The sabbath cults - making an idol of the sabbath.

[chubbena]

It's not forbidden to rest on any day - I'll guarantee that those sabbath cults are "resting" 2 days a week and generally working five. Whereas the law stated on six days "do thy work".

But that is all besides the point - the law was given to Israel as a nation, they were required under the covenant to rest on the sabbath. But it all become a moot point when we read that the old covenant was ready to disappear:

(Heb 8:13 KJV) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Why are you calling those who choose to rest on Sabbath a cult? Don't you believe Christians have freedom or when it comes to Sabbath rest we don't?
You have ignored the fact that the new covenant is, the law to be written in His people's heart so that they may follow His commandments wholeheartedly. The reason? His people was not able to put His commandments in their heart.

 

[chubbena]

Don't kid yourself. Jesus’ taking authority over the Sabbath both wrests it from the legal framework in which it previously stood and realizes the rest which God’s people were always intended to enjoy. In all three Synoptics, the subsequent miracle is an example of what Jesus’ lordship of the Sabbath will mean in practice: people delivered from the shadow of death and restored into the unblemished image of God.

The Sabbath only features in Paul’s writings negatively. For the Galatians to observe it as if they were still under the Mosaic Law rather than New Covenant moral law would be to descend into gospel-denying slavery (Gal. 4:9–11); for the Colossians to observe it as part of a syncretistic system would be equally fatal (Col. 2:16).

For the Mosaic Law belonged to an earlier era, and since the coming of Christ it is no longer binding (Col. 2:17). Even Sabbath observance ‘for the Lord’ was tolerated only for the sake of those whose faith was weak (Rom. 14:1–12). In short, those in Christ are beyond the jurisdiction of the Old Testament Mosaic Law which has been fulfilled in Jesus.

As God’s perfect human, Jesus lived the Sabbath day for God, releasing his fellow humans from bondage and striving for salvation under the law (e.g. Mosaic Law), bringing them into a new spiritual rebirth in which the moral law of God is written on their heart, bringing them into blessing, and at the last entering Himself into God’s rest.

Ultimately, as Lord of the Sabbath, Jesus made it possible for others to follow him into that rest. This means that the Christian’s task is no longer to keep the Sabbath (Jesus has done that already) as if they were still under the Mosaic Law but rather to believe in Christ and obey Him.

In its final setting, then, the fourth commandment is no longer a commandment for God’s people, but its intent remains. The ‘law of Christ’ anticipates rest by prescribing belief, but now rest has been realized and will have its fullest expression in the gathering of genuine Christians who will reign with the Lamb for ever in the new creation (Rev. 22:3–6).

One probably has forgotten that in the beginning was the Word... and the Word becomes flesh. By saying what you are saying, you are saying the Word ate His word i.e. He has changed but He changes not.

 

[JaumeJ]

Common sense tells any who are within their wits that being told obeying the commandments is wrong in light of the replacement tradition of man being correct, those attempting to level that accusation are the source of cultism. I believe my last post deals with this fairly well, here it is pasted below.

Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

I ask many, how do you expect to be in good standing with our Savior if you do not believe Moses and the prophets?

How can you say you believe Yeshua, Jesus, if you do not even know His Word from the beginning.

Read all of the Word; It really is important.

God bless all in Yeshua, Jesus, amen.

 

[JaumeJ]

Post Datum to my post #23.

Why would anyone believe it a cult to honor what the Father has done for all mankind in creating all that is by maintaining the order of time according to His deeds and Word.

If the majority prefer to change the seventh day to the first day of creation, this is their faith, but I would not dare attempt to tell the Maker of all that is that I believe His day of rest is the first day in the order of creation.

Think about that. Tell the Father how you have changed His order.

 

[Grandpa]

MATTTHEW 5:17-18-19.

Think not that I Am come to destroy the Law, or the prophets; I Am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law,
till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so,
he shall be called the least in The Kingdom of Heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven....

Galatians 3:23-29
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

If you want to see what it means to keep the commandments see Matthew 5. If you find yourself falling short of Matthew 5 then see Matthew 11:28-30

 

[KohenMatt]

Not one of these sabbath cults can explain how a Christan can be dead to the law and alive to it at the same time by attempting to keep it.

Neither can they explain how they can be married to Christ and Moses at the same time - ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another. This is either bigamy or adultery - take your pick.

That's a bit of a presumptuous statement.

Regardless, I can.

In Jesus, you're dead to the Law in regards to it affecting your salvation.

In Jesus, you are still called to walk obediently to His commands without fearing that it affects your salvation either positively or negatively.

