The time of Jacob's troubles

[valiant]

.,
I agree that the Heavenly Jerusalem is now "God's city". But there is still prophecy to be fulfilled, and I believe that the natural branches are now in control of Jerusalem.

well let them stay there. They have no part in the future. They are totally discrediting God. All the action will concern God's heavenly city.

Will you say that all the people in Israel today have no place in God's kingdom, EVER?

if they repent and believe. Otherwise no.

Do you say that they all will absolutely NEVER repent and accept Jesus as the Messiah?

all who are the elect will do so.

Are they now, in a state of partial blessing, because of the promises that were made to the Fathers?

No. Only the elect.

Just waiting for Jesus to lift the vail?

no, only the elect

I agree with you basically, the ToG's ended when Jerusalem was restored to control of Jeru. 1967, Jesus will be coming for the kingdom when Jerusalem falls.

If you mean the millennium. dream on.

A city restored to the natural branches, as promised by the statue in Dan. 2,

earthly Jerusalem has no part to play.

As promised when the ToG's end, Lk 21:24.

then the end will come

As promised in Rev 12, when the 3 1/2 t's end, the woman returns to Jerusalem after being in the wilderness.

The woman went into the wilderness 2000 years ago. Rev 12 is fulfilled.

As promised, the 2 witnesses are in Jerusalem now, restored from sackcloth.

I must have missed them lol

 

[valiant]

Ezra agrees Completely

in fact Haggai 2, Ezra 3 and Zechariah 4 all warn man to pay careful attention to THE FOUNDATION

Further sir. In the time of Ezra, Ezra would not allow anyone to have a hand in building the temple(HOUSE) for GOD unless he could provide proof of a pure priestly line

the temple will be rebuilt and men (who claim to know GOD's WORD) will ignore the words of the prophet as per Haggai 2 and as per Ezra 3

Dream on.

There's one STONE cut out from the mountain but not by human hands

And it's not zerubabbel

And He has established the heavenly kingdom throughout the world.

 

[miknik5]

Dream on.



And He has established the heavenly kingdom throughout the world.

sir

when they begin to build the earthly temple, do you understand why many will be martyred. (That is, those who will hold to THE TESTIMONY of JESUS)?

 

[valiant]

sir

when they begin to build the earthly temple, do you understand why many will be martyred. (That is, those who will hold to THE TESTIMONY of JESUS)?

any earthly temple that is built will be man made and unscriptural

 

[Johnny_B]

It would help you I think, if you read Revelation 12, like "Readers Digest" (really telling my age here...)....Like a "very condensed" historical record, that transcends time and space. Or, "A, or the" Earth and Heaven age that was before Adam and Eve. Methinks there was a flood that Peter was describing in 2nd Peter (I think), that was not describing Noah's flood.

The context is judgement, the judgement by water was Noah's flood. Unless you can find one or two other places where it is saying the same thing. Let a thing be established by two or three witnesses. We know about Noah's flood to be true because we have OT reference, Gospel reference and epistle reference. Three witnesses.

 

[abcdef]

well let them stay there. They have no part in the future. They are totally discrediting God. All the action will concern God's heavenly city.



if they repent and believe. Otherwise no.



all who are the elect will do so.



No. Only the elect.



no, only the elect

When Jesus comes for the kingdom, this planet ends.

Israel will be saved, wild and natural branches, who have obeyed the gospel.

If you mean the millennium. dream on.

The mill is the church age, it's almost over.

See how at the end of the mill, Jerusalem is surrounded.

earthly Jerusalem has no part to play.

I don't believe that, not everything was fulfilled by 70 ad.

then the end will come

It's here.

The woman went into the wilderness 2000 years ago. Rev 12 is fulfilled.

Yes, the time of the woman in the wilderness Rev 12, has a beginning and an end, the woman was restored to Jerusalem in 1967, when the 3 1/2 t's ended.

Rev 12, shows the beginning in 70 ad., and the end, when Israel is restored.

I must have missed them lol

You haven't missed them, they're still there. you just haven't realized it yet.

 

[miknik5]

any earthly temple that is built will be man made and unscriptural

Are all "spiritually resurrected"? (your choice of wording)

 

[miknik5]

When Jesus comes for the kingdom, this planet ends.

Israel will be saved, wild and natural branches, who have obeyed the gospel.




The mill is the church age, it's almost over.

See how at the end of the mill, Jerusalem is surrounded.



