thy law is the truth

john832 · Jun 12, 2013

Interesting, but I think you missed the point, the verse says...

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Till heaven and earth pass. I walked out this morning and put my feet on the eartj and looked up in the sky adn guess what? They are still there. Adn as far as "all" goes...

G3956
πᾶς
pas
pas
Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: - all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X throughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

It really does mean all, including the second coming.

Laodicea · Jun 13, 2013

homwardbound said:

You qouted "Psalms 119:142 KJV
(142) Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth."

What Law are you saying is truth, and what Law are you saying to follow when after the new Covenant death and resurrection the Law Ten commandments ands ceremonial Laws are fulfilled
Christ came to fulfill law and Prophets, he did this and then went to the cross and died,
Matthew 5:17[ Christ Fulfills the Law ] “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
After doing this he went to the cross and yelled out it

John 19:28[ It Is Finished ] After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!”
John 19:30So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

Law all fulfilled, what did this do at his death
Hebrews 9:15And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Hebrews 9:16
[ The Mediator’s Death Necessary ] For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Hebrews 9:17For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

So are we under Law today after the cross form God once we believe?
Romans 10:4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

So righteousness comes form God through Christ at the cross, especially the resurrected part or don't we know
Romans 6:3Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
Romans 6:4Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

By Faith we do this , not by works
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

God gets all the credit, we credit this to God not selfs, ever. It is God's finished work for us to praise God, we did nothiong except come to belief, and works of God burst through in the Love of God towards every man

Fulfilled does not mean done away. We still have a high priest who is Christ. We still need a sacrifice but, Jesus is our sacrifice. We still have passover but, Jesus is our passover. We still have the law it is not done away. The text says "Thy Law is the truth" So you want to change the text?" Then it could read "Thy Law was the truth". God does not change so truth does not change.

Widdekind · Jun 13, 2013

First, Jesus specifically stated that the Prophesies of Matt 24 would occur within the lives, of those then listening to him, i.e. 1st century AD. The cosmic-sounding references, are all allusions, to Apocalyptic Prophesies, in the OT. Jesus was not saying, that the fabric of space-time would split apart, casting our star system out into hyper-space. Jesus was alluding to OT Apocalyptic Prophesies, implying that He was the Messiah, at the Prophesied "end of the age (eon)".

Second, Judgement Day does not follow immediately after the Christian Millennium. Instead, Satan marshals & amasses Gog & Magog, for a "little time" (mikros chronos). But, in Rev 6, the time that the souls of the Holy martyrs must wait, under the Altar of God in heaven, is also a "little time" (mikros chronos). That's until their Ascension to thrones, with the 24 elders, in Rev 20, at the beginning of the Millennium. So, from Rev 6 = 1st century AD, to Rev 20 = Millennium = Constantine = 4th century AD = mikros chronos. So, mikros chronos corresponds to several centuries. So, Satan is Prophesied hundreds & hundreds of years of growing global domination, until the Mighty White Throne ends earth.

From the fall of Constantinople in the 15th century, to today, has been a mikros chronos. Uncritically accepted, God in heaven will emerge there-from, some-time "Biblically soon", and "fire from heaven" = Game Over.

NJ = Rev 21-22 seemingly symbolizes something after "Game Over" in Rev 20 (yet to occur); and visually symbolizes the Church, as a Temple City composed of Jasper-like gem-stones, each symbolizing individual Christians (Eph 1-2), in some completed form, spanning some significant swath of real-estate on earth, 2400km across if interpreted literally. That was the size of the Byzantine empire, in the eastern Mediterranean, so perhaps NJ = Byzantine empire, visualized in spiritual symbolism, i.e. an empire of millions of Christians, in which tabernacled Divine Presence, for 1000 years.

Either way, the End Times = Rev 20:7-9 = mikros chronos = hundreds of years = 15th century AD thru today to ????

The claim, is that the Mighty White Throne (megas leukos thronos) of God will emerge from heaven, and will never have been humorous, for even a moment, at any time.

john832 said:

Widdekind · Jun 13, 2013

The Greek words for "sky & land come-aside" (or, "heaven & earth") seemingly suggest "swept aside". Those words from Matt 5 = 2 Pet 3 = Rev 20.

