Tree of good and evil.

Sirk · Mar 17, 2017

We are off in never never land here. But we can make educated guesses.

I think you could say that. He was supposed to be the head, the spiritual leader. And on the other hand, he ate and figured he could work his and his wifes way out of the jamb they were in(imagine a man doing that!)

So a guy could feasibly say he was passive in areas, but willing to go to the grave with his wife.

Just imagine Sirk. ONE sin, and confusion reigns on all sides. And God has em all figured out and straightened out. It's utterly inconceivable. We could feasibly talk about Adam and Eve the rest of our lives and the consequence of that ONE sin in their life and not cover all the bases.

Think about fathers and husbands today. Think about fathers in Noah's time....marrying their daughters off to demon men.

wsblind · Mar 17, 2017

Sirk said:

We have it so sheltered in this day and age!

PeterJens · Mar 17, 2017

One could argue the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the ability to decide
what and why you do anything. Before Adam and Eve ate they trusted God to do
this for them. After they ate they knew they were naked.

This is the definition of self perception. And once man had this knowledge of choice
without love and communion with God, man would die and become corrupted, because
without love and focus of the Lord, evil will always end up justifying itself.

The only way back was knowledge of sin and failure, repentance, making ones way
back to God and walking in communion. But without this man would die as an
independent being.

The whole story could not be brought to an end there and then because in some
was adam and eve where not ready.

Or is this about the issue of the difference between the immortal and mortal.
To create the Kindom of the immortal, the mortal need to be created from
which the immortal will arise.

Magenta · Mar 17, 2017

Sirk said:

Pffft. How about offering them up to gang rapists?

Sirk · Mar 17, 2017

Magenta said:

My point is that not much has changed. It's just that today fathers are paying more attention to their NCAA brackets than their families. I wonder what adam was distracted by while his wife was being deceived.

Sully · Mar 17, 2017

Sirk said:

My guess he was sleeping peacefully due to the lack of living under this curse of toil and earn...

Magenta · Mar 17, 2017

Sirk said:

Yes, I understand your point

I am also of the opinion that human nature has not really changed. We are just as much in need of Jesus today as men and women were thousands of years ago. Modern technology and medicine and television etc etc oh! how about that bread maker (I have never actually used one haha) yeah, our standard of living is better, we have indoor plumbing and a pretty good infrastructure that supports travel and separation of peoples contributing to a greater sense of freedom and independence, though we need others and community just as much...

seed_time_harvest · Mar 17, 2017

wsblind said:

I know It's about GOD giving man a choice to be obedient or to be disobedient to the WORD of GOD.

Sully · Mar 17, 2017

Magenta said:

Yes, I understand your point

I am also of the opinion that human nature has not really changed. We are just as much in need of Jesus today as men and women were thousands of years ago. Modern technology and medicine and television etc etc oh! how about that bread maker (I have never actually used one haha) yeah, our standard of living is better, we have indoor plumbing and a pretty good infrastructure that supports travel and separation of peoples contributing to a greater sense of freedom and independence, though we need others and community just as much...

I've found I don't even need to read your post I just hit "like" and I'm never wrong...

Magenta · Mar 17, 2017

Sully said:

Haha you are funny... and sweet

wsblind · Mar 18, 2017

PeterJens said:

One could argue the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the ability to decide
what and why you do anything. Before Adam and Eve ate they trusted God to do
this for them. After they ate they knew they were naked.

This is the definition of self perception. And once man had this knowledge of choice
without love and communion with God, man would die and become corrupted, because
without love and focus of the Lord, evil will always end up justifying itself.

The only way back was knowledge of sin and failure, repentance, making ones way
back to God and walking in communion. But without this man would die as an
independent being.

The whole story could not be brought to an end there and then because in some
was adam and eve where not ready.

Or is this about the issue of the difference between the immortal and mortal.
To create the Kindom of the immortal, the mortal need to be created from
which the immortal will arise.

Interesting thoughts Peter.

When The Lord Jesus Christ made them skins from "blood" at what point did Adam repent?

Was it before Adam made himself a fig leaf suit to "cover" himself and blamed God or after?

Sirk · Mar 18, 2017

wsblind said:

right! I'm pretty sure Gods the one doing the chasing after us.

PeterJens · Mar 18, 2017

wsblind said:

The obvious point is Adam and Eve died. And they knew God face to face.
For them was there ever a way back to God?

And God does not want us to know what His judgement eternally on Adam is.
As far as Adam was concerned he had chosen death and not life, and the tree
of life was blocked to him.

Now if you hold to eternal tortured for sin, do you think Adam is going to the
be tortured forever?

Is it not more likely he will be destroyed by the second death?
And why? Because his rebellion was complete, he knew the Lord.

Expositor · Mar 18, 2017

wsblind said:

I dont see anywhere that we disagree. Both kinds of evil are plainly there. One is obviously evil, one is not.

PeterJens · Mar 18, 2017

Sirk said:

But how is the reconciliation actually achieved?

I know you like the instant formula approach. But as you described in your own life progress
is slow over lots of issues.

So reconciliation is probably not that straight forward.
Imagine Abraham and all the faith he showed throughout his life, yet until he offered up Isaac
his faith had not fully developed or been demonstrated.

So I would suggest things are not as certain as the more insecure brethren would like it to be,
because God has the right to be God, and we are His servants.

Have you noticed a certain arrogance in peoples words and stand? If people were dying around
you and life was very much in the balance, would this still be the case?
Is the arrogance based on faith or wealth and safety?

And it is ironic, with where we are in history and the vast loss of life, 7 billion people will die over
the next 100 years, you would have thought humbleness and care would be clearer.

The Lord blesses the poor in spirit, the meek, the mourning, those who hunger and thirst for
righteousness, the merciful, the peacemakers, the pure in heart.

But I suppose I must be wrong, legalism, unless ofcourse people are just rebelling against
Christ and His word to appease there own inner impulses.

Sirk · Mar 18, 2017

PeterJens said:

But how is the reconciliation actually achieved?

I know you like the instant formula approach. But as you described in your own life progress
is slow over lots of issues.

So reconciliation is probably not that straight forward.
Imagine Abraham and all the faith he showed throughout his life, yet until he offered up Isaac
his faith had not fully developed or been demonstrated.

So I would suggest things are not as certain as the more insecure brethren would like it to be,
because God has the right to be God, and we are His servants.

Have you noticed a certain arrogance in peoples words and stand? If people were dying around
you and life was very much in the balance, would this still be the case?
Is the arrogance based on faith or wealth and safety?

And it is ironic, with where we are in history and the vast loss of life, 7 billion people will die over
the next 100 years, you would have thought humbleness and care would be clearer.

The Lord blesses the poor in spirit, the meek, the mourning, those who hunger and thirst for
righteousness, the merciful, the peacemakers, the pure in heart.

But I suppose I must be wrong, legalism, unless ofcourse people are just rebelling against
Christ and His word to appease there own inner impulses.

You dont get to do that. You don't get to judge another's servant.

Sirk · Mar 18, 2017

PeterJens said:

The obvious point is Adam and Eve died. And they knew God face to face.
For them was there ever a way back to God?

And God does not want us to know what His judgement eternally on Adam is.
As far as Adam was concerned he had chosen death and not life, and the tree
of life was blocked to him.

Now if you hold to eternal tortured for sin, do you think Adam is going to the
be tortured forever?

Is it not more likely he will be destroyed by the second death?
And why? Because his rebellion was complete, he knew the Lord.

And you make God into a monster. I just don't see it.

HQ · Mar 18, 2017

samuel23 said:

Even atheists experience guilt when they do something "wrong". That guilt comes from a God-given conscience that convicts them (and us) when a moral line is crossed. I personally think that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is simply a metaphor for our God-given conscience, given the poetic style of writing.

PeterJens · Mar 18, 2017

Sirk said:

Sirk - These issues are hard to face because they are not issues but realities.
We are looking at what might be, but not commiting to the answer.

Can you do this in your mind? When all is said and done nothing we think or
propose changes reality. But if we get reality wrong there are grave consequences.

So what I am doing is not judging another but looking at what is being said and done
and asking a question about implications. A thief might be a just baliff imposing the
will of the court or an unjust imposer of their own will on others possessions.

It takes a certain courage and security to look into these questions.

I am told I am evil, following the worst evil ever suggested in the whole of church
history, created by demons. Woooooe. Heavy stuff. So let us step back and look.

So I say again, to oppose the words of Christ is a terrible thing if He is ones Lord
and master, the saviour of your soul. Everything rests on Him and His will.
EVERYTHING on HIS WILL And His will is expressed in His WORDS

A fool would deny the very words Christ speaks and rely on Him to save one.

One sentence I have seen miss quoted and miss applied by so many groups without
any sense of care or caution. Heaven, Hell, known by Christ, or unknown.

People say there is no fear, yet I am disowned like it is a small thing.
Why? Because I do not interpret security in my relationship with Christ to be a two
way street. But only the superficial debaters of theology and life would say it is
an obvious conclusion, because life is much more nuanced than this. But for the
masses, who want an in or out solution, ofcourse preachers preach this.

PeterJens · Mar 18, 2017

Sirk said:

Two pictures. Evil people, doing terrible things, fried and burnt forever as a just
reward for not following Him. And this torture is not limited ever. It goes on even
while Gods people are in eternity.

Picture two
Evil people, who are disfunctional, unable to cope or work things through, who in the eternal
will kill themselves in rebellion and despair and those around them, for whom there is no solution,
are destroyed, sent to an eternal destruction, never to rise again. They had their chance at life,
at rising to eternal life, in love and truth, but they failed. There is no other solution for them,
because the hope of openning their hearts to love, was slammed shut. To force this issue would
destroy them, so their opportunity is gone without solution.

I prayed with someone. I asked if I could pray with them to call out to God and ask Him to come
and bring peace and love to their heart. They let me pray, but could not honestly just reach out
and ask. I do not understand this barrier, between the living and the dead, but they are happy
where they are, and how they built their life, and happy with their death, alone and in fear.

It seems to be an issue of love and hurt. "I have what I have" they say, "its the best there is going
to be, and I will make do with the show." Wealth does this to people, as if they have what they
need. They are so much better than everyone else, little realising they lack the life they so
desperately need.

Now I see God as loving and just, and giving everyone an opportunity to know love and care,
and upon this, walk to life or to death. All Christs words do not seem to make a difference to
those walking to death, so may they enjoy that which they have before they go.

Tree of good and evil.

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