The Second Coming of Jesus

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 4, 2014
1,849
9
0
#21
how do you explain what Jesus said to his disciples? That some of them would not die before his return, and that their generation would not pass away before all the signs and Jesus' return were fulfilled?


Matt 16:27....,and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

It sounds to me Jesus is talking about the judgement upon His return and their punishment of the second death of eternal damnation.
Those who are worthy and overcome, when they die according to the flesh, it is as Jesus said. They will see Him return for them and be in paradise like the thief. Those who do not overcome will die and perish, only to be resurrected when the day comes when that generation is transformed.

Remember the wages of sin is death. If anyone still sees himself as a sinner, then that reward when He comes is what you worked for.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
17
38
#22
In Acts 1:9-11, the angels announced that Christ will return the same way He departed, which is visibly and gloriously. Hebrews 9:28 says that Christ will appear a second time – it will undoubtedly be a literal appearance. His first advent was to sacrifice Himself for the sins of many, while during His second advent believers will be saved via the resurrection of life. Also, read 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 concerning the parousia and resurrection.

Matthew 26
[SUP]59 [/SUP]Now the chief priests and the whole Council kept trying to obtain false testimony against Jesus, so that they might put Him to death. [SUP]60 [/SUP]They did not find any, even though many false witnesses came forward. But later on two came forward, [SUP]61 [/SUP]and said, “This man stated, ‘I am able to destroy the temple of God and to rebuild it in three days.’” [SUP]62 [/SUP]The high priest stood up and said to Him, “Do You not answer? What is it that these men are testifying against You?” [SUP]63 [/SUP]But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, “I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God.” [SUP]64 [/SUP]Jesus *said to him, “You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

The first (Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power) is confirmed in scripture (multiple times)....as for the second...., “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.” I know that Jesus' Word is good and that the entire statement was achieved - yes, in the first century. I don't need to see the fulfillment written on paper to know that Jesus accomplished what He said He was going to accomplish. However it happened, it happened! I personally believe it literally, physically happened, but if it was God's Will for it to only be spiritually fulfilled, then so be it.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
17
38
#23
Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
(Rev 1:7)

Can't get more visible than that.
Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
(Rev 1:7)


Yeah, I know, they will see Him after they have been resurrected?...or did it happen before they died?!!
 
Jul 21, 2014
37
0
0
#24
Jesus is coming soon. At the end of your day or life He will come. Don't look for Him over there or over here, but that He will appear the same way He departed the earth. Through death and the veil. Remember the kingdom is within.

Now as Paul stated, there will be a generation who will not sleep or experience death, but will be transformed. But for all, whether they go by death or transformation, it will be in the twinkling of an eye.

We've all experienced this "twinkling" in our births. It wasn't like any of us can was around 6000 years ago but as long as we knew, we have been here.
So was Paul correct and Jesus was not. Jesus said there will be some standing here who will not die before he returns. He says all these things will happen before THIS generation passes. Not just whichever generation happens to be alive at the time. That completely undermines the words of Jesus.
 
Jul 21, 2014
37
0
0
#25
how do you explain what Jesus said to his disciples? That some of them would not die before his return, and that their generation would not pass away before all the signs and Jesus' return were fulfilled?


Matt 16:27....,and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

It sounds to me Jesus is talking about the judgement upon His return and their punishment of the second death of eternal damnation.
You also heave to read verse 16:26. Christ will come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and reward every man according to his works. IF he is talking about his return, it still says there are some standing there who will not tast death until his return. This doesn't explain anything. It says Christ will come in the glory of God the father, with his angels, and every man is rewarded according to his deeds. Jesus will come in his kingdom, and some of the men he was currently speaking to would be alive to see it happen. They are dead now, so either Jesus did already come back, and the reward for every man's deed was the destruction of Jerusalem, or he lied and he isn't coming back while they are alive.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#26
But even this verse seems to indicaate that this would happen soon after Christ died. Even those who pierced him would see his return. Those who pierced him have been dead for centuries.
They see Him in judgment just when EVERY knee shall bow EVERY tongue confess.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#27
Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.
(Rev 1:7)


Yeah, I know, they will see Him after they have been resurrected?...or did it happen before they died?!!
see post #26.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#28
So was Paul correct and Jesus was not. Jesus said there will be some standing here who will not die before he returns. He says all these things will happen before THIS generation passes. Not just whichever generation happens to be alive at the time. That completely undermines the words of Jesus.
Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Fulfilled next chapter ...Mount of transfiguration...some=Peter James, John.

You keep clinging to the preterist view it will land you into a pile of confusion.
 
Jul 21, 2014
37
0
0
#29
Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Fulfilled next chapter ...Mount of transfiguration...some=Peter James, John.

You keep clinging to the preterist view it will land you into a pile of confusion.
This is not fulfilled in the next chapter. In chapter 17 Christ transforms himself and shines bright and white, and Moses and Elias talk with them. In what way does that fulfill Christ coming in the glory of his father with his angels and repaying every man according to his works; coming in his kingdom.
 