 

[KohenMatt]

I find it interesting that very few people who speak against following the Law, cite the Law itself and God's position on it. If we are to understand a Christian's relationship to the Law, it would be a good idea to look at what that Law actually says first instead of trying to interpret it based on someone else's commentary.

 

[KohenMatt]

It's not forbidden to rest on any day - I'll guarantee that those sabbath cults are "resting" 2 days a week and generally working five. Whereas the law stated on six days "do thy work".

Again a very presumptuous statement.

I rest from my normal everyday work 1 day a week. Sundays are my day to work around the house as I was working the other 5 days at my job.

In reality, I "work" 7 days a week when you consider that as a pastor, I work double-duty on the Sabbath.

 

[Grandpa]

That's a bit of a presumptuous statement.

Regardless, I can.

In Jesus, you're dead to the Law in regards to it affecting your salvation.

In Jesus, you are still called to walk obediently to His commands without fearing that it affects your salvation either positively or negatively.

Galatians 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 5:1-5
[SUP]1[/SUP]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

You are confused about what being in Christ is. You are double minded, attempting to mix your works at the law with grace. Common mistake.

 

[crossnote]

So when did good become bad? You say to observe or stand up for the laws are legalistic, so were they legalistic when God gave them to Moses? Most of the time when God asked us to do something and I include the 10 commandments with this - these laws were for our own good.

The Sabbath was given as a special day that was blessed, hallowed, a sign between us and God and a time to rest and come and spend quality time with our creator God. The food laws were given for health purposes, and God asked us to dress modestly. All of these laws including the 10 were given from God to us out of love and if we observe them the 10 for sure it shows our love to God and our fellow man.

So how is it bad to eat healthy, to not murder, to not lie , not steal, not commit adultery, to obey our parents, to love God with all our hearts, not to put an idol before God, dress modestly, not swear, not covet what our neighbors have? And how does this become legalistic to not want to do these bad things toward others and to honor God and Remember His Sabbath day like He asked us to? So again I ask when did good become bad and legalistic?

You don't read do you? You just post out of a knee jerk reaction.
I said ''if it is FORCED'', otherwise fine rest on the Sabbath all you want. I

 

[KohenMatt]

Galatians 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 5:1-5
[SUP]1[/SUP]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

You are confused about what being in Christ is. You are double minded, attempting to mix your works at the law with grace. Common mistake.

If I were talking about my relationship between the Law and justification/righteousness/salvation/grace, your comment would be valid.

But I wasn't.

Therefore your's isn't.

 

[Grandpa]

I find it interesting that very few people who speak against following the Law, cite the Law itself and God's position on it. If we are to understand a Christian's relationship to the Law, it would be a good idea to look at what that Law actually says first instead of trying to interpret it based on someone else's commentary.

This is what the Law says;

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

This isn't accomplished by your keeping of feasts and sabbath days. Its not accomplished by your work at the Law. All of your work at the law is contrary to the working of the Spirit.

Romans 8:5-10
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[crossnote]

the scripture doesn't say that, but some people do.

yes, some people can't stand the concept of freedom in Christ. It evokes images of orgies and mass murders.

 

[KohenMatt]

I agree with you completely. The Law or the works of it cannot make me perfect.

 

[secularhermit]

Common sense tells any who are within their wits that being told obeying the commandments is wrong in light of the replacement tradition of man being correct, those attempting to level that accusation are the source of cultism. I believe my last post deals with this fairly well, here it is pasted below.

Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

I ask many, how do you expect to be in good standing with our Savior if you do not believe Moses and the prophets?

How can you say you believe Yeshua, Jesus, if you do not even know His Word from the beginning.

Read all of the Word; It really is important.

God bless all in Yeshua, Jesus, amen.

May I add these?:

Mat_24:20 Pray that it will not be winter or a day of worship when you flee. (GW)

Mat_24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day... (KJV)

Luk_6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

It became bad when people like yourself began to equate an ancient ceremonial law of ancient Judaism with God's moral universal law (a logical fallacy in Christian epistemology) and tell them they need to religiously practice an ancient Judaist ceremonial law in order to please God and live a holy life which is legalism and discards a measure of what Jesus accomplished.

You're greatly misinformed and seeking to mislead others into the error you yourself were misled into.

Read: Is the Sabbath a Moral Law or a Ceremonial Law? | Grace Communion International

Now please be honest, which Sabbath cult do you belong to? Is it the Seventh Day Adventist religious cult?

So when did good become bad? You say to observe or stand up for the laws are legalistic, so were they legalistic when God gave them to Moses? Most of the time when God asked us to do something and I include the 10 commandments with this - these laws were for our own good.

