the ten commandments

unobtrusive · Oct 9, 2017

Mine also, and endurance is a big part of love.

Are not two witnesses required so every word can be established. I'm sure you've read that. If there are not at least two, and up to three, how would we know we have these writings of Paul interpreted correctly right? He clearly says what it is or isn't but how do we identify what love is or isn't, if we don't know how to do it according to the instructions given?

This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
(2 Corinthians 13:1)

Jesus is the Word. Let the Word correctly define the love of God. It's not wise to separate the Word of God from the beginning from the Word that became flesh.

"at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.
(Deuteronomy 19:15b)

The definitive "spiritual" instructions of how to love God's way are given previous to this scripture reference enabling us to "love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul," God's way, not our own interpretation thereof. (Deuteronomy 13:3b)

In the same manner, the definitive principles of how to love your neighbour as yourself are given in this scripture reference, enabling us to "love thy neighbour as thyself," the right way, not according to the way we might accidentally interpret it by having only one witness. (Leviticus 19:1-18)

Then any reference in the New Testament can be compared with the Old Testament, making sure we have it right with two or three witnesses.

And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. (Acts 17:10-11)

Just like us. We hear Paul, but it is more noble to confirm his writings by the scriptures. All they had back then were the law and the prophets. The New Testament had not been published yet. We are now better off, having both the first and second writings of God's perfect love defined.

hornetguy · Oct 9, 2017

Oh, come on now.... seriously?

You're telling me that every time I read a scripture, I need two or three "witnesses" to affirm what I read and understand?

Because, without two or three "witnesses", I am liable to mis-interpret what I read? What purpose is the indwelling Spirit then? Was Jesus joking when he told us the Spirit would be our constant companion, helping us to understand the word of God?

You are taking a scripture WAY out of context to try to "prove" your viewpoint. Way off the mark...

crossnote · Oct 9, 2017

followjesus said:

The moral code as reflected in the 10 Commandments has been written on the hearts of those born again.

"Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:31-33)

When we are led by the Spirit, we worship Him and love our neighbors, when we run after false ways and/or hurt our neighbors/brethren we come under conviction by the same Spirit.

Grandpa · Oct 9, 2017

crossnote said:

The moral code as reflected in the 10 Commandments has been written on the hearts of those born again.

"Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:31-33)

When we are led by the Spirit, we worship Him and love our neighbors, when we run after false ways and/or hurt our neighbors/brethren we come under conviction by the same Spirit.

Its more of a spiritual code but I suppose we could call it a moral code.

Although I wonder what resting on saturdays has to do with morality?

Haven't seen you for a while, crossnote... Glad you're back.

unobtrusive · Oct 9, 2017

hornetguy said:

Use scripture to witness the truth of itself, both old and new... "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." (1 Corinthians 2:13) Therein you have the two witnesses, comparing spiritual with spiritual.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Timothy 3:16)

It's not hard.

hornetguy · Oct 9, 2017

unobtrusive said:

Use scripture to witness the truth of itself, both old and new... "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." (1 Corinthians 2:13) Therein you have the two witnesses, comparing spiritual with spiritual.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Timothy 3:16)

It's not hard.

Oh, I agree, it's not.

I simply don't understand why you are striving to make it so....

crossnote · Oct 9, 2017

Grandpa said:

I supposre it would have to do with not calling God a liar but rather rest in His provision.

followjesus · Oct 11, 2017

Nehemiah6 said:

the ten commandments are both a pattern for the Law, and a pattern for the Gospel. in the Law they frame the categories of morality, you have the sections on sexual sin, on adultery and idol worship, you have the section on civil penalties for things like stealing, bearing false witness ect.... the ten commandments frame the categories, they are Gods Morality, they are whats right and wrong.

the thing is no one can find salvation in obeying the Law of Moses. it was never meant to offer eternal Life, thats why eternal Life isnt mentioned in the law, but is revealed with clarity in the Gospel, and scarcely mentioned in the prophets speaking forward of Christ. all of the Life, is in the Gospel. in the Judgements of Jesus Christ. so many fear the Law, when it is meant to work righteousness in man.