Jul 21, 2014
37
0
0
#30
They see Him in judgment just when EVERY knee shall bow EVERY tongue confess.
Scriptural references please. I can't discuss unless I know which passages you are referencing and in what context. I don't want to waste time and thread space arguing against something you didn't actually mean.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#31
This is not fulfilled in the next chapter. In chapter 17 Christ transforms himself and shines bright and white, and Moses and Elias talk with them. In what way does that fulfill Christ coming in the glory of his father with his angels and repaying every man according to his works; coming in his kingdom.
I was answering the mt 16:28 passage. Verse 27 is not necessarily the same event as v.28.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#32
Scriptural references please. I can't discuss unless I know which passages you are referencing and in what context. I don't want to waste time and thread space arguing against something you didn't actually mean.
Every knee means every knee and every tongue means tongue. It did not happen in 70ad just as 'every eye shall see him' did not happen in 70 ad...

Isaiah 45:22-23 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
 
Jul 21, 2014
37
0
0
#33
"10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."
I don't think this is talking about when Jesus comes back to Earth. It think it means that when every person dies, regardless of when that is, they will stand before Christ and be judges whether or not they get to Heaven. This doesn't have to be connected to the second coming.
Isaiah 45 - "22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
23 By myself I have sworn;
from my mouth has gone out in righteousness
a word that shall not return:
‘To me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear allegiance.’"
This has nothing to do with the second coming either. God just says that he has sent out his word and it will not return. As it he isn't taking it back, it will be true forever. This doesn't mean that the second coming won't occur until after every knee bows and evert tongue confesses to God. This is just said to be something that will happen eventually. Presumably, after each person dies, in Heaven when they are face to face with God being judged.
 
Jul 21, 2014
37
0
0
#34
I was answering the mt 16:28 passage. Verse 27 is not necessarily the same event as v.28.
It seems awfully strange that Jesus would say something as important as "I will return in the glory of my father with his angels and repay every man according to his works," and then not follow up on that. You really think the next verse has nothing to do with this one? Even if it didn't, how does Matt 17 describe the diciples seeing the Son of Man come in his kingdom? They just see Jesus radiating a white light and speak to Moses and Elias. They do not see Jesus coming in his kingdom.
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#35
It seems to me that the Bible indicates many times that Jesus was going to return in the first century, during the generation of his disciples. It is my opinion, that if Jesus hasn't come back yet, he isn't going to. A lot of people think that Jesus returned in 70 AD, and that Revalation foretold the destruction of Jerusalem as an avenging of the apostles and prophets who were martyred and persecuted. This isn't just a gut feeling or something. It is backed by scripture, which I will provide. Now, I realize some strongly disagree with this, which is why I am posting it on a forum, but please, let me know why (biblically) you think I'm wrong, without throwing around insults. I realize it is a passionate subjuct, but try to keep the enthusiasm positive :)

The scriptural evidence...
Matthew 10:23
“23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.”
-Jesus tells his disciples to preach the word in Israel, and to just move on to the next town if they were persecuted, because Jesus would come before they had been to every town in Israel
------------------------------------------
Matthew 16:27-28
“27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
-Jesus says to his disciples that some of the would not die before Jesus “comes in his Kingdom”
------------------------------------------
Matt. 24:29-34
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.”
-Unless Jesus was lying, he had to come back, and all of those things had to happen before the generation he was speaking to died out, so assuming the disciples were the same age as Jesus give or take 10 years, in 50 years or less, assuming they live to the generous age of 80.
------------------------------------------
Acts 3:19-21 & Matt 5:17-18
19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out, 20 that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, 21 whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all the things about which God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets long ago.”….”17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
-This is a more obscure piece of evidence, but could indicate that if all of the prophecies were not yet fulfilled then we would still be under the Old covenant law, which we are not (some would disagree with this I know, if that is the case, just ignore this as evidence). Peter says in Acts 3:18 that Jesus would return when the prophecies were fulfilled.
------------------------------------------
1 Cor. 7:28-31
“29 What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.”
-Paul tells people to start worrying about nothing but God, because the world isn’t going to last much longer. this was said 1900 years ago
------------------------------------------
Hebrews 9:28, 10:37
“28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.”...”37 For,“Yet a little while,
and the coming one will come and will not delay”
-1900 years ago it was said that Christ would come a second time, and the coming one would not delay. He would come in a little while.
------------------------------------------
James 5:7-9
“7 Be patient, therefore, brothers, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient about it, until it receives the early and the late rains. 8 You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.”
-James also says 1900 years ago that the coming of Jesus is at hand, and the Judge is at the door
------------------------------------------
1 John 2:15-18
“15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride of life—is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever. 18 Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.”
The author claims in his letter, to the people he is writing to, that it is the last hour. This was addressed to those living 1900 years ago. He also said there have been many antichrists, so those waiting for one today have missed it apparently.
------------------------------------------
Revelation: many times
1:1”The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,”
1:3“ Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.”
10:6”and swore by him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and what is in it, the earth and what is in it, and the sea and what is in it, that there would be no more delay,”
22:10“And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.
22:7“And behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”
22:12“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.”
22:20”He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!”

