The works of the law of righteousness vs works by faith to justification

[nl]

Jesus: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. (Mt 5)

Let your light shine. Be an influence. Be salt and light.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to those who love him. - James 1:12

 

[know1]

Works of the law is flesh based/human effort; works of faith are works wrought out in us by God.

This much I know and understand as well as agree with, not to mention that it's the same thing I have been saying all along, only not in those words. Thanks.

 

[know1]

Here in lies the problem. Most people attribute cross to salvation only. Then we must look to ourselves for sanctification and rely own our own strength, We began to look at our actions as holiness. We say hey I'm pretty good. I don't do this or I don't do that or I do this and I do that. We start taking our faith off the cross and placing it in what we are doing. This allows the sin nature to revive in us. The cross is the only thing that overcomes the power of sin.

This is why most of the church are constantly coming up with new fads. Such as prayer shawls and beanies, you name it. Faith placed in the work of the cross and not our own, is the means that allows the Holy Spirit to work in us and produces good fruit or that is to say works. We must deny ourself and take up our cross daily. Romans 6,7,8

Okay, I got that, but herein lies yet another problem. Though your post was written well, I still fail to see why you are addressing me with this argument, because I agree with it. I believe you read my post but failed to understand it. Thanks.

 

[know1]

Jesus: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. (Mt 5)

Let your light shine. Be an influence. Be salt and light.

Blessed is the man who endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to those who love him. - James 1:12

What are you trying to say here sir? I was not able to put the two verses together to come up with a conclusion.

 

[homwardbound]

Hmmmm, lets see. And they overcame the beast by keeping law? No that doesn't fit. They overcame by helping widows and orphans? No still isn't right. They overcame by refraining from sin? close. Maybe being good and keeping the ten commandments? sorry. Oh, this is a good one. They overcame by attending church on Saturday? Again sorry.

They overcame by the BLOOD OF THE LAMB and the WORD of their testimony. Now that is right on track. The word of their testimony is confessing christ as their savior and righteousness.

and not faking it either, Thanks Kerry

 

[homwardbound]

Here in lies the problem. Most people attribute cross to salvation only. Then we must look to ourselves for sanctification and rely own our own strength, We began to look at our actions as holiness. We say hey I'm pretty good. I don't do this or I don't do that or I do this and I do that. We start taking our faith off the cross and placing it in what we are doing. This allows the sin nature to revive in us. The cross is the only thing that overcomes the power of sin.

This is why most of the church are constantly coming up with new fads. Such as prayer shawls and beanies, you name it. Faith placed in the work of the cross and not our own, is the means that allows the Holy Spirit to work in us and produces good fruit or that is to say works. We must deny ourself and take up our cross daily. Romans 6,7,8

Yes die to self daily and be alive consciously daily to God by the desath, for our death and the resurrection for our resurrection being alive in the Spirit of God daily
Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Philippians 1:20 According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.
Philippians 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

None of the above verses are any result of man works, they are the result in belief of God's finished work for us at the cross of Christ

 

[just-me]

In the recent past, my wife and I have been involved in 2 other threads concerning the arguments of whether or not the law is relevant, or abolished. With the love that the Spirit of God has placed in our hearts, I have to explain my train of thought because of a great concern for God’s children, or those that claim it without foundation. What I’m about ready to present will probably aggravate some of you to the point of claiming my viewpoint is totally non-Christian. Then there will be some who say amen to my train of thought. With tongue in cheek, and because of the love and concern I have for all of you, here goes.

Matthew 5:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth are still here, and so is the law according to Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is very disappointing and heart wrenching that proclaiming Christians refute these words.

For those of you who say that the law is abolished, or of no use because of grace, I would like to ask you a series of questions, in light of the fact that all of us know that it’s our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.
1.Have you ever studied the law before you received the gift of grace?
2. If not, did you find another way to come to Christ?
3. And if you fall into the category of #2, why did you not let the very tool God has given you to bring you to Christ Jesus?
4. Do you actually feel that by identifying sin, through the law, gives you no escape from it?
5. Is it really true that you can’t see the Spiritual side of the Mosaic Law that Paul saw in Romans chapter 7?

