Total Depravity
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so what haven't i thought through?
you were guilt-tripping about people being comfortable in church.
not everybody goes on missions.
and we go to church to worship God and hear the word and take the Lord's Supper.
we love and serve our neighbours by being decent and working (dentists, janitors, bakers). and by not pretending we aren't christians when its 'uncomfortable'.
so what's the guilt trip?
you were guilt-tripping about people being comfortable in church.
not everybody goes on missions.
and we go to church to worship God and hear the word and take the Lord's Supper.
we love and serve our neighbours by being decent and working (dentists, janitors, bakers). and by not pretending we aren't christians when its 'uncomfortable'.
so what's the guilt trip?
Seeing how that God sent His Son to crucify the flesh, do you think that God would raise up a local church so that believers could be comfortable in their flesh? Do you think He is going to raise up pastor-teachers that preach the word and doctrine to appease the flesh and make provisions for it? I doooooonnn't thiiiiinnnk so! That would be humanistic and living like Cain did, worshiping God and sacrificing his way and God rejecting his worship.
When Christ was here with His disciples, He did not pamper their flesh and often offended them greatly, though He loved them. Many like to settle into these little churches, big ones also, that pamper the flesh so that they can live just the way they want. If they want to socially drink and have a few strong drinks on the side when on vacation, they do and when they come back they don't have to worry about the preacher saying anything against it because he does it also. There are others areas as well that I won't mention.
I'm not talking about those that fail through the weakness of the flesh or through a cycle of sin that is in the members of their body who know it's not right but allow it to have dominion. I'm talking about those that condone and justify these practices of the flesh and tell you that they have liberty from God to do it, when they don't have liberty because God never gave it to them or anyone else. That is the kind of activity that these churches promote that allow the flesh to reign in the pulpit and on the tables of the mind and heart and many of them have knowledge and doctrine coming out of their ears.
When Christ was here with His disciples, He did not pamper their flesh and often offended them greatly, though He loved them. Many like to settle into these little churches, big ones also, that pamper the flesh so that they can live just the way they want. If they want to socially drink and have a few strong drinks on the side when on vacation, they do and when they come back they don't have to worry about the preacher saying anything against it because he does it also. There are others areas as well that I won't mention.
I'm not talking about those that fail through the weakness of the flesh or through a cycle of sin that is in the members of their body who know it's not right but allow it to have dominion. I'm talking about those that condone and justify these practices of the flesh and tell you that they have liberty from God to do it, when they don't have liberty because God never gave it to them or anyone else. That is the kind of activity that these churches promote that allow the flesh to reign in the pulpit and on the tables of the mind and heart and many of them have knowledge and doctrine coming out of their ears.
What makes you believe that John the baptist was born without an old sin nature and from parents that had none either? John was a man who did not have an immaculate conception and was concieved in sin just as all other men. No man had the calling that God gave him from the womb, but he was not without sin and he was beheaded so that others could be baptised unto Christ and His baptism. He was a forerunner, a righteous man, but not the Christ. The same goes for Job, he was not without an old sin nature as well, nor was his offspring, and he did curse the day that he was born (Job 14:1, Job 3).
I will have to agree with you on this.
I have a history book that was written in 1883 by the confederate vice pres, Ive searched the book and can find little on its printing.
But I have read it I am amazed at what history was, and how we know it now.
This is givng some liscence for the writers perspective as well.
What we know now is far from the truth, and what Ive read trully shows that the motives have been much about flesh.
Yet there were those that followed and brought what is good, simply because they obeyed God.
But even in these, it was always subject to.
God bless.
pickles
I have a history book that was written in 1883 by the confederate vice pres, Ive searched the book and can find little on its printing.
But I have read it I am amazed at what history was, and how we know it now.
This is givng some liscence for the writers perspective as well.
What we know now is far from the truth, and what Ive read trully shows that the motives have been much about flesh.
Yet there were those that followed and brought what is good, simply because they obeyed God.
But even in these, it was always subject to.
God bless.
pickles
Saddly so many see depravity as being about them being some how condemned, now without Jesus Christ Our Lord ,this would be the outcome.
But , when one looks to Jesus, He reviels this depravity to one, not to condemn, but so that one will know the glory of God and the gift of grace we recieve in Jesus.
We are given this knowladge to bring His glory!
His presance so that we will know to reject the flesh, die to it, so we can know all that is the grace, love and life in Jesus.
Can any one here, see anything good in self, with out Jesus?
