There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

TrustinginHim777 · Feb 2, 2014

I am not real sure how to use this site,
just beginning, and not sure I will find your question (s).
If I don't answer, it is not because I didn't want to.

Arwen4CJ · Feb 2, 2014

TrustinginHim777 said:

Ok -- then did you want to pick one of your reasons, or would you like us to address your points in the same format that you used?

TrustinginHim777 · Feb 2, 2014

You can address any point you like.

Arwen4CJ · Feb 2, 2014

TrustinginHim777 said:

So would it be easier for you if we responded to your points in the same format you used?

Arwen4CJ · Feb 2, 2014

TrustinginHim777 said:

Thanks. I'm chatting to a friend right now, so I won't be able to respond for awhile....

TrustinginHim777 · Feb 2, 2014

Jesus is just whom He claimed to be and the reason He was crucified: The Son of God.
God's first creation and only Begotten Son, sent to earth as His 'representative, His Word'
to bring us back to His father. The Perfect Son, who gave Himself as the Perfect sacrifice
for our sins, and led the perfect moral life.....leading us and teaching us of His Father,
so we could freely choose to go to the Father through the Son.

starfield · Feb 2, 2014

TrustinginHim777 said:

Jesus is just whom He claimed to be and the reason He was crucified: The Son of God.
God's first creation and only Begotten Son, sent to earth as His 'representative, His Word'
to bring us back to His father. The Perfect Son, who gave Himself as the Perfect sacrifice
for our sins, and led the perfect moral life.....leading us and teaching us of His Father,
so we could freely choose to go to the Father through the Son.

Jesus was not created. He is the eternal God.

TrustinginHim777 · Feb 2, 2014

"This word 'heaven' is not speaking of the third heaven, God's domain, but the 'visible firmament, where the birds fly, etc. I think that is where we get all the confusion."

Bowman · Feb 2, 2014

TrustinginHim777 said:

All you did was to plagiarize this material verbatim form a Unitarian website.

Let's see how you defend the above assertion...

johnluke · Feb 2, 2014

Originally Posted by johnluke

Malek = Messenger, and in this case, a messenger of Yahweh ( in English, an angel of the LORD).

BOWMAN

The reason you are making a case of Malek Yahweh is because Ex. 3:2 says that an angel of the LORD appeared unto Moses from the burning bush. So you feel like you have to prove that Malek Yahweh is Yahweh.

I have another version of course. It is that when Moses looked up and saw the burning bush there was an angel of the LORD present in the bush. As Moses turned aside to see this great sight, it may have taken him some time to make it to the bush. By the time he got there, Elohim (God) had taken the place of the angel of the LORD and now Elohim talked to Moses. See Ex. 3:4

It is a bit confusing the way the different names are used, because an angel of Yahweh (Malek Yahweh) is in the bush in 3:2, then the actual Yahweh sees Moses turn aside in 3:3, but Elohim (God) is the one in 3:4 that then talks to Moses out of the bush and Elohim is used all the way to 3:7 and then its says that Yahweh (LORD) in 3:7 is talking to Moses. Then in 3:14 it reverts back to Elohim (God) who tells Moses I am, that I am. In 3:15 Moses is to tell the people that it is
Yahweh-Elohim (LORD God) the Elohim of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob that sent you.

So in this chapter it is hard to get a bead on just who is doing what. My main idea about that is the 2 members of the Godhead, Elohim and Yahweh can use their names interchangeably without missing a beat. Also Moses and the translators used their names interchangeably without perhaps thinking that thousands of years in the future it might be helpful to have been more precise.

Besides, because they are one God, it matters little.

Bowman · Feb 2, 2014

johnluke said:

Exodus 3.1 - 6

And Moses was feeding the flock of his father-in-law Jethro, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock behind the wilderness and came to the mountain of The Gods, to Horeb. And Malek Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the middle of a thorn bush. And he looked, and behold, the thorn bush was burning with fire, and the thorn bush was not burned up! And Moses said, I will turn aside now and see this great sight, why the thorn bush is not burned up. And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and Elohim called to him from the midst of the thorn bush, and said, Moses! Moses! And he said, Behold me. And He said, Do not come near here. Pull off your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground. And He said, I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face, for he feared to look upon The Gods.