Matthew 5:19 (KJV) [SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
So those of you who declare the law is abolished, what do you use to bring others to Christ, or do you also tell them that the law makes no difference anymore? If that were the case, where is the truth of Christ that you say you have?
Matthew 5:20 (KJV)
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
John 5:45 (KJV)
45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

The religious sect of Jesus’ day was Christ’s worst enemy. So what did the Pharisees do that was so wrong? People will say they obeyed the law in the flesh and not in the Spirit. That’s only part of it. Jesus called them on several accounts that they were adding to, and subtracting from the law so they could abide by it perfectly. What a failure on their part, making up their own rules as righteousness! What are we doing, when we deny the law and call it a failure? It failed because of our imperfection, not because God had second thoughts!!! It was never given to achieve righteousness!! It was given so we could see our faults! Therefore, by denying the law, we have no alternative but to make up our own rules according to what is right and wrong. So, by denying the law, what makes us different from a Pharisee?


John 5:46-47 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Just because we are believers in Christ Jesus, are we exempt from identifying what God hates, or do we really want to exempt ourselves from guilt? God loves us and wants us to repent daily, and confess daily. Without the law we identify those things according to our standards, and not His. When we identify the law as irrelevant for today, we are telling others there is nothing more in our fleshly life that must be covered by the blood of Jesus Christ. I think that train of thought is non-Biblical.

There is much more that I could present. This is just part of what I believe the scripture is telling me and I’m very sure that this post will have responses that are negative, and positive. I will not present anything that I think scripture doesn’t clearly define.

May God’s Word start us walkin’ and the Spirit do the talkin’.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Matthew 5:17-18 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth are still here, and so is the law according to Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is very disappointing and heart wrenching that proclaiming Christians refute these words.

Jesus said these words while the old covenant was still in existence, and was making the point that the law was higher and greater than the heavens, and would by no means pass away until all justice and righteousness required under the old covenant was fulfilled. Which he accomplished; all of it. Therefore, the condition for the old to pass away has been fulfilled.

The book of the covenant (mentioned below) was the law of Moses which included the 10 commandments. It was the law of the old covenant, which covenant was superseded by the new covenant and disappeared nearly 2000 years before we were even born. One cannot be under the laws of a covenant, or a country, that (s)he is not a member of.

And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled [it] on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words. Exodus 24:7-8​

Therefore, we have never been under the law of the 10 commandments. If you want to use those commandments as an example of righteousness, then do so and be blessed because they are holy and good for instruction into righteousness. But stating that we are under these commandments with an obligation to follow them just shows one's ignorance and unbelief.

 

[zone]

In the recent past, my wife and I have been involved in 2 other threads concerning the arguments of whether or not the law is relevant, or abolished.

has anyone said the Law is irrelevant?
oh dear.

the Law has not been abolished - it's full weight and force is in effect for everyone not in Christ.

i hear the Law taught every Sunday.
i hear the Gospel proclaimed every Sunday, too.
Amen.

 

[zone]

by denying the law, we have no alternative but to make up our own rules according to what is right and wrong.

our rules for living are found in the New Covenant, New Testament epistles and the words of the Lord.

liberty...not antinomianism.

 

[just-me]

our rules for living are found in the New Covenant, New Testament epistles and the words of the Lord.

liberty...not antinomianism.

There were several covenants in the OldTestament, blood, sandal, salt just to mention some. None of them replaces theprevious, but they were new and added to the recognition of God's promises toHis children. So the New covenant through Christ Jesus make all thepromises of God complete and not forsaken. Proof of that is knowing thatIsrael exits today. God promised.

 

[just-me]

has anyone said the Law is irrelevant?
oh dear.

the Law has not been abolished - it's full weight and force is in effect for everyone not in Christ.

i hear the Law taught every Sunday.
i hear the Gospel proclaimed every Sunday, too.
Amen.

I have heard that, on 2 other threads. Some have really gone that far to say that. They substitute "fulfill" with "it's
over" or "abolished". Amazing ain't it?

 

[just-me]

Jesus said these words while the old covenant was still in existence, and was making the point that the law was higher and greater than the heavens, and would by no means pass away until all justice and righteousness required under the old covenant was fulfilled. Which he accomplished; all of it. Therefore, the condition for the old to pass away has been fulfilled.