Jesus is Lord also of the Sabbath and Psalm 119 is mostly about His law. It pains me that so many people want to toss it out. Jesus came to fulfill not to destroy and He did for us what we can't do for ourselves, but He did not throw it out/away.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

That's a bit of a presumptuous statement.

Regardless, I can.

In Jesus, you're dead to the Law in regards to it affecting your salvation.

In Jesus, you are still called to walk obediently to His commands without fearing that it affects your salvation either positively or negatively.

The law was never about salvation:

(Gal 3:21 KJV) Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

"In Jesus, you're dead to the Law in regards to it affecting your salvation" - dead to the Law means dead - you've added "affecting your salvation".

And you've ignored the context:

(Rom 7:4 KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Are you "married" to Christ or Moses?

(2 Cor 11:2 KJV) For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

(Rom 7:1 KJV) Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

(Rom 7:2 KJV) For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

(Rom 7:3 KJV) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

The Old Testament ceremonial law is viewed as a bondage from which the Christian gospel of grace as God’s gift frees a person through faith in the New Testament. The classic text is the epistle to the Galatians, written to dissuade Christian converts from succumbing to the attempts of Judaizers to get them to adhere again to the Old Testament ceremonial law as a necessary part of salvation.

“For freedom Christ has set us free,” writes Paul; “stand fast therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery” (Gal 5:1 RSV). Christ was “born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law” (Gal 4:4–5). To “rely on works of the law” for salvation is to be “under a curse” (3:10). Similarly, to place oneself under the Old Testament ceremonial law is “slavery,” while choosing “the Jerusalem above is free” (Gal 4:24–25 RSV).

Paul specifically rejects “works of Law” for salvation-historical reasons. “Works of Law” are not excluded because they cannot be fulfilled nor because they lead to meritorious works-righteousness. The coming of Jesus marks the turn of an era; the era of separation between Jews and Gentiles has ended.

Paul argued that by parity of reasoning those seeking to return to the ceremonial law would need to keep the whole Mosaic law for salvation; but this would be seeking justification by the law in any event, and such a quest would mean a falling away from grace and from Christ (Gal. 5:2–4).

The Christian, Jew or Gentile, Paul maintained, is free from all need to perform works of law for acceptance, for as a believer in Christ he is fully accepted already (Gal. 3:28f.), as the gift of the Spirit to him proves (Gal. 3:2f., 14; 4:6; 5:18).

As Biblical PhD scholars Packer, Wood, Marshall, Millard, and Wiseman state, There is no reason why a Gentile convert should burden himself with Mosaic ceremonies. The redeeming work of Christ has freed him completely from the need to seek salvation through law (Gal. 3:13; 4:5; 5:1). His task now is, first, to guard his God-given liberty against any who would tell him that faith in Christ alone is not enough to save him (Gal. 5:1) and, second, to put his liberty to the best use by letting the Spirit lead him into responsible fulfillment of the law of love (Gal. 5:13ff.).

Now we strive toward agape love and God's holiness (rooted in his universal morality) rather than the ceremonial tenants of the Mosaic Law... an old covenant God once had with the ancient nation of Israel which Christ fulfilled and that is no longer binding.

Confusing the ceremonial law of the old covenant with God's universal morality is fallacious.

Read: Is the Sabbath Required for Christians Today? | Grace Communion International

 

[KohenMatt]

The law was never about salvation:

(Gal 3:21 KJV) Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

"In Jesus, you're dead to the Law in regards to it affecting your salvation" - dead to the Law means dead - you've added "affecting your salvation".

And you've ignored the context:

(Rom 7:4 KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Are you "married" to Christ or Moses?

(2 Cor 11:2 KJV) For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

(Rom 7:1 KJV) Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

(Rom 7:2 KJV) For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

(Rom 7:3 KJV) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Exactly. The law was never about salvation and Paul's apparent Anti-law comments were addressed to thos who thought it was.

I'm married to Jesus and saved by His merciful grace.

Nothing else.

 

[Larry_Stotle]

May I add these?:

Mat_24:20 Pray that it will not be winter or a day of worship when you flee. (GW)

Mat_24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day... (KJV)

Luk_6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

You may add them, but you need to understand who the audience WAS to whom this was addressed:

(Mat 24:34 KJV) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

"This generation" refers to to those that heard Jesus - he was warning of the upcoming destruction of the temple and the sack of Jerusalem in 70AD.

It is has nothing to do with keeping the sabbath - those fleeing the "wrath to come" in the 1st century would have difficulty getting provisions on the sabbath in Jerusalem/Judea to assist in their flight.