These verses tell us plainly that Moses both saw and spoke with Malek Yahweh (i.e. God the Son) in the midst of the fire.

Observe that the Triune God occupies the Mount (Moses came to the mountain of all The Gods ‘Ha- Elohim’), as the terms Yahweh, Elohim, Malek Yahweh & Ha- Elohim (literally all The Gods!) are used interchangeably.

Who occupied the burning bush?

• Malek Yahweh
• Yahweh
• Elohim
• The Gods (Ha Elohim)

That Malek Yahweh is actually Yahweh, and that Moses spoke to Malek Yahweh, is proven in these verses, as thus…

Deut 4.15 - 19

Therefore you shall carefully watch over your souls, for you have not seen any likeness in the day Yahweh spoke to you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire, that you not deal corruptly, and make for yourselves a graven image, a likeness of any figure, the form of a male or female, the form of any animal in the earth; the form of any winged bird that flies in the heavens; the form of any creeping thing on the ground; the form of any fish in the waters under the earth; and that you not lift up your eyes towards the heavens and shall see the sun, and the heavens, and you be drawn away and worship them, and serve them; which Yahweh Elohim has allotted to all the peoples under all the heavens.

It really should not come as any surprise that Moses saw and spoke to The Son, as the NT also records that Abraham did likewise…

John 8.56 – 58

Your father Abraham leaped for joy that he should see My day, and he saw, and rejoiced.Then the Jews said to Him, You do not yet have fifty years, and have You seen Abraham?Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came to be, I AM!

Arwen4CJ · Feb 2, 2014

Bowman said:

Which website?

Bowman · Feb 2, 2014

Arwen4CJ said:

100 Scriptural Arguments | BiblicalUnitarian.com

VCO · Feb 2, 2014

homwardbound said:

I think you will find that NWL believes the body of Jesus was vaporized, not risen back to life. At least most Jehovah Witnesses that I have talked to, deny the literal physical resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ. PLUS many of them believe that the Jesus they teach, had only a spiritual resurrection, and therefore they also believe HE also has already returned spiritually, and indwells the Watchtower building controlling everything that is Published there, so that it is equal to the Word of God. Therefore they do not question the Watchtower's accuracy, even when we show them in KJV that the Watchtower has contradicted what GOD has said; they will automatically then assume we have interpreted the Bible wrong, because the Watchtower cannot be wrong.

Correct me if I am wrong NWL.

Matthew 24:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.

VCO · Feb 3, 2014

TrustinginHim777 said:

You will find it is easy to learn this site. Here is a couple of pointers:

When you want to reply to a post, it is a good idea to click on the "Reply With Quote", which posts a copy of the entire post. Then if it is only one sentence in the post you are replying to, you can always, delete the rest of that post, replacing it with three periods (period space period space period) indicating you deliberately left out the rest of the post. That will still leave the hyper-link (the blue box with two white arrows) so that others can quickly go back to the actual post you are referring to, so they can read the entire post. See the post at the top of page 84 for example.

If you are trying to find a post that someone said you did not answer, either ask the repost the question, or you can view their recent posts easily. Click on their name and then you will see the options and just click on "View Forum Posts" and they will be listed in chronological order with the most recent first.

Welcome aboard, by the way. You will enjoy posting here.

homwardbound · Feb 3, 2014

Arwen4CJ said:

No, rather thanks to Christ by and through his death he made us holy before God the Father, to birth us in the Spirit where no sin can occur, and we thus learn to be dead in the flesh and alive in the Spirit. God and Son have made me one with him because of them ,not me, I just believe God
[h=3]John 15[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. [SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. [SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. [SUP]9 [/SUP]As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. [SUP]11 [/SUP]These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. [SUP]12 [/SUP]This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. [SUP]17 [/SUP]These things I command you, that ye love one another.
Romans 15:6
that ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

homwardbound · Feb 3, 2014

TrustinginHim777 said:

This conclusion below all began when reading the Book of John in 1999 (again) and noticing a significant difference in Jesus and His Father by Name.
Then in the Psalms, I 'realized' when we sang songs in church about 'Praising His Name' and we were singing a 'Psalm of David. ' The Name referred to Could not be Jesus
as Jesus had not yet come...or been given a name for thousands of year to follow.

My conclusion from reading the scriptures, while discarding tradition, is that there is but one God.