Jesus Gospel teaches us to remove the Lust in our heart......so that adultery, fornication, sexual sin....those things will be kept if one obeys Jesus teaching on Lust because the ;ust is the issue that causes man to do the things forbidden by the Law. Jesus teaches sinners, How to obey God through the Heart. remove the Lust, the Greed, the selfishness, the pride, the Doubt from the Heart and you then Have " do we then Nullify the Law on the basis of faith??? God forbid! we establish the Law"

The Law was given to those with no Holy spirit to teach them, it is a restraint upon sinners. the Gospel is the Life, the spirit that makes the Law what it really is, Holy, righteous and Good in the sight of the New man, rather than seeing it through the eyes of the Old sinful man like they did in the desert. they were old creations corrupt with the nature of sin, so the law appeared as an oppression to thier nature, itwas as paul says " contrary to man, it stood opposed to us" to a sinner the law is a death sentance.

to the Born again child of God, the Law is good and right and faithfully so. it is the ways of God the Father meaning the moral codes of conduct, they are what mans nature should be, we shouldnt want to do the things God said are evil, Our nature should look Like the Law. there are 2 perceptions of the Law. the Old man, without the spirit....and the new man, born of the spirit of Christ, through the Word of truth. One sees the law as oppressive rules meant to restrain.....the other sees the Law as the ways of eternal Life, the ways of the Heavens, the ways of God meant for our good to teach us How to Live forever.

the ten commandments are upheld, and taught in both the first part of the covenant to Israel, and the fullness of the covenant, found in Jesus Christ. the commandments are eternally valid

hornetguy · Oct 11, 2017

Absolutely. But, they are not the be-all, end-all, final word on how we are to live our lives.

They are a bare-bones list of things we are to do, or not do... not a checklist of exact limits or allowances.

Otherwise, Jesus, instead of saying "you have heard it said...." he would have said, "here... follow these 10 commandments"

followjesus · Oct 11, 2017

hornetguy said:

Absolutely. But, they are not the be-all, end-all, final word on how we are to live our lives. "

think about what you are saying there friend. were talking about the ten commandments. thou shalt not Kill <<< thats a pretty solid rule to not cross...to live By. thou shalt have No other Gods.....again pretty sound doctrine for a christian wouldnt you think?

thou shalt not commit adultery << any married person should be able to endorse that rule to live by....it will never be okay to Lie, cheat, steal, Kill, covet, have different gods, bear false witness.....dishonor parents ect. we have to have an ultimate Law of like you are saying there what is right, and what is wrong. what is good, what is evil. the law establishes that, good and evil. it is when you come to the Gospel that you find Life. the commandments dont simply go away or anything like that if thats what the idea is, those are the dovenant framework, of our behavioral expectations.

in the new covenant people say " just Love it fulfills the law and prophets" they say this as if it replaces the Law and prophets when in fact " Love thy neighbor as thyself" is a brief summary statement when One obeys the commandments. if im Loving my neighbor i wont be stealing from Him, Lying to Him, commiting adultery with His wife, d=bearing false witness ect....

Love upholds the Law, the covenant Law, the righteousnes of the Law. Jesus never said a word that would make the ten commandments invalid, nor did the apostles. to Love" is to keeop the commandments because Love is not just a feeling, it is an action. if any9one will obey the Gospel, the Law will be kept nearly effortlessly is the thing, the gospel is the spirit, the Law is the flesh. there is no condemnation in the commandments, they are Moral Judgements of God almighty and mostly they affect us. they are put in place to protect Gods People from Murder, divorce, adultery, false witness born against them, from robbery and burglary, larseny, theft and extortion.....if you notice the Majority of the Law, deals with How One person treats another person.

its not as if God made all these arbitrary rules to oppress us its Just right and wrong it is what should shape our consciences and result in good judgements on our part. its simplke basic stuff really dont steal from Each other....dont Lie to each other....if you get married dont cheat on your spouse or with someone elses.....Honor God as the Only God because ....He is. dont bear false witness and say you saw someone do something when they didnt....you know what Im sayin?

