The unpardonable sin

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
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#61
Why didnt Jesus just say that then?

Apparently you do not know this, but we only have a fraction of what Jesus said and did in our Bibles. Just the Highlights of His earthly Ministry, not the complete HISTORY of what He said and did.

John 21:25 (HCSB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which, if they were written one by one, I suppose not even the world itself could contain the books that would be written.


We know that HE said there is only ONE Unpardonable Sin, this verse then has to be where HE DEFINES what HE means by the only sin that is an eternally unforgiven sin:


John 12:47-48 (HCSB)
[SUP]47 [/SUP]If anyone hears My words and doesn’t keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]The one who rejects Me and doesn’t accept My sayings has this as his judge: The word I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
4,587
113
#62
Why didnt Jesus just say that then?

Apparently you do not know this, but we only have a fraction of what Jesus said and did in our Bibles. Just the Highlights of His earthly Ministry, not the complete HISTORY of what He said and did.

John 21:25 (HCSB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which, if they were written one by one, I suppose not even the world itself could contain the books that would be written.


We know that HE said there is only ONE Unpardonable Sin, this verse then has to be where HE DEFINES what HE means by the only sin that is an eternally unforgiven sin:


John 12:47-48 (HCSB)
[SUP]47 [/SUP]If anyone hears My words and doesn’t keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]The one who rejects Me and doesn’t accept My sayings has this as his judge: The word I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#63
Apparently you do not know this, but we only have a fraction of what Jesus said and did in our Bibles. Just the Highlights of His earthly Ministry, not the complete HISTORY of what He said and did.

John 21:25 (HCSB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which, if they were written one by one, I suppose not even the world itself could contain the books that would be written.


We know that HE said there is only ONE Unpardonable Sin, this verse then has to be where HE DEFINES what HE means by the only sin that is an eternally unforgiven sin:


John 12:47-48 (HCSB)
[SUP]47 [/SUP]If anyone hears My words and doesn’t keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]The one who rejects Me and doesn’t accept My sayings has this as his judge:The word I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
Okay so the WORD (which was unhighlighted) that he has SPOKEN will judge us
but your saying he SAID so MANY MORE things?

Or were there just many other things Jesus DID?

Said, or did?

Jesus said DID, you said both (said and did) and to the point we have a fraction of what he actually said as well but the very word he has spoken we are to keep (of his) but we dont have them all?

If the word he has spoken is our judge? How do we know what that is if its not written and we dont know what that is?
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#64
You know what?

Nevermind.
 
Jan 6, 2014
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#65
in context people were saying Jesus was working miracles by the power of the evil one. This would be the unforgivable sin because God can not deny himself to save you. And many today say God must be evil to allow all the suffering in the world.

God is merciful and longsuffering, God is full of loving kindness, God is holy and just.

If if you believe God is evil then how evil are you?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
4,587
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#66
Okay so the WORD (which was unhighlighted) that he has SPOKEN will judge us
but your saying he SAID so MANY MORE things?

Or were there just many other things Jesus DID?

Said, or did?

Jesus said DID, you said both (said and did) and to the point we have a fraction of what he actually said as well but the very word he has spoken we are to keep (of his) but we dont have them all?

If the word he has spoken is our judge? How do we know what that is if its not written and we dont know what that is?
t<><

Do the math, the recorded conversations of JESUS, can be read in one afternoon, and HIS ministry lasted 3 YEARS.

Are you even reading the verses I posted? The context of that verse 48 has the WORDS that HE spoke that will be their Judge convicting and sentencing to the Lake of Fire forever.

"The one who rejects Me and doesn’t accept My sayings has this as his judge . . ."


And what about the person who never heard the name of Jesus in their entire life?
They are still without any excuse:


Romans 1:18-22 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For God’s wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Claiming to be wise, they became fools

They reject Jesus Christ as GOD in the FLESH and as CREATOR, when in their human wisdom they decide there is NO CREATOR, it is all made by Evolution.

Rejecting Jesus Christ is the only reason anyone will go to Hell, all other sins were paid for on the Cross.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 (NRSV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] and He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.


When one chooses to remain lord of one's own life, that person is REJECTING Receiving Jesus Christ as LORD, and HE is the ONLY Atoning Sacrifice that there is. In a REAL SENSE, if you die not wanting GOD to be part of your life, you get your wish for ETERNITY. BUT, you will not like the one place where GOD is not present. YES Salvation is a FREE GIFT, but if you refuse to RECEIVE IT, then it is NOT something you possess.

So where does Obedience come in? Genuine Believers will want to OBEY, after they are genuinely SAVED. That Love of GOD that the HOLY SPIRIT pours into our hearts, the moment we first BELIEVE, Rom. 5:5; WILL produce in your heart a desire to OBEY HIM.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#67
Im bad at math and really sorry I asked, my fault.
 
Dec 26, 2014
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#69
^Thats why I said ^

I'll go with Jesus words
good. the father will help you, that is if he wants to ! (yeah and amen?)

remember saul was fervent for yahweh, with zeal, but in ignorance.

those who yahshua (jesus) said would not be forgiven, were opposed to yahweh, the father in heaven. (not just
opposed to yahshua; but they were opposed to the father, JESUS SAYS, and they hated him) .
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#70
good. the father will help you, that is if he wants to ! (yeah and amen?)

remember saul was fervent for yahweh, with zeal, but in ignorance.

those who yahshua (jesus) said would not be forgiven, were opposed to yahweh, the father in heaven. (not just
opposed to yahshua; but they were opposed to the father, JESUS SAYS, and they hated him) .

Some folks can make a confusing mess out of trying to teach, some are gifted in it and others are not, the ones gifted in it arent many, but the many are wanna be's make things worse, especially on matters of this nature.

Thats why I should back off asking here (most especially) for the sake of others, I can roll my eyes at the confusing responses but they might feel overwhelmed by them.

I forget that sometimes.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
4,587
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#71
Some folks can make a confusing mess out of trying to teach, some are gifted in it and others are not, the ones gifted in it arent many, but the many are wanna be's make things worse, especially on matters of this nature.

Thats why I should back off asking here (most especially) for the sake of others, I can roll my eyes at the confusing responses but they might feel overwhelmed by them.

I forget that sometimes.
It will not be confusing to the Born Again believer, but I agree that we should keep it simple when we are talking to one who is not yet Born Again. Born Again is when you let the Holy Spirit convict you in the heart of how utterly sinful you are, confess it to GOD, crying out to HIM for forgiveness; and in that same act, that is powered by the Holy Spirit, you stop ruling your own life, and willingly GIVE THAT RULE OVER YOUR LIFE TO JESUS CHRIST BECAUSE YOU LOVE HIM.

Sitting in a pew does not make you a Christian, other than that is the one sure place you will expose yourself to the teaching of the Word. And it is hearing the WORD of GOD taught, that the Holy Spirit will use to bring you to become a genuine Born Again Believer.

Romans 10:17 (NKJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So how do I know that a Born Again Believer, with the Holy Spirit in his or her heart, has a deeper understanding of the Scriptures than one who not yet a Born Again Believer? One of the most important things that happens when one becomes Born Again, is the Holy Spirit brings your human spirit to become Eternally Alive. That Born Again Human Spirit, has a spiritual mind, that is equipped to understand the deep spiritual Truths in the Bible, as well as the HOLY SPIRIT Himself, helps us to understand those deep spiritual Truths.

John 14:26 (ASV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But the Comforter, even the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you.

1 Corinthians 2:10-14 (NIV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.


I hope that is more understandable now, and I pray that it is the Holy Spirit who gave you the understanding.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
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#73
But you are, nice try though

I am sorry, that it is still confusing. I am patient, but I have a bad habit, of assuming people know more than they were taught. Please forgive me for that flaw in my character. I need to go back to the late 60s in my mind, and remember how little I knew back then. I knew little more back then, than God was in Heaven and Jesus had part of God in Him. I had little problem believing in the Holy Trinity, because a Sunday School teacher explained that to me before I became a teenager, that GOD was an omnipresent Spirit, which means everywhere at the same time. And she said that the Father, the Spirit in Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, were all part of that ONE SPIRIT we call GOD. Because she took the time to explain the Omnipresence of GOD first, I had little problem understanding and believing the reality that those three Spirit individuals, are intertwined in each other, and thus they are the make up of the ONE TRUE GOD.

Even though I grew up going to Church, I did not become a Born Again Believer until the last week of 1977.

What is the difference between what I was in 1967 and what HE caused me to become in 1977?

In 1967 I knew about Jesus, and about GOD, but it was only knowledge in my mind that lies between my ears.

After my third attempt at Suicide the last week of 1977, something in me BROKE! I now understand that it was the pride of living my own life my own way that broke. This RUSH of tremendous guilt over my whole lifestyle, washed over me wave after wave. I found myself on knees, mourning and weeping uncontrollably over my utter sinfulness (see James 2:10). I was crying out over and over again, "Forgive me, PLEASE Forgive me!" Then the Holy Spirit gave me a prayer that I HAD NEVER HEARD BEFORE, and it was a prayer of total, willing surrender to Jesus Christ as my Master, which is what LORD means. I prayed, "Forgive me LORD, if you have a purpose for my life, then you will have to come into my life and do it, because I can't do it. I am making a total mess of it!" At that moment, I changed from being only a Church goer, to genuinely KNOWING HIM my heart, willingly giving HIM complete control of my life, as an act of LOVE FOR HIM.

Did He completely change me instantaneously? No, it was one step at a time, from the inside out. One of the first changes that I noticed, is that the Bible CEASED to be boring to me, and I had a tremendous hunger to UNDERSTAND His Word, and how it applied to my life. Then one day I hit my thumb with a hammer, and all that came out of mouth was "DOG GONE IT!" I stopped and thought when did that happen. You see prior to becoming a Born Again Believer, I couldn't say one sentence without at least two or three four letter words in it. The more I fed my new Born Again Human Spirit on HIS WORD, the more HE was able to change me from the inside out, one step at a time. Soon I was listening to good BIBLE TEACHERS on the Radio, like Dr. John MacArthur and Dr. Chuck Swindoll, and I could not get enough of that kind of solid BIBLE TEACHING.

So what do I mean that the Human Spirit has to be born into Eternal Life, by the Holy Spirit:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (ISV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] May the God of peace himself make you holy in every way. And may your whole beingspirit, soul, and body—be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

We are made up of THREE distinctly different parts spirit, soul, and body

Body
is easy to explain, anything you can look at under a microscope is part of the body.

Soul
is easy to explain if you look at the GREEK word first, which is psychē, that's right it is the cognitive abilities of the human mind. Thoughts, memories, emotions, reasoning, etc., etc., all make up the human soul.

Human Spirit is the part of a human being that is NOT birthed into life at natural child birth. The Human Spirit has to birthed into Eternal Life by the Holy Spirit the moment we first genuinely believe and receive Jesus Christ as LORD.

John 3:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Ephesians 2:4-5 (NIV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead {Since we know the Body and Soul were born alive, it is clear that He is talking about the Human Spirit.} in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.

John 5:24 (ESV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. {Since we know the Body will die, it is clear that He is talking about the Human Spirit.}


Is that easier to understand, when I explain it that way?
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#74
No, I dont really read you, which was another reason I said nevermind.

Just put me on ignore.
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
#75
Unsubscribing to the thread will not be back.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
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#76
I wasn't going to reply to this but God had other ideas...because I have been thinking about it so much.

I worry about the attack of Satan on unbeliever's and weaker brother's. I will say my piece then and let it go. When the Holy Spirit is convicting a person of their sins, the devil will tell the man:--You are a sinner, a chief sinner, a special sinner who has committed the sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit; therefore you will never be forgiven.

Let us read Mark 3:28-30.

"Verily I say unto you, all their sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and their blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme" [vs. 28]. This sounds like music! It is a most pleasant word! All the sins and blasphemies of the world may be forgiven. What a great declaration of the Gospel! All sins include great sins, small sins, refined sins, gross sins, sins which are humanly considered as unpardonable as well as those that are viewed as pardonable, and sins of yesterday, today, and even tomorrow. All sins are forgiven. Word's of blasphemy against God are forgiven, slanders against the Lord are also forgiven. All sins--that is, all our actions of conduct and all our words spoken against God while we were yet sinners--are all forgiven. So let this be clear--there is not any sin that cannot be forgiven, even every blasphemous word against God is forgiven. This is what the Lord Himself tells us here. So there Satan!

The only unpardonable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, not against Christ. Also, Quenching the Holy Spirit is not the same as blaspheming against Him, nor is resisting the Holy Spirit a blaspheming against Him.

"But whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin" [vs. 29]. It is therefore evident to me that this sin is a special and unordinary kind.

So what is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? It is to speak out openly words which blaspheme the Holy Spirit. How do we know that this sin is broken out of the mouth? Please read the concluding verse which says: "Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit" [vs. 30]. Hence this sin is not easily committed as many today think. To commit such a sin a person must clearly witness the Lord casting out demons and performing miracles and wonders while He was on earth, and in spite of his knowledge of all these things he still insists that the Lord has an unclean spirit.

Because of all this, therefore, for people to commit this sin they must:
1]. See the Lord Jesus with their eyes.
2]. Witness the Lord doing wonders in their midst.
3]. Know assuredly that this is the Holy Spirit, and..
4]. In the face of such inner conviction speak nevertheless that this is the work of the demons.

How , then, can we today commit this sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit if we have not seen the Lord with our eyes, neither have witnessed Him doing wonders in our midst, nor have known definitely that this is the Holy Spirit?

Hence, I can conclude that we do not have the opportunity nor the possibility of committing such a sin.

In case anybody or even the devil should say to you that you are never to be forgiven because you have committed the sin of Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, you may answer at once that there is no such thing because you have not seen the Lord nor His wonder, neither have you spoken willfully that the work is done by demons while knowing assuredly it is of the Holy Spirit.

Oh, I so didn't want to have to say all that, yet not my will but thine be done...Ok, I have been spent on this subject. God Bless.

I will say however...Although we today will not be able to commit the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, we should nonetheless be very careful in saying so-and-so's work is of the Holy Spirit whereas so-and -so's work is of the evil spirit.
 
Dec 26, 2014
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#77
..... just read the last paragraph....

today, many are blaspheming the ruach hakodesh. many will never recover, and many cannot.

a few will (recover from sin/ not a sin unto death/) , but not many.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,972
4,587
113
#78
..... just read the last paragraph....

today, many are blaspheming the ruach hakodesh. many will never recover, and many cannot.

a few will (recover from sin/ not a sin unto death/) , but not many.

Luke 13:23-25 (NKJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them,
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know you, where you are from,'
 
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Femalelamb

Guest
#79
This verse has always struck fear in my heart. I desire to know Him rightly.