Jesus is a separate entity from the Father...How can he be the Father?
The Holy Spirit cannot exist apart from the Father/God.
This has not changed, in any way, God's plan of salvation for us.

I have 100 reasons, but this reply will not accept so many characters
so, I will list 50 and try the other 50 on another reply.:

1. Because Jesus Christ is represented by the sacred writers to be as distinct a being from God the Father as one man is distinct from another. “It is written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one who bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me” (John 8:17 and 18).
2. Because he never said that he, himself was God, but, on the contrary, spoke of the Father, who sent him, as God, and as the only God. “This is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent” (John 17:3). This language our Saviour used in solemn prayer to “his Father and our Father.”
3. Because he is declared, in unnumbered instances, to be the Son of God. “And lo, a voice from heaven, saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased” (Matt. 3:17). Can a son be coeval (the same age) and the same with his father?
4. Because he is styled the Christ, or the anointed of God. “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power” (Acts 10:38). Is he who anoints the same with him who is anointed?
5. Because he is represented as a Priest. “Consider the ….High-Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus” (Heb. 3:1). The office of a priest is to minister to God. Christ, then, as a priest, cannot be God.
6. Because Christ is Mediator between the “One God,” and “men.” “For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Tim. 2:5).
7. Because, as the Saviour of men, he was sent by the Father. “And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world” (1 John 4:14).
8. Because he is an Apostle appointed by God. “Consider the Apostle,...Christ Jesus, who was faithful to him that appointed him” (Heb. 3:1 and 2).
9. Because Christ is represented as our intercessor with God. “It is Christ that died, yea, rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us” (Rom. 8:34).
10. Because the head of Christ is God. “I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of every woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God” (1 Cor. 11:3).
11. Because, in the same sense in which we are said to belong to Christ, Christ is said to belong to God. “And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s” (1 Cor. 3:23).
12. Because Christ says, “My father is greater than all” (John 10:29). Is not the father, then greater than the son?
13. Because he affirms, in another connection, and without the least qualification, “My Father is greater than I” (John 14:28).
14. Because he virtually denies that he is God, when he exclaims, “Why callest thou me Good? There is none good but one, that is God” (Matt. 19:17).
15. Because our Saviour, after having said, " I and my Father are one,” gives his disciples distinctly to understand that he did not mean one substance, equal in power and glory, but one only in affection and design, as clearly appears from the prayer he offers to his Father in their behalf, --“that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us” (John 17:21).
16. Because the Father is called the God of Christ as he is the God of Christians. Jesus saith unto her, “....Go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father; and to my God and your God” (John 20:17).
17. Because an Apostle says of God, in distinction from the “Lord Jesus Christ,” that He is the “only Potentate,” and that He “only hath immortality” (1 Tim. 6:15 and 16).
18. Because it is the express declaration of the same Apostle, that the Father is the one God, and there is none other. “Though there be that are called Gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) yet to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things” ( I Cor 8:5 and 6)).
19. Because the power which Christ possessed was, as him affirmed, given to him. “All power is given unto me” (Matt. 28:18).
20. Because he positively denies himself to be the author of his miraculous works, but refers them to the Father, or the holy spirit of God. “The Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works” (John 14:10). “If I cast out devils by the spirit of God” (Matt. 12:28).
21. Because he distinctly states, that these works bear witness, not to his own power, but that the Father had sent him (John 5:36).
22. Because he expressly affirms that the works were done, not in his own name, but in his Father’s name (John 10:25).
23. Because he asserts, that “him hath God the Father sealed,” i.e. to God the Father he was indebted for his credentials (John 6:27).
24. Because he declares that he is not the author of his own doctrine. “My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me” (John 7:16 and 17).
25. Because he represents himself as having been instructed by the Father. “As my Father hath taught me, I speak these things” (John 8:28).
26. Because he refers invariable to the Father as the origin of the authority by which he spoke and acted. “The Father hath given to the Son authority” (John 5:26 and 27).
27. Because he acknowledges his dependence on his heavenly Father for example and direction in all his doings. “The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do” (John 5:19). “The Father loveth the Son, and showth him all things that himself doeth” (John 5:20).
28. Because he says, “I seek not mine own glory; but I honor my Father” (John 8:49 and 50).
29. Because he declares, “If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoreth me” (John 8:54).
30. Because an Apostle declares, that in Christ dwelt all fullness, because it so pleased the Father (Col 1:19).
31. Because Christ is uniformly represented in the Scriptures, not as the primary, but the intermediate cause of all things relating to our salvation. “One God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him” (1 Cor 8:6).
32. Because he declares, “I am not come of myself” into the world, “for I proceeded forth and came from God” (John 8:42; 7:28). Jesus knowing… that he “came from God, and went to God” (John 13:3).
33. Because he affirms that he had not the disposal of the highest places in his own kingdom. “To sit on my right and on my left is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father” (Matt. 20:23).
34. Because our Saviour, referring his disciples to a future time, when they would understand more accurately concerning him, expressly declares that then they would know him to be entirely dependent upon the Father. “When ye have lifted up the Son of man (i.e. crucified him), then shall ye know that I am he (i.e. the Messiah), and that I do nothing of myself, but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things" (John 8:28).
35. Because our Saviour always professed to have no will of his own, but to be ever entirely guided and governed by the will of his heavenly Father. “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me” (John 6:38).
36. Because he expressly denies that he is possessed of Divine attribute of independent existence. “As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father” (John 6:57).
37. Because he expressly disclaims the possession of the Divine attribute of underived existence. “As the Father hath life in himself, so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself” (John 5:26).
38. Because he positively denies that he is possessed of the Divine attribute of omnipotence. “I can of mine own self do nothing” (John 5:30).
39. Because he expressly disclaims the possession of the Divine attribute of omniscience. “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but my Father only” (Matt. 24:36; Mark 13:32).
40. Because Christ is said in the Scriptures to have been “tempted of the devil” (Matt. 4:1). But “God can not be tempted with evil” (James 1:13).
41. Because it is related of our Saviour, that “he continued all night in prayer to God” (Luke 6:12). Why should Christ thus pray, if he himself were God?
42. Because, in presence of a numerous company before the resurrection, he gave thanks to the Father for having heard him. “Father, I thank thee that thou has heard me, and I knew that thou hearest me always” (John 11:41 and 42).
43. Because Jesus besought his Father to glorify him. “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thyself with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." (John 17:5) . The one who prayed to God to glorify him, cannot be God.
44. Because he implored that, if it were possible, the bitter cup might pass from him, adding, “Nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt” (Matt. 26:39).
45. Because he said, “My God, my God, why hast Thous forsaken me?” (Matt. 27:46). Can he who uttered this be the Supreme God?
46. Because he never paid his adoration to himself, the Son, nor to the Holy Ghost, as he should have done, had the Son and the Holy Ghost been God; but always to the Father.
47. Because he never instructed his disciples to worship himself or the Holy Ghost, but the Father, and the Father only. “When ye pray, say Our Father which art in heaven” (Luke 11:2). “In that day, ye shall ask me nothing. Whatsoever ye ask of the Father in my name” (John 16:23). “The hour cometh and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him” (John 4:23).
48. Because it was not the practice of the Apostles to pay religious homage to Christ, but to God the Father through Christ. “I thank God through Jesus Christ” (Rom. 7:25). “To God only wise, be glory through Christ” (Rom 16:27). “I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Eph. 3:14).
49. Because St. Peter, immediately after being filled with the Holy Spirit (holy spirit) on the Day of Pentecost thus addressed the Jews: “Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles, and wonders, and signs which God did by him, in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain; whom God hath raised up” (Acts 2:22-24).
50. Because St. Paul expressly states that, “all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ” (2 Cor. 5:18).