The Law is good, right and true, it is always good and useful for growing and training in righteousness. im not talking about the ordinances and priestly sacrificial Laws of service, those are all fulfilled in Jesus, im simply saying what is morally right for Israel 3000 years ago...is still Morally right for a christian Gentile, thats what the Law is, its right, and wrong, Good and evil. thou shalt Not do this...thou shall do this instead.

the Gospel is where we receive the Life of the spirit in order that we see the Law for what it is, good, right, true, Gods Ways and judgements regarding all things Human behavior. we are suppose to change inside from the Gospel, that should change the perception of the covenant Law of God because it is truly Good, right, and just.

hornetguy · Oct 11, 2017

Yes, I agree the 10 commandments are important...no doubt.

"you shall not kill"..... ok, I won't kill you, but I'll absolutely despise you, and have no love for you in my heart? I'm still "ok", right?

"you shall not commit adultery".... fine.. I won't have sex with another woman. But I will walk around drooling over other women, thinking about all the possible sexual things we could be doing with each other.... but, hey... I'm still ok, because I have not broken one of those all-inclusive 10 Commandments.... right?

Living like that is exactly what Jesus taught AGAINST... trying to follow only the letter of the law, and not the intent...

followjesus · Oct 11, 2017

hornetguy said:

Im not sure anyone is striving to make anything Hard. theres alot of scripture in the Bible to discuss in a forum like this. No one is saying that salvation is found in the commandments, salvation is found in Christ, which is where the commandments Lead One they Lead to christ, and Christ quickens the dead, and the One made alive By Christ is able to see this and agree

1 john 5:2=3 "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous."

you see the commandments and Godly Love go Hand in Hand, the reason we can " Keep them and they arent greivous" is because of the Life we find in the Gospel, the circumcision of the sinfulness in us. the removal of Lust, the removal of greed, the removal of pride, the removal of self reliance, the removal of selfishness of all kinds through His teachings, and the finished product is a person with a heart that walks in the commandments naturally because they are now inscribed on clean Hearts and minds in Christ written on Our Hearts by promise of God. the Human conscience should be mapped exactly Likethe ten commandments, if Human consciences were shaped that way as was our design, there would be no murder, rape, divorce, Lies. gossip. greed ect.....

we should have on our Hearts those Basic Laws of Human Kind, dont Kill, steal, Lie, cheat, honor the Vow of marriage you take before God, Have Only the One True God.....those should be on every christians mind and Heart to the Point they arent offensive and People dont have a reason to argue thier validitiy. the Word of God is Meant to become part of Our Hearts and Minds, in order to lead us , teach us, enlighten us, exalt us and save us. in order to change once fallen sinners, to those who act and work in Gods Will because that is Who they are made so by the Word they believed

followjesus · Oct 11, 2017

hornetguy said:

thats where the Holy spirit comes in though, that is the difference in the two covenants ultimately, One offers a new Life, free from the condemnation of the Old. what you are saying is sort of the same thing Im saying. it is Jesus that teaches us to keep the Law, he does this by remaking us. with the Holy spirit comes new perception. i thiunk we are in agreement actually. Jesus teaches One to forgive quickly, hold no ill against anyone, if you find unforgiveness in your heart toward someone, deal with that. the result of obeying what Jesus is teaching, will remove the thing that causes us to have enough rage or jealousy, or greed or Lust to Kill each other.

the Gospel is the answer for A sinner, to change into an obedient child of God, who finds no difficulty with the Law and its morality. the Gospel is the circumcision God promised of the Heart, its why Jesus teaches about the inner things, and teaches that " make a dish clean inside and it will be outside as well." clean the heart of Lust and things Like Jesus teaches...the Law will be kept in doing that, and it wont be a sinner trying to keeop a good law, but someone being renewed in the Knoeldge of God and Having thier conscience shaped By His Word of truth and spirit which is the Gospel.