So, straight-forwardly, nothing passes from the Law, until Judgement. But, Jesus is greater than the Law, e.g. Lord of Sabbath. And, those who follow Jesus are granted Grace / Charity, which ex-honerates them from past sins. But,

all those who sinned under the law will be judged by the law (Rom 2)

So, at Judgement, all those who earnestly believed in Jesus = Messiah + Lord, will be "Judged leniently", according to Grace. All others will be "Judged harshly", according to the Law, i.e. each-and-every of the 613 Metzivot. Those people's problem will be, that

But now, apart from the law, God’s righteousness has been revealed—attested by the Law and the Prophets —that is, God’s righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ, to all who believe, since there is no distinction. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. They are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus (Rom 3)

So, Scripture seems to state, that, if you "want to play it safe", then acknowledge Jesus = The Messiah, and also accept that Jesus = Lord. Otherwise, you will in fact, be held accountable, for each & every one of the 613 Metzivot. Most probably, you mucked up somewhere; God will have noticed; you will be Judged "Guilty", and cast into Hell.

john832 said:

Widdekind · Jun 13, 2013

people who sin, according to the Torah, sin, and will be Judged "sinners" at Doomsday.

the only exception, is for those who acknowledge Jesus = Christ, and also accept Jesus = Lord -- they will be "Judged leniently", according to Grace, not Law.

Laodicea said:

homwardbound · Jun 13, 2013

john832 said:

Just out of curiosity, when you fill a glass full of water (fulfill it) do you smash it? Or has it become more than it was before fulfilling it. Christ came to fill the Law full with a deeper meaning, yet to many, fulfilling the Law seems to mean obliterating it. Just to add a little scripture to this...

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

magnify:

H1431
גּדל
gâdal
gaw-dal'
A primitive root; properly to twist (compare H1434), that is, to be (causatively make) large (in various senses, as in body, mind, estate or honor, also in pride): - advance, boast, bring up, exceed, excellent, be (-come, do, give, make, wax), great (-er, come to . . estate, + things), grow (up), increase, lift up, magnify (-ifical), be much set by, nourish (up), pass, promote, proudly [spoken], tower.

honourable:

H142
אדר
'âdar
aw-dar
A primitive root; to expand, that is, be great or (figuratively) magnificent: - (become) glorious, honourable.

What part of this statement indicates He did away with the Law? or how about the following...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I would tread very softly around the idea that teaching people that you don't have to obey that old "Jewish" Law is acceptable.

Romans 3:31Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

I have establish the differance in the letter and the Spirit, which is the deeper meaning
2 Corinthians 3:6who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

homwardbound · Jun 13, 2013

john832 said:

The law and the prophets concerning Christ is waht is fulfilled in bringing the ones that beleive in Christ beiing our redeemer
Christ's death, burial, and resurrection is what brought the new covenant that we are uinder here today, new Laws, and a new priesthood, that the Saints of the Old Testament were looking forward to as in King David and Job
Psalm 100:4Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, And into His courts with praise. Be thankful to Him, and bless His name.
Job 19:25For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;

Christ by the cross redeemed us form the curse of the Law, even though the Law itself is Holy, the curse part is Flesh is weak and when Law flows through flesh, flesh can't do it
Mark 14:38Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

So therefore flesh beikng weak and the Law being perfect, flesh need to be out of the way, and by Christ dying at the cross is become our death of our flesh weakness and by the resurrection, made new alive in the Spirit we can serve God as God is meant to be served in Spirit and truth, this being the only way God can be served
Colossians 2:13And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
1 Peter 4:6For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Romans 6:4Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

homwardbound · Jun 13, 2013

john832 said:

The law is still in effect for the unbelievers, it is the Law that shows ones inability to keep it perfectly, so they can turn to God through Christ and be perfect in their new born again Spirt where we serve God with the hidden man of our heart and if we serve sin after knowing the differance it would oonly be with this body of sin and death,
Romans 7:25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Galatians 5:13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Hebrews 2:3How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

homwardbound · Jun 13, 2013

Laodicea said:

So what Law do you speak of the new Laws or the letter of?
Romans 7:6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Job 33:4The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

2 Corinthians 3:6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Revelation 2:7He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

There is a big differance between letter of and the Spirit of

Laodicea · Jun 13, 2013

homwardbound said:

The question should not be what law am I speaking of, but rather what law is the text in Psalms speaking of?
Psalms 119:142 KJV
(142) Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

This is the meaning of the word law in this verse, so then according to the Bible in this verse what is truth?

john832 · Jun 13, 2013

homwardbound said:

The law is still in effect for the unbelievers, it is the Law that shows ones inability to keep it perfectly, so they can turn to God through Christ and be perfect in their new born again Spirt where we serve God with the hidden man of our heart and if we serve sin after knowing the differance it would oonly be with this body of sin and death,
Romans 7:25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Galatians 5:13For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Hebrews 2:3How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

So if the Law has passed away for believers, here is a question, what is the offense if a believer has a go at his neighbors wife?

Widdekind · Jun 14, 2013

so, those who obey the "Spirit of the Law" (and, so, acknowledge & accept Jesus = Christ) are Judged according to Grace; all others are Judged according to the "Letter of the Law", to Hell (since "all fall short of the Judgement [doxa] of God").

Note, that Rom 3:23 = "all fall short of the Judgement of God"
Judgement = doxa = Ortho-doxy = "opinion, estimation, Judgement" of God
Rom 3:23 says, according to God, all are heterodox = heretics = doomed to Hell
the only exception = be Judged leniently according to "Grace", by obeying the "Spirit"

homwardbound said:

homwardbound · Jun 14, 2013

Laodicea said:

In the new covenant under new laws the law still remaiins the truth, as what king david was talking aobut before Christ came is LOVE, by Faith in God and he said in psalms 100:4 seeing a far off entering God's courts with thanksgving and praise, by Christ, and as Job claimed as well knkowing he had sinned and failed as well, saying he knew his redeener lives
Psalm 100:4Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, And into His courts with praise. Be thankful to Him, and bless His name.
Job 19:25For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;

These Saints by beleif, saw afar off and gave praise to God, we today are looking back as has taken place what they were looking forward to. We have the victory in Christ past tense, we can rest in God now knowing it has taken place and pronouncing it by the Holy Ghost living through us as the Holy Ghost did through Christ the whole time while here on earth. Christ sent us this gift, read John 16.

Today after the death burial and resurrection of Christ we are in a new covenant actually not new,released from te letter of the law that was put in place to show all our need for God, because none of us are perfect, without the Law no being aware our sinfulness, with the law we are aware and tihs shows us our need for a Savior, which is Chirst.
New Covenant and new law with new priesthood
Hebrews 9:15

And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance

Hebrews 9:16
[ The Mediator’s Death Necessary ] For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Hebrews 9:17For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

Hebrews 7:11[ Need for a New Priesthood ] Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?
Hebrews 7:12For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

Widdekind · Jun 14, 2013

wait -- the Greek NT word doxa (G1391) is as important as the word "Ortho-doxy"

doxa (G1391) = "opinion" = Rom 3:23, "all fall short of the opinion of God"
Ortho-doxy = Right opinion

krino (G2919) = "to judge", "to pronounce an opinion of right vs. wrong" = Acts 15:19, Bishop James judged

[HR][/HR]
in case anybody cares, the Greek OT (LXX) reads rather different, from the Hebrew OT (M), for Amos 9:11+, which Bishop James cited, in his judgement (Acts 15). According to the Orthodox Study Bible, Amos 9:11+ translates as:

which sounds friendlier, than than the actual (?) Hebrew version.

homwardbound · Jun 14, 2013

john832 said:

One that has come to full undrstanding of what God did, won't, because one knows no harm to their neighbor, even though I am sure temptation does come.
So let us see what Joseph did by Faith, or have you read about Joseph, that was first sold by his brothers and ended up in egypt, having favor there and it was Potiphers wife that wanted a go at Joseph, and Joseph by Faith even though Joseph was mistreated by his Brothers did not sucumb to evil and no law was even yet in place. He refused and she had him jailed unfairly. He spent thirteen years in Jail, continuing to trust God.
So again true born again believers won't and can't, becuase of who they know they are. Now this doesn't mean these are sinless, no becasue if one gets that idea and is or has become boastful and or proud, then that one needs humbling.
Now for those that are on their way and have troubler in this area, if God has given them God's free gift, then God will be at work trying to show them truth and have them think on this wise, if this happened to you by someone else having a go at your wife how would you feel? I know how I would feel, so I do not have a go at another, thinking first about the consequences of what this would do to the other, having care, compassion.
Loving my neighbor as myself, and lets go a little deeper, as much as God loves me.
So depending on how much one believes that God loves them is a direct result in how one will love others and no deeper than their view of God's love towards them.
Usually the accusers, not always, have the same problem of what they accuse others with

Romans 2:1[ God’s Righteous Judgment ] Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

[h=3]Romans 1:18-32[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness[/h][SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, [SUP]21 [/SUP]because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Professing to be wise, they became fools, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, [SUP]25 [/SUP]who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; [SUP]29 [/SUP]being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, [SUP]30 [/SUP]backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [SUP]31 [/SUP]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; [SUP]32 [/SUP]who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

God just love you, you and you over there, all
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son and who so ever beleiveth shall be saved. This is where the new life in chirst begins believe, one sees and thus recieves, no other way to the truth, it starts with believing first in God.

john832 · Jun 14, 2013

Widdekind said:

Uh, where?

john832 · Jun 14, 2013

homwardbound said:

Temptation for what? Temptation to sin? Sin is the transgression of the Law...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Now if the Law does not apply to the converted then there is no sin, therefore no temptation. In fact, with no Law, there is no sin and having a go at the neighbor's spouse is not sin...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

No Law = no sin.

So, I again ask, what is the offense if a believer has a go at the neighbor's spouse?

None! That is without this...

Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Now, what did Christ say about adultery?

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Hmmm,

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Christ's teaching is not complicated. Life has ten basic rules to follow. If you break one there is a penalty to be paid, death. Christ paid the penalty in our stead so that we do not have to die. The Law is not done away, the penalty can be paid for us by Christ and we are no longer under the death penalty (under the Law) but this is not license to break the Laws with utter abandon.

homwardbound · Jun 14, 2013

Widdekind said:

It is not those that obey the Spirit of the Law then you then are still in the way of God doing God's work through you as the disciples knew of the resurrected Christ for Christ hung around them for forty days after the resurrection teaching them all things of why all this had to take place. So why did he say wait for the Holy Ghost? They knew truth right? Why did they have to wait? Because no one comes to the cross of Christ, except the Father draw them, by what? The Holy Ghost
The battle today still is flesh sin nature vrs, God's Spirit
Belief in what God did and asking God to take over is following God and trusting God to do in you, me and all that beleive, what we know we can't do in ourselves, which is be perfect, so we give up and ask God to be perfect for us as Christ was and is. So God takes up further residence in those that beleive, yet only hid God in their heart, now God by the Holy Ghost lives not only in them but through them as in the day of Pentecost.
We are in a new Covenant Hebrews 9:15-17, under new laws and have a new priesthood
Hebrews 9:15And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Hebrews 7:11[ Need for a New Priesthood ] Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?
Hebrews 7:12For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

john832 · Jun 14, 2013

homwardbound said:

This is a common teaching, the believer won't do wrong because his nature is changed. Only problem with this is that it is not scriptural...

Jas 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

Now this is speaking of the spirit in man, not the Holy Spirit.

Paul said that his nature was to do wrong and that he had to fight it...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
His only hope of deliverance from this wretched nature was Christ.

1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

1Ti 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

Why, if a believer's nature is all sweetness and purity, would Paul instruct us to flee these things? Why would we have to FIGHT the good fight? If we automatically do good, why is there SO MUCH INSTRUCTION in the New Testament about how to live and how to fight the good fight? Here is why...

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Conversion is a lifelong process, not a one time event...

Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Not don't misunderstand the word perfect here, it does not mean perfection in the sense that we use it today (this is 1611 English after all)...

perfect:

G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

Thayer has it...

G5046
τέλειος
teleios
Thayer Definition:
1) brought to its end, finished
2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3) perfect
4) that which is perfect
4a) consummate human integrity and virtue
4b) of men
4b1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G5056
Citing in TDNT: 8:67, 1161

It means mature, and then he says that if we have any thing contrary, God will show it to us IF...

if we are...

Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

What is thus minded? He was referring to the previous verses...

Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Not counting ourselves as those who have arrived but as those who are pressing forward toward the mark...

2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

homwardbound · Jun 14, 2013

john832 said:

I am sorry you apparently do not see what christ did at the cross as John the Babtist was a witness to this miraculous event in saying John 1:29[ The Lamb of God ] The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
that was going to take place where our sins and lawless acts are behind his back never to see again, done by the Son Jesus Christ, so Father can today deal with each of us individually on the basis of a new nature he gave us by the resurrection of christ being by belief born again after the death cleared us of all unrighteousness of Christ. Christ took it all on himself so we can today be born again
Romans 5:10
For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Hebrews 8:12
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
Hebrews 10:17then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

Hebrews 7:27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Hebrews 9:9Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Hebrews 9:23It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Hebrews 9:26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself

thy law is the truth

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