They are separate, yet one just like take a cherry pie, cut in it three distinct parts and yet the filling just flows right back together amazingly
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

homwardbound · Feb 3, 2014

TrustinginHim777 said:

Here are the other 50 reasons that it appears that Jesus is not the Father and God, but rather His Only Begotten Son, as he himself stated.

51. Because the same Apostle gives “thanks to God, who giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Cor. 15:57).
52. Because it is said that it is “to the glory of God the Father,” that “every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is the Lord” (Phil. 2:11).
53. Because the Scriptures affirm that “Christ glorified not himself to be made a high priest, but He (glorified him) who said unto him, Thou art my Son, this day I have begotten thee” (Heb. 5:5).
54. Because it is expressly asserted that God gave to Christ the Revelation which was made to the author of the Apocalypse (Rev. 1:1).
55. Because an Apostle speaks of Christ, only as the image of God. “Who is the image of the invisible God” (Col 1:15; 2 Cor. 4:4). It would be absurd to call anyone his own image.
56. Because Christ is stated to be “the first-born of every creature” ( Col 1:15).
57. Because he is said to be “the beginning of the creation of God” (Rev 3:14).
58. Because the Scriptures affirm, in so many words, that “Jesus was made a little lower than the angels” (Heb. 2:9). Can God become lower than his creatures?
59. Because Peter declares that “Christ received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, this is my beloved son” (2 Peter 1:17).
60. Because it is represented as necessary that the Saviour of mankind should “be made like unto his brethren” (Heb. 2:17).
61. Because, in the Epistle to the Hebrews, Christ is compared with Moses in a manner that would be impious if he were the Supreme God. “For this man (Christ) was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch” (Heb. 3:3).
62. Because he is represented as being the servant, the chosen, the beloved of God, and the recipient of God’s spirit. “Behold, my servant, whom I have chosen, in whom my soul is well pleased; I will put my spirit upon him” (Matt. 12:18).
63. Because he himself expressly declares that it was in consequence of his doing what pleased the Father, that the Father was with him and did not leave him alone. “He that sent me is with me; the Father hath not left me alone, for I do always those things that please him” (John 8:29).
64. Because he is said to have “increased in wisdom, and in favor with God and man” (Luke 2:52).
65. Because he speaks of himself as one who had received commands from the Father. “The Father, who sent me, he gave me a commandment” (John 12:49).
66. Because he is represented as obeying the Father, and as having been “obedient unto death” (Phil 2:8) “Even as the Father said unto me, so I speak” (John 12:50). “I have kept my Father’s commandments” (John 15:10).
67. Because Christ “Learned obedience by the things he suffered,” and through sufferings was made perfect by God (Heb. 5:8).
68. Because he is spoken of in the Scriptures as the first born among many brethren (Rom. 8:29). Has God brethren?
69. Because Christ calls everyone who obeys God his brother. “Whosoever shall do the will of my Father in heaven, the same is my brother” (Matt. 12:50).
70. Because he offers to the faithful the like distinction and honor that himself has with the Father. “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am sit down with my Father in his throne” (Rev. 3:21).
71. Because God, in the later ages, hath spoken by his Son, and appointed him heir of all things (Heb. 1:2) 72. Because Christ is styled the first-begotten of the dead. (Rev. 1:5).
73. Because it is declared that God raised him from the dead. “This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we are all witnesses” (Acts 2:32; Rom. 10:9 and 10).
74. Because God poured out upon the Apostles the Holy Spirit, through Jesus Christ (Titus 3:6).
75. Because the reason assigned for the Holy Spirit not having been received earlier, is that Jesus was not then glorified. “The Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) was not yet given because that Jesus was not yet glorified” (John 7:39).
76. Because it is affirmed that Christ was exalted by God to be a Prince and a Saviour (Acts 5:31).
77. Because God made that same Jesus, who was crucified, both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36).
78. Because God gave him a name which is above every name (Phil. 2:9).
79. Because Christ was ordained of God to be the judge of the quick and the dead (Acts 10:42).
80. Because God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ (Rom. 2:16).
81. Because all judgment is committed to Christ by the Father (John 5:22).