but this op was really simple, the comkmandments are valid and will always remain sound christian doctrine, necassary christian doctrine. Not sayong they offer salvation, but they are useful in every way and should be written on Our Hearts any ways as part of the new covenant

hornetguy · Oct 11, 2017

followjesus said:

thats where the Holy spirit comes in though, that is the difference in the two covenants ultimately, One offers a new Life, free from the condemnation of the Old. what you are saying is sort of the same thing Im saying. it is Jesus that teaches us to keep the Law, he does this by remaking us. with the Holy spirit comes new perception. i thiunk we are in agreement actually. Jesus teaches One to forgive quickly, hold no ill against anyone, if you find unforgiveness in your heart toward someone, deal with that. the result of obeying what Jesus is teaching, will remove the thing that causes us to have enough rage or jealousy, or greed or Lust to Kill each other.

the Gospel is the answer for A sinner, to change into an obedient child of God, who finds no difficulty with the Law and its morality. the Gospel is the circumcision God promised of the Heart, its why Jesus teaches about the inner things, and teaches that " make a dish clean inside and it will be outside as well." clean the heart of Lust and things Like Jesus teaches...the Law will be kept in doing that, and it wont be a sinner trying to keeop a good law, but someone being renewed in the Knoeldge of God and Having thier conscience shaped By His Word of truth and spirit which is the Gospel.

but this op was really simple, the comkmandments are valid and will always remain sound christian doctrine, necassary christian doctrine. Not sayong they offer salvation, but they are useful in every way and should be written on Our Hearts any ways as part of the new covenant

I agree with pretty much all of what you said.... I simply do not want believers to "stop" at the 10 Commandments.... Jesus didn't stop there, when teaching us how to live, and neither should we.

OneFaith · Oct 11, 2017

followjesus said:

i would have to disagree with you old hermit. the Law of moses is useful in every way to christians and all of us should study it and apply its principles to Life. The Only part of the Mosaic Law that is not necassary anymore are the ordinances of cleansing, and the sacrificial Laws of blood sacrifice, the festivals, special sabbaths and moon festivals and things that fall along those Lines, every aspect of Gods Law of morality applies with the Gospel to Christian, and Jew.

every aspect of the morality applies in full and is useful in every way. it is actually necassary at some points to look at the Old to even understand the New. for instance the New testament" forbides sexual Immorality and names it a sin of death"

however the new testament never tells the reader what is Moral sexually? and what is immoral sexually. this Just One example

1corinthians 6:9-10 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God"

so How does one define what sexual Immorality is according to God???? you look to the Law of moses, where Gods morality is detailed, and will never change just one section regarding sexual morality....

leviticus 18 "None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD. 7The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

8The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness. 9The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

10The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, eventheir nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness. 11The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 12Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.

13Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman. 14Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt. 15Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness. 1

6Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness. 17Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.

18Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.19Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness. 20Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her. 21And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.

22Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. 23Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.24Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: 25And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. 26Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: 27(For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled

28That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. 29For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.30Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God."

God will never change, His Law is actually precious to christians and its terrible that so many think its useless they are right, and Wrong. Gods Judgements will never change what He told them, will always Be right regardng morality, they are Gods Ways of Life. people need to understand "love" doesnt replace the Law, it will always fulfill and uphold the Law of Gods Morality. its not really Love if im stealing from you= thou shalt not steal. its not really Love if im cheating on my wife= thou shalt not commit adultery, its not Love if i kill you= thou shalt not Kill.....

the Law is fulfilled in Christ not replaced or abolished. People should learn the Law pf morality and abide in it forgetting the ordinances, cleansing rites, sacrifices ect. but learn the Law of righteosuness. that is within the Law meant for those who Believe in Jesus Christ. its actually whats missing in christianity these days. Morality, responsibility, accountability, Learning and Growing in His ways.

if you look at the Law fro0m the Gospel you understand what has been fulfilled and what is meant to fill us with the righteousness of God.