Why are you confusing yourself with all these bible verses when Jesus made it so simple with one Apostle taking down His info? The Book of Revelation is the very last Book in the bible and it is "last" for a divine purpose. The Book of Revelation is self-explanatory & by far the best source of info as to what happen before His return. Many posters make a very big mistake when they tried to mix the other Books with the Book of Revelation. In essence, the Book of Revelation is the "only" one you need to know what Jesus is telling us what will happen in the last days before His return.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#36
Scripture does teach an earthly reign...

Isa 2:2 It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and shall be lifted up above the hills; and all the nations shall flow to it,
Isa 2:3 and many peoples shall come, and say: "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths." For out of Zion shall go the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide disputes for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.

Mic 4:1 It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established as the highest of the mountains, and it shall be lifted up above the hills; and peoples shall flow to it,
Mic 4:2 and many nations shall come, and say: "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob, that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths." For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Mic 4:3 He shall judge between many peoples, and shall decide for strong nations far away; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore;
Mic 4:4 but they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree, and no one shall make them afraid, for the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken.
Mic 4:5 For all the peoples walk each in the name of its god, but we will walk in the name of the LORD our God forever and ever.
Those prophecies have been fulfilled, and ought to be interpreted figuratively. The mountain of the house of the LORD symbolise the church/Christ’s spiritual kingdom He established at His first coming. The mountain of the house of the LORD being "exalted above the hills" refers to the supremacy of His kingdom - Daniel 2:44 and Daniel 7:14 speak of this too. Christ’s kingdom arrived with dominion in the first century. The rest of Micah 4:1 says “…and people shall flow unto it”. In Acts 1:8, Jesus told His apostles that they will receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon them, and will witness in all nations (Jerusalem, Judaea, Samaria, and the uttermost parts of the earth), then after Pentecost we see many nations flowing into the church through the apostles disseminating the gospel. Therefore, the passages above do not teach an earthly reign. Rather, Jesus is presently reigning over His spiritual kingdom.
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#37
Okay, thanks for clarifying. Is there reason to think that there was not a visible second coming in 70 AD? There are written accounts from Roman history about the destruction of Jerusalem that mention what sounds like it could have been.

""In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightening flash from the clouds lit up the temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure." (Tacitus, First Century Roman Historian - Histories, v.13). Before Jerusalem's final demolition, Titus took a survey of the city and its fortifications; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the Almighty Himself. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?""
There are also answers from preterists concerning Acts 1:9-11. (The following are not my own thoughts, credit goes to the author at ecclesia.org)
"The word for "see" is often used not of sight, but of perception. For example, in John 14:9, Jesus says, "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father." Jesus also said, "every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life" (John 6:40). Now, if you use the same interpretation here as most do in Mat.24:30; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:27, Acts 1:9-10, and Rev.1:7, only those who saw Jesus with their literal eyes could be saved! We use the word "see" in the same manner, with a figurative intent, when we say, "I see!". As Paul wrote in Ephesians 1:18, "The eyes of your understanding being enlightened."In verses 23-26 of Matthew 24, Jesus seems to stress that his coming will not be a physical bodily coming. If someone says, "Here is Christ, or there," they were not to believe them. If someone said, "He is in the desert or he is in the secret chamber," they were not to believe them. Why? If His coming was to be physical and bodily, why would someone not be able to say, "He is over there?" They were not to believe that because His coming would not be physical and bodily and yet it would be plainly seen."

Even if you reject the explanation given by preterists (I can't really say I'm convinced one way or the other, so I leave that up to you entirely), how do you explain what Jesus said to his disciples? That some of them would not die before his return, and that their generation would not pass away before all the signs and Jesus' return were fulfilled?
Matthew 16:28 is not a reference to the second coming of Christ. I reject the full-preterism idea that the second coming was fulfilled in 70AD; there are no documentations that Jesus physically returned and a general bodily resurrection occurred. There will be a resurrection, which Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4. Full-preterism is a resurfaced Hymenaeus and Philetus heresy. Partial preterism view, however, is correct as it maintains a future second coming.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
113
#38
The OP said revelation foretold the destruction of Jerusalem which happened in 70ad/
Funny, most scholars date the writing of Revelation in95 ad. You are putting your eggs in the wrong basket with a 65ad writing of Revelation.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#39
If the early church creeds have any merit; e.g., the Apostles' Creed,
as reflecting what the apostles taught,
they state a future second coming of Jesus,
and they were composed after 70 AD.
 
2

2Thewaters

Guest
#40
There is no help for unbelief in the word of God.
That is unpardonable sin.