The "old" is works of the flesh. No one had any alternative. Now we do. Are you saying the old is the law, or the covenant? I am mentioning the law in my oridginal post. The old was to be under it, the new is to have a way out. Now the old is to identify why we need the way out of condemnation. There is still a reason for the old. All of it.

 

[zone]

There were several covenants in the OldTestament, blood, sandal, salt just to mention some. None of them replaces theprevious, but they were new and added to the recognition of God's promises toHis children. So the New covenant through Christ Jesus make all thepromises of God complete and not forsaken. Proof of that is knowing thatIsrael exits today. God promised.

??

Israel is all those in Christ.
the children of the Promise.
children of the flesh (whatever they call themselves) will not inherit.

Galatians 4
Sons and Heirs
1I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave,a though he is the owner of everything, 2but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. 3In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principlesb of the world. 4But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

~

Now this may be interpreted allegorically:

these women are two covenants.
One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery;
she is Hagar.

Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;
she corresponds to the present Jerusalem
for she is in slavery with her children.

But the Jerusalem above is free,
and she is our mother.

the son of the slave woman (present Jerusalem, Sinai)
shall not inherit with the son of the free woman (Jerusalem above, Jesus)

we are not children of the slave (children of the flesh)
but of the free woman (born according to the Spirit)

 

[zone]

I have heard that, on 2 other threads. Some have really gone that far to say that. They substitute "fulfill" with "it's
over" or "abolished". Amazing ain't it?

well, it's what happens if we aren't precise with our terms.

if you mean to say Old Covenant (Moses) , say that.
LAW requires some specifics as well.

which law?

Moses contains laws and reveal much about God.
all of God's word is good for instruction.

but the Old Covenant is abolished. gone. obsolete.

there is a better Covenant.
we still have commandments to guide us and the Spirit to sanctify us.

the Law can't save; can't sanctify; can't make us righteous.

Righteousness comes from GOD.
He either declares us righteous (enough), or forget it.
we're done.

no matter how much Law we think we abide by.

 

[just-me]

well, it's what happens if we aren't precise with our terms.

if you mean to say Old Covenant (Moses) , say that.
LAW requires some specifics as well.

which law?

I didn't mention the covenant in my original post, please read it again. Many use law and covenant synonymously. Which law you ask? I was talking about the whole of the law given to Moses.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

There were several covenants in the OldTestament, blood, sandal, salt just to mention some. None of them replaces theprevious, but they were new and added to the recognition of God's promises toHis children. So the New covenant through Christ Jesus make all thepromises of God complete and not forsaken. Proof of that is knowing thatIsrael exits today. God promised.

The new covenant supersedes all of the old covenants it fulfilled: circumcision, old blood covenant (law of Moses), salt covenant of David. Once a shadow has been superceded by the light, there is no going back to that which is no longer profitable.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I didn't mention the covenant in my original post, please read it again. Many use law and covenant synonymously. Which law you ask? I was talking about the whole of the law given to Moses.

You mean this law??

Eph 2: [SUP]14 [/SUP]For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, [SUP]15 [/SUP]having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

The law puts man at enmity with God, Because the ordanances, if broken, require punishment, condemnation, and death. Since man can not abide by the law, and has utterly failed. Christ obolished the law which held us at enmity with God by fulfilling the law.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The "old" is works of the flesh. No one had any alternative. Now we do. Are you saying the old is the law, or the covenant? I am mentioning the law in my oridginal post. The old was to be under it, the new is to have a way out. Now the old is to identify why we need the way out of condemnation. There is still a reason for the old. All of it.

You have never been under the old covenant. It is gone. The law of Moses was the law of the old covenant; so you have never been under it. The law of Moses doesn't stand by itself; it was the law of a covenant.

 

[zone]

I didn't mention the covenant in my original post, please read it again. Many use law and covenant synonymously. Which law you ask? I was talking about the whole of the law given to Moses.

the whole of the Law given to Moses was the old Covenant.
it's over.

it no longer exists as a Covenant one may be "in" with God.

there's only ONE.

the Laws remain, as God's Standards and Commandments will judge the unsaved.
their unbelief in Christ condemns them to that fate - Judgment by their works (as recorded in the Law - ALL OF IT).