God bless though I would actually be weary of explaining Gods Law away its not a good peice of advice we should learn to see it through the Gospel and Learn to Live and Love its blessing

The law of God is useful to all God’s people- whether in the Old Testament or the New. However, under Moses these laws were obeyed physically- such as a physical rest on a physical day. But under Christ these laws are obeyed spiritually- such as “the peace that surpasses understanding.” Under Moses, if you physically killed someone without God’s permission, you were guilty of murder. But under Christ, if you hate your brother, you are already guilty of murder- because you disobeyed God’s law spiritually.

Just as a wife cannot have two husbands at the same time, the church cannot be under both Moses and Christ at the same time. (Romans 7:1-4). The Bible also says that if you follow a law, that you must follow all of that law. So if you follow any of the law of Moses (which was nailed to the cross- a ‘husband’ must die before a ‘widow’ can ‘marry’ another), then you are either disobeying Christ, or attempting to be ‘married’ to both Christ and Moses- which is commiting religious adultery. Again, what was nailed to the cross was not God’s law- but the physical way of obeying His law- which we must now obey spiritually- such as in Ephesians 6.

followjesus · Oct 11, 2017

hornetguy said:

i agree comletely with that you are right in what you are saying, the commandments are elementary, i find it suprising so many look to nullify them. i do get what you are saying tho. the commandments tell us " thou shalt not kill" but as you are saying, its not enough to just not Kill each other. again thats what we find in the Gospel. when the young teacher asks Jesus further after He asks the greatest commandment he asks " who is my neighbor?"

Jesus ten Gives Him the example, of the One who fell to robbers, beaten and in need of Help, the levite and the priest both pass by on the other sie, the good samaritan, not only isnt Killing or harming the Guy,,,,,He goes out of His own way, to life and comfort Him, to meet His needs, and even promise more upon His return...... indeed there is much more to it, the commandments are simply another cog in the wheel, an often misundertood cog in modern doctrines, God bless man thanks for the additions

followjesus · Oct 11, 2017

OneFaith said:

yea i agree , the thing is, we spiritually obey, by learning and keeping the teachings of Jesus, thats where we find the spirit. His teachings are the spirit of the Law, the spirit of freedom from sin. Jesus focuses on the inner things Lust, Hate, grudges, unforgiveness, pride, greed, ect.....to obey His teachings is to obey God soiritually because His teachings are the inner things.

the Gospel Ministry of Jesus is the essential in all of this. God always promised a circumcision of the heart so that Israel would return to Him with all thier Heart and walk in His ways and Love Him. the Gospel is what accomplishes it. to obey Jesus teachings many times it rewuires a physical action, but mostly he teaches us to deal with the sinful part within us, the Lustm the evil thoughts, the scheming, the greed, the pride. we follow His teachings on these things, and the Laws rewuirements are met without greivance or oppression, Just because Jesus cleanses Our Heart and as He teaches, the heart is where all evil begins. if there is no Lust, there is no sexual sin and perversion, no adultery. if there is no greed, the poor are supplied and all have plenty, if there is no pride, everyone praises and worships God and thanks Him for His ways.

the Gospel is meant to change Our Hearts nad Minds and that leads to people with changed Lives. One should find themself embracing Gods Law as if it is our Long lost nature.

hornetguy · Oct 11, 2017

thanks for the rep, 1

followjesus · Oct 11, 2017

crossnote said:

yes i dont disagree with that, only i dont see it magically happening, as if Once i became a christian, then i magically didnt struggle with the same desires that i hadnt struggled with before but enbraced and followed. the Gospel is something we sow into, and reap from. Jesus stresses many times explicitley saying to His disciples " you must do these things, Keep my teachings, abide in my sayings, do these things" He was saying this because He is the One Moses promised in the Law, and Isaiah promised in the prophets who would appear, born of a virgin, born of Israel, the Son of God, would speak Gods Judgements in truth into the earth, and those judgements would then be sent to all corners of the earth as a witness to all people of Gods Word, the Gospel.