82. Because our Saviour grounds the importance of his judgment solely upon the circumstances, that it is not exclusively his own judgment which he pronounces, but that of the Father who sent him. “If I judge, my judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me” (John 8:16).
83. Because it is said, that, when he was received up into heaven, he “sat on the right hand of God” (Mark 16:19).
84. Because St. Paul affirms, that Christ, even since his ascension, “liveth unto God,” and “liveth by the power of God” (Rom. 6:10; 2 Cor. 12:4).
85. Because it is affirmed of Christ, that “when all things shall be subdued under him then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all” (1 Cor. 15:28).
86. Because the Apostle John asserts that “no man hath seen God at any time”; which is not true, if Christ were God (John 1:18).
87. Because, in the prophecies of the Old Testament that relate to Christ, he is spoken of as a being distinct from and inferior to God (Deut. 18:15; John 1:45).
88. Because the Jews never expected that any other than a being distinct from and inferior to God was to be their Messiah, and yet there is no evidence that our Saviour ever so much as hinted to them that this expectation was erroneous.
89. Because it does not appear from the Scriptures, that the Jews, except in two instances (See #90), ever opposed our Saviour on the ground that he pretended to be God or equal with God; whereas, had it been his custom to assume such identity or equality, in his conversation with a people so strongly attached to the doctrine of the divine unity, he would have found himself involved in a perpetual controversy with them on this point, some traces of which must have appeared in the New Testament.
90. Because in these two instances, when charged, in the one case, with making himself God, and in the other, with making himself equal with God, he positively denies the charges. In reply to the charge of assuming to be equal with God, he says immediately, “The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do”; and directly after, “I can of mine own self do nothing” (John 5:19 and 30). In answer to the charge of making himself God, he appeals to the Jews in substance thus: Your own Scriptures call Moses a god, and your magistrates gods; I am surely not inferior to them, yet I did not call myself God, but only the Son of God(John 10:34-36) 91. Because, had his immediate disciples believe him to be the Almighty, would they have been so familiar with him, have argued with him, betrayed him, denied him, fled from him, and left him to be dragged to the cross?
92. Because the Apostles, after they had been filled with the Holy Ghost (holy spirit) on the day of Pentecost, did not preach that Christ was God; but preached what was altogether inconsistent with such a doctrine (Acts 2:22; 13:23; 17:3 and 31; 22:8).
93. Because there is no evidence to prove that the first converts to Christianity ever incurred the imputation of idolatry from the Jews, as they must have done had they believed and taught that the Son, as well as the Father, is Jehovah; while it is notorious that this imputation has been among the most common of the Jewish reproaches against Christians, since the Trinity became a doctrine of the Church.
94. Because there are in the New Testament seventeen passages, wherein the Father is styled one or only God, while there is not a single passage in which the Son is so styled.
95. Because there are 320 passages in which the Father is absolutely, and by way of eminence, called God; while there is not one in which the Son is thus called.
96. Because there are 105 passages in which the Father is denominated God, with peculiarly high titles and epithets, whereas the Son is not once denominated.
97. Because there are 90 passages wherein it is declared that all prayers and praises ought to be offered to Him, and that everything ought to be ultimately directed to his honor and glory; while of the Son no such declaration is ever made.
98. Because of 1,300 passages in the New Testament wherein the word God is mentioned, not one necessarily implies the existence of more than one person in the Godhead, or that this one is any other than the Father.
99. Because the passages wherein the Son is declared, positively, or by clearest implication, to be subordinate to the Father, deriving his being from Him, receiving from Him his divine power, and acting in all things wholly according to His will, are in number above 300.
100. Because, in a word, the supremacy of the Father, and the inferiority of the Son, is the simple, unembarrassed, and current doctrine of the Bible; whereas, that of their equality or identity is clothed in mystery, encumbered with difficulties, and dependent, at the best, upon few passages for support.

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Understood yet they are as one together in agreement together and this agreement makes them one in Spirit, just as all those that have been Baptized in Spirit are:
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Yet separate just as the body has many parts, yet it is one body is it not?
Seeing from God's viewpoint this might be revealed as we are to after belief to renew our minds to God's vantage point through Christ's finished work of the cross, that includes the resurrected Christ
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Ephesians 4:23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Romans 8:4 that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

homwardbound · Feb 3, 2014

starfield said:

Jesus spoke of his Father as the only one good and tha tis who he followed through the Spirit of God that came upon him at water Baptismand John the Baptist announced the Messiah has arrived, the man Christ to redeem us to get new life once he cleared the deck for us and washed us clean so we can go to Father through Christ's finished work at the cross, And Father seals us with the Holy Spirit of promise that begins teaching us truth over error, and we get set free in Father, Son and Holy Spirit
That is the order that I see that has set me free to trust Father all in all and give all credit to God for this amazing salvation that I had nothing to do with
Thank you Father, and Son. knowing you are one in the Spirit of you Father

homwardbound · Feb 3, 2014

TrustinginHim777 said:

Thank you so scripture I am laying down

[h=3]2 Corinthians 12:1-6[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

12 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. [SUP]2 [/SUP]I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

such an one caught up to the third heaven. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

[SUP]4 [/SUP]how that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

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