I don't believe that, not everything was fulfilled by 70 ad.



It's here.



Yes, the time of the woman in the wilderness Rev 12, has a beginning and an end, the woman was restored to Jerusalem in 1967, when the 3 1/2 t's ended.

Rev 12, shows the beginning in 70 ad., and the end, when Israel is restored.



You haven't missed them, they're still there. you just haven't realized it yet.

With regards to the two witnesses, please tell me when did the shift in this present ministry occur? When were we given the okay by THE LORD to destroy our enemies?

 

[abcdef]

With regards to the two witnesses, please tell me when did the shift in this present ministry occur? When were we given the okay by THE LORD to destroy our enemies?

,
,
I'm not sure what you mean, or what you want.

The 2 witnesses are the natural branches, which may be grafted back in if they accept Jesus as the Messiah.

Our war is a spiritual one, to defeat our enemies, is to have them die to the world (not physical death), but become alive to God through Jesus.

The attributes of the 2 W's are spiritual principles set by God.

The fire that comes from their mouths, is the scriptures, the judgments of God.

 

[miknik5]

.,
I agree that the Heavenly Jerusalem is now "God's city". But there is still prophecy to be fulfilled, and I believe that the natural branches are now in control of Jerusalem.

Will you say that all the people in Israel today have no place in God's kingdom, EVER?

Do you say that they all will absolutely NEVER repent and accept Jesus as the Messiah?

Are they now, in a state of partial blessing, because of the promises that were made to the Fathers?

Just waiting for Jesus to lift the vail?




I agree with you basically, the ToG's ended when Jerusalem was restored to control of Jeru. 1967, Jesus will be coming for the kingdom when Jerusalem falls.





A city restored to the natural branches, as promised by the statue in Dan. 2,

As promised when the ToG's end, Lk 21:24.

As promised in Rev 12, when the 3 1/2 t's end, the woman returns to Jerusalem after being in the wilderness.

As promised, the 2 witnesses are in Jerusalem now, restored from sackcloth.

Please explain your above sentence with regard to the two witnesses

 

[Locutus]

Jacob's time of trouble came and went, it needs to be put in its correct context:

Jer 31:1 At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.

Israel was being gathered in the 1st century AD at the time of Jacob's trouble to become "the God of all their families" - the companion prophecies are found in Ezekiel and their fulfillment in Paul's letter to the Corinthians:

A comparison between Ezekiel and Corinthians shows that Paul is virtually repeating the prophets words and applying them to the Gentiles:

Ezekiel 37:26-27 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

What is significant about Paul's use of Ezekiel here is prior to the above is the regathering of Israel under on stick - bringing the tribes together as one in Messiah.

Ezek 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:

Ezek 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick;and they shall become one in thine hand.

Now if what Paul is stating from Ezekiel's prophecy is happening at Corinth in the 1st century AD "they shall be my people" then it must follow that the previous actions were already under way "I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen".

Ezek 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

And this is exactly what we find happening in James' letter:

James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Thus in the 1st century AD we have the 12 tribes being called together to be one "stick" and the Gentiles as "I will be their God, and they shall be my people" in the body of Christ.

 

[abcdef]

Please explain your above sentence with regard to the two witnesses

I can't tell which sentence that your referring to, that you want explained, but I'll try.

--
The 2 olive trees are literally the word of God, that stand in His presence. Zech 4:6.

The complete vision in Zech. is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel.

The 2W's are literally the word of God also.

The 2W's, the Law and the Prophets, again literally the word of God, are kept in scrolls by the natural branches.

Jesus said that the Law and the Prophets (scriptures) bear witness of Him, (2 witnesses).

The 2W's are the people of the natural branches, Israel after the flesh.

They carry the Law and the Prophets.

(if they accept Jesus, then there would be 3 W's, with the Holy Spirit)

--

The powers of the 2W's, are the power of God through the scriptures. They are spiritual powers effecting the relationship between God and their enemies.

The scriptures hold the power of eternal life and the wisdom of God, they bear witness of Jesus.

The knowledge of the scriptures, and the meanings, are given to Israel, wild and natural branches.

-

Rev 11:5, The use of them brings sin and guilt to light. The result would be a "burning", tormented, soul (Rev 11:10, tormented).

He who lives by the sword, will die by the sword.

The people who attack Israel by the sword, will eventually be killed by force.

Israel is attacked because they are God's people, but because they are God's people, they cannot be exterminated, until the end.

-

Rev 11:6, The rain is the "water" of life, again, that comes from the scriptures. The sustaining blessings of life that come from the throne of God.

If those with the power of the scriptures, withhold them, there is no spiritual, life giving rain (spirit, Holy Spirit).

The waters to blood show the bitterness of rejecting their message and killing the people of Israel.

How can you find God, if you kill the people who have the understanding scriptures to get you there.

The plagues are torments of the spirit for rejecting God's word. Guilt, heartbreak, emptiness.

The power of those who hold the scriptures, is the power of eternal spiritual life, or the torment of the soul and separation from God and His love, death.

-

 

[abcdef]

Please explain your above sentence with regard to the two witnesses

.
.

The time that the 2W's witness are in sackcloth is the same time as the times of the gentiles in Lk21:24.

They where sackcloth because they are in mourning over Jerusalem being controlled by gentiles.

This is the time from 70 ad until 1967, when Israel is restored to Jerusalem.

When the 2W's, the people of Israel are restored to Jerusalem, then the wearing of sackcloth time is over.

--

The temple that is measured in Rev 11, is the temple of 70 ad.. It's measurements are not given because the measurements are not perfect, as the holy city Jerusalem is in Rev 21.

See how the area in Rev 11:2, is "trampled", controlled, (Lk 21:24) by gentiles.

--

The 7 times are the same time as the statue in Dan. 2.

The statue represents the nations that rule Israel until they are restored to Jerusalem.

The 1st, 3 1/2 times (3 1/2ts), is from the declaration of the angel in Babylon in Dan. 12:6-7, until 70 ad. when the power of the people is scattered.

The 2nd, 3 1/2ts, is from 70 ad, until 1967, when Israel was restored to Jerusalem and the power of the Roman beast over Israel (iron legs, 4th beast Dan 7) was ended.

This is also known as the times of the gentiles, Lk 21:24.

--

The time of the sackcloth for the 2Ws is the 2nd, 3 1/2ts. 70 ad until 1967.

It is the same time that the woman of Rev 12 is in the wilderness (outside of her home, Jerusalem) fleeing from the dragon beast Rome, after the dest of Jeru in 70 ad.

 

[miknik5]

King James Bible
The Two Witnesses
1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3And I will give powerunto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
The Witnesses Killed and Raised
7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.


Please expound how the two witnesses (as you have explained them to be in your above two posts) died and how after three days their bodies stood up and ascended back into heaven.


Thank you

 

[miknik5]

Do two or three witnesses testify now before those under the law?

dod Jesus fulfill all of the Law and the prophets?

Csnnyou testifybto THE TRUTH?

because HE has been sending witnesses since the moment HE poured out HIS SPIRIT upon those whom HE called and sent whontestify by THAT WITNESS in them who also testifies


That's two witnesses already

And the law requires that two or three are needed to validate a TRUTH

 

[miknik5]

And abcdef, in regards to your explanation of the two witnesses, please expound John 5:16 through John 5:47

Who was Jesus addressing?
those who had the witness of the law and the prophets but did not believe in HIM

And according to John 8, those who do not believe in HIM, can not follow HIM and will die in their sins

This HE said, after giving testimony of HIMSELF which they could not accept because they referred HIM back to "the law and the prophets"

 

[miknik5]

The law: Deuteronomy 19, and Numbers __ states two or three witnesses are needed to testify

JESUS is ONE, (which HE understood that they could not receive HIS own personal testimony of HIMSELF)...which is why in John 8, JESUS says MY FATHER also testifies

They asked HIM, who is your father


(showing they did not believe)

Those who have the law and the prophets not believe
and the 144,000 after these two witnesses will refer not only to the law and the prophets but how the written word (the jaw and the prophets) testifies of JESUS

there will be no change in THE TRUTH of THE GOSPEL of GOD

 

[miknik5]

The two witnesses will not be pointing to and testifying of the law and the prophets

They stand before GOD and they will testify of the TESTIMONY of JESUS

Whichbis why they will be killed after they give their testimony

many witnesses will stand in the judgement and will testify to ONE TRUTH

C

 

[miknik5]

At the end of all things, read once again John 5 and see that a time will come when ALL...will hear the VOICE of THE SON of GOD

Not just those now

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

any earthly temple that is built will be man made and unscriptural

Are all "spiritually resurrected"? (your choice of wording)

I fail to see the connection. But I'm sure you have made one..