we do have a Law, we Have what paul calls "the Law of the spirit of Life", this law is the Knowledge Jesus set forth in His teachings, it is the spirit and Life, the Word of God who is spirit comes to us, and we all know that salvation comes from faith in what We have heard of Jesus. we first had to Hear the Gospel, in order to accept it. and what Jesus sent into the earth, was not only the death and resurrection, But His ascention to the right Hand of God, High priest of Heaven eternal, interceeding on our Behalf. Giving the spirit of God to those who believe and keep His Word ( John 14:15-26) freedom from sin to those who believe and Keep His word ( John 8:31-35, )

when paul is talking about the Law of the spirit, He is talking about the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, the spiritual Knowledge Jesus taught man, the way, Truth and the Life. paul was never meaning any different Gospel to be made from His Letters as some do, He was using the phrases Jesus began to teach when Paul is talking about the " spirit" he is referring to the spirit promised by Jesus to His disciples and then Given at pentocaust and is in the earth even Now. it comes with His teachings, with the Doctrine of Jesus, we see clearly the Doctrine of God that will never change or fade.

it is salvation to accept Jesus as the Lord, who also suffered, died and rose again for us, to give us a living Hope and One to depend on through thick and thin, One who is our advocate with God the Father, the God of Israel. The creator of all things.....

To accept Him as Lord by default of that term says you are His disciple the Gospel is a way of Life taught by Jesus, the way of the spirit of Gods children, rather than the Mosaic Law which spoke vieled , of Jesus coming. displaying the blood of spotless animals, shedding the blood of a lamb and being delivered by its Blood " passover" the sacrificial Laws of the goat which bares the sins of the people, by Faith, and the sacrifice that is slain for the atonement price between God and Man. the High priest, the atonement services with the golden censor...all of the things Like this in the Law, were foretelling of what we see Jesus means to us and is for us Now. the Old things trulky and deeply help understanding of the new things, and the new things shine Light upon the old things.

truly i believe to obey the spirit is to accpet and learn from Jesus Gospel He was telling His followers about Gods eternal Kingdom, its a different thing Like Isaiah said " it is a new thing, the Old has come to pass and I am telling you before I do it" ....and then He goes on to describe the eternal Kingdom that would come with the messiah. we as students of the Bible should see How it all completes the rest.

for instance the Gospel would not make sense if One didnt Know of sin and death, of righteousness and Life. those things are taught in the Law of Moses. just One example but the Law all of scripture is truly benificial. things i never knew before in the Law, help understanding of the things say, in Hebrews when it is contrasting the 2 covenants. to understand Hebrews, One needs to realize it was written to those who Knew the Law of moses, so all of the references throughout it , make sense if we Know the Law, and then the comparison makes sense and we see what has been done and How fully sufficient it is

and How perfectly things spoken 3000 years ago have come to pass over time, God kept continuing carrying on the promise, revealing moire details of Jesus, and eventually Christ was Come into the World as the law and prophets foretold as thier grand message. ..and every prophecy christ fulfilled in detail. it shows the faithfulness when God speaks, it will always be Just as He has spoken it, it may take eons to us, but in His time, His word will be it is the Law of creation.

in other words, Gods Words show us Gods character, His desires, we learn Who God really is through the Gospel, and we Learn of sin and death through adam and then Moses. its important stuff even the details seem to Hold depth and layers as One presses on in study and prayer especially.....

followjesus · Oct 12, 2017

Just a bit more sort of on the topic of the Law being exclusive to the first covenant and only applivable to the Jews.