I know I cannot, and even now Jesus reviels this flesh, so that I , all of us, will know what we are called to in Jesus!
Like psalm 23 speaks to, He leads me in paths of rightousness for His names sake!
God bless.
pickles
But , when one looks to Jesus, He reviels this depravity to one, not to condemn, but so that one will know the glory of God and the gift of grace we recieve in Jesus.
We are given this knowladge to bring His glory!
His presance so that we will know to reject the flesh, die to it, so we can know all that is the grace, love and life in Jesus.
Can any one here, see anything good in self, with out Jesus?
I know I cannot, and even now Jesus reviels this flesh, so that I , all of us, will know what we are called to in Jesus!
Like psalm 23 speaks to, He leads me in paths of rightousness for His names sake!
God bless.
pickles
The Lord gives and the Lord takes away.
The Lord obviously has a tender heart toward children. He says you must come to me like a little child. He refers to His people as "little ones". A child is not stuck in a doctrine. A child is open and ready for truth.
Anything other than this would just be speculation, for me.
The Lord obviously has a tender heart toward children. He says you must come to me like a little child. He refers to His people as "little ones". A child is not stuck in a doctrine. A child is open and ready for truth.
Anything other than this would just be speculation, for me.
i know of two examples:
Isaiah 7:14-16 and Jeremiah 19:2
Isaiah 7:14-16 is an example of Jesus having to reach a certain age in which he can choose between good and evil... it is an example of the age of accountability
Jeremiah 29:3 is God saying how much he hated the blood of innocents being shed, in this case, the blood of infants
it is Calvinism that asserts man is born genetically evil, and born a sinner, from the very moment that we are created. That is not what the Bible teaches... the Bible teaches that we have to reach a certain age in which we can understand the difference between right and wrong, and openly choose between good and evil
the calvinists are right when they say we are depraved, but they take it too far.
we are completely depraved to the point to where we can never get to the Father by any work or deed that we do... it must come by grace through faith.
Isaiah 7:14-16 and Jeremiah 19:2
Isaiah 7:14-16 is an example of Jesus having to reach a certain age in which he can choose between good and evil... it is an example of the age of accountability
Jeremiah 29:3 is God saying how much he hated the blood of innocents being shed, in this case, the blood of infants
it is Calvinism that asserts man is born genetically evil, and born a sinner, from the very moment that we are created. That is not what the Bible teaches... the Bible teaches that we have to reach a certain age in which we can understand the difference between right and wrong, and openly choose between good and evil
the calvinists are right when they say we are depraved, but they take it too far.
we are completely depraved to the point to where we can never get to the Father by any work or deed that we do... it must come by grace through faith.
Yes. And when the soul's depraved mind/will/emotion faculties inevitably bring forth sin, then the need for repentance and redemption are required; and man's salvation was wholly effected by God in the work of Christ. God stirs man's UNdepraved spirit by His Spirit unto that repentance. If the communion/conscience/intuition functional faculties of man's spirit were also depraved, there would be no internal structural capability within man for redemption to occur.
Man's soul is depraved. Man's spirit is redeemable God. The response of man to God's grace is effected from man's spirit rather than man's soul.
"Total" depravity is a misnomer. "Free" will is a misnomer. A constitutional understanding and approach is the only way to truth. The Calvi-Armi debate is a false dichotomy.
Monergistic Synergism. Synergistic Monergism.
Man's soul is depraved. Man's spirit is redeemable God. The response of man to God's grace is effected from man's spirit rather than man's soul.
"Total" depravity is a misnomer. "Free" will is a misnomer. A constitutional understanding and approach is the only way to truth. The Calvi-Armi debate is a false dichotomy.
Monergistic Synergism. Synergistic Monergism.
I'm not Catholic, but I've extensively read the Ante-Nicene Fathers. True Classical Arminianism (NOT any degree of Pelagianism) has many noteworthy points of truth. I'm a bit more reformed than that.
I maintain my contention that the Calvi/Armi debate is a false dichotomy. We have Ultra-Super-Hyper-Calvinism and Full Pelagianism to affirm the extremes of each. The truth comes from understanding the spirit-soul-body constitution of man, and exactly how each was/is affected by sin.
I maintain my contention that the Calvi/Armi debate is a false dichotomy. We have Ultra-Super-Hyper-Calvinism and Full Pelagianism to affirm the extremes of each. The truth comes from understanding the spirit-soul-body constitution of man, and exactly how each was/is affected by sin.