in the Ot, after years of Israel backsliding Gods patience with them pauses He declares Israel and Judah sister Whores of Babylon, declares I will no longer accept your sacrifices and gifts, none of your offerings will be anymore acceptable i have had my fill of animals and you have Lost the sanctity of the Worship ordinances "ordained" in the Law. these Ordinances of worship, sacrifice, service of the priesthood, thjese things all came to fulness and were seen in the Gospel taught By the Lord Himself to those who would believe, whether centurion roman, samaritan woman who had 5 different Husbands, or a fellow Israelite, He spoke the things of God, He is the One promised of Moses in deuteronomy 18:15-19, this because God spoke the commandments Himself to the People and they cried and begged Moses not to let the Lord speak again or they would "certainly die"

it is the result of adams transgression of Gods commandment, appearing in adams offspring, man becomes a sinner by nature as we exist in this world that has temptations everywhere one cares to look. Paul speaks of the Law being part of mankinds makeup, part of our conscience and if you look back when God broke with the covenant and set the stage for Jesus to fulfill all the Promises of the coming Mercy, and also the coming Light of Gods Word of truth, the One God sent to set His judgements, the One whom the Isles will wait for His Law, the One who will not fail until He sets Judgement in the earth, the One child who will bare the government on His shoulders. Jesus the Christ King, the Son of God. the High Priest, the promised Lamb from the days of abaraham and Isaac.

when God broke with the first covenant, and began bringing in the details of the coming New testament through Prophecy. zechariah sees book of the Law, and it is sent with the Jews who were to be dispersed inmto all nations. they took and bore the Law with them in every nation so the Law also was preached to the ends of the earth. that all can Justifyably be held accountable as a sinner, and therefore can Justifiably grasp thier need for a Savior and accept the Savior and Redeemer of man.

even the jews being scattered into all the earth, ties into the promise to abraham that all the earth would be blessed through His seed. those who hear the Law, can then understand the Gospel and its impact on things Bringing in the Promise of everlasting Life, something that was not offered in another Promse apart from the Kingdom of God and the Lords Inheritance He will divide among believers, eternal Life in the Kingdom prepared from the foundation."

so the Law of the covenant the ten commandmants are actually basically the framework of accepted societal Behavior on basically every culture, murder is wrong, theft wrong, lies wrong, false witness wrong, rape, wrong..ectthe Law has been sent out to all homes and peoples

ezekiel 2 "But thou, son of man, hear what I say unto thee; Be not thou rebellious like that rebellious house: open thy mouth, and eat that I give thee. 9And when I looked, behold, an hand was sent unto me; and, lo, a roll of a book was therein; 10And he spread it before me; and it was written within and without: and there was written therein lamentations, and mourning, and woe."

zechariah 5 "Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll. 2And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits. 3Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it. 4I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.

you see the Law still serves the Purpose it always has, sinners need the Law to find Christ, and it also is for those who refuse to accept Jesus Christ, who refuse to believe and repent and trun to God. The Law is Morality for all man according to God speaking strictly ofthe Moral behavioral sections of the Law all based on the ten cotegorical commandments, the framework of Human morality accprding to God the Laws we do not Break. the Law then expounds on many other individual sexual sins, sins of Greed, revenge, covetousness, pride, sloth, and any other sin we can think of in the Law it is defined as either good, or evil each action. it is designed this way becaus as Paul says, it was given to sinners, the rebelious people a restraint on the Human natural instincts corruot in thier Heart as evidenced in the generations before the flood evil Hearts, wicked devises within us, plots of dishonesty afoot inside of us.The Law gets an unfair shake and devalued alot, esoecuially when Dealing with the ten commandments as opposed to the handrwriting of ordinance in the ceremonial Law.

in scattering Israel into all the earth after Jesus Death and resurrection, led to the Law, and the Gospel of course commissioned on word of the Lord risen Himself, that the disciples spread His word to all nations of the earth. as also were the jews scattered into all those nations and the Gospel is still reachuing today. the Law is always useful, we Just understand we are not goverened or judged by the precepts of the Law, or forgiven by the blood of animals in the Law, we Know we celebrate remeb]mbrence of passover Now, in remembrabce of the Body and Blood of Jesus the Lamb of Gods atonement that caused death to pass over His children, and things that were fulfilled in Jesus whats left is pure Morality that works together with the Gospels Forgiveness, its Grace and Truth. its all really relevent i was nr=ever meanuing ti say the commandments are what offers sakvation of anything God Bless sorry i ramble on alot Peace

the ten commandments

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned