TRIBULATION LIE

[valiant]

Which was to summarise what has gone before? If you believe revelation 20 has already taken place i would encourage you to reread the scriptures Some of the stuff you say doesn't line up with scripture

Rev 20 is a new vision and summarises the present age, as it makes clear, starting with the restraint of Satan (Matt 12.26-28) followed by his release (rev 9), in parallel with the present reign of Christ and His saints, leading up to the final judgment.
It all lines up with Scripture, which is more than can be said of your ideas.

 

[PrynceNY]

Rev 20 is a new vision and summarises the present age, as it makes clear, starting with the restraint of Satan (Matt 12.26-28) followed by his release (rev 9), in parallel with the present reign of Christ and His saints, leading up to the final judgment. It all lines up with Scripture, which is more than can be said of your ideas.

The 1000 reign of Christ hasn't happened yet nor has Satan been bound for 1000 years. In which case after the 1000 years Satan will be released. I'm going to rephrase the question then. Do you believe revelation 20 is in the future to come or it already happened. Because if you believe it already happened that is false

 

[miknik5]

Mr. Valiant...May I ask you a question....... Where is Jesus in this 1000 year reign of yours??????? He is supposed to be in Jerusalem but I think they really believe in him or at least anything other than an man. What about his temple and the Holy of Hollies??????? Does HE live in a ordinary House. Oh,,, Are not the saints supposed to be Kings and Priest over the population.... Were not the Population of the WHOLE EARTH suppose to live to be 100 years old and if they did except Christ live for the remaining years of the 1000 years reign. If they did not they would die.

I know he is there in SPIRIT only.......This what he said,,,I guess I missed it and really cannot find it either....Please a little help from out there in preterist or post-triber land.

OR you just trash the Book of Revelation because it does not fit and is only symbolism anyways.

Funny,,,I thought it was the WORDs of GOD.

Yes I was wondering about that too. Why it's overlooked that a man will live to 100 and be considered a child And if anyone die during this particular time it would be because of their sin

necausevinnthat day, the kniefgebof the lord will cover the earth as the waters of the seas and all will say one to another, cone let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, HE will teach us HIS ways. And also, if anyone ever again prophecies , "the LORD says", his own parents will "run him through" because he has lied

all these things will not happen UNTIL after the false christ and false prophet are defeated and Satan in bound for 1000 years

For had Satan been bound up now for ALL me (as Valiant has suggested) ALL MEN WOULD KNOW THE LORD and there would be no need to "teach another man, know THE LORD"

 

[miknik5]

The 1000 reign of Christ hasn't happened yet nor has Satan been bound for 1000 years. In which case after the 1000 years Satan will be released. I'm going to rephrase the question then. Do you believe revelation 20 is in the future to come or it already happened. Because if you believe it already happened that is false

As well, id like to understand how he explains "the rest of the dead did but live again until after the 1000 year reign. Blessed and holy are those who have a part in THE FIRST RESURRECTION

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes I was wondering about that too. Why it's overlooked that a man will live to 100 and be considered a child And if anyone die during this particular time it would be because of their sin

necausevinnthat day, the kniefgebof the lord will cover the earth as the waters of the seas and all will say one to another, cone let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, HE will teach us HIS ways. And also, if anyone ever again prophecies , "the LORD says", his own parents will "run him through" because he has lied

all these things will not happen UNTIL after the false christ and false prophet are defeated and Satan in bound for 1000 years

For had Satan been bound up now for ALL me (as Valiant has suggested) ALL MEN WOULD KNOW THE LORD and there would be no need to "teach another man, know THE LORD"

Jesus will rule with rod of iron as the Lion of the tribe of Judah on the throne of David his father...FROM Jerusalem and Israel will be the world capitol! THE O.T. prophecies make this clear....especially Isaiah

 

[miknik5]

Why and how? It reads like 70 ad to me.



which has been true of the tribulation of the Jews from 70 ad onwards. Never before or since have any people suffered tribulation like it.



The 'no flesh' refers to the people He is talking about, not to everyone in the world. Had He not shortened the days no Jew would have survived. And it did not happen in 70 ad it BEGAN in 70 ad.


L

He referred to all flesh among the Jews. All flesh is a general description to be discovered from context. e.g. Acts 1.17.

.

Actually many more. But it is irrelevant,. And it does not say the whole world.


..

and yet it says there ALL FLESH, which proves my point.



It does not say all the elect. It spoke of the elect among the Jews.



irrelevant. and they are not described as great tribulation,



the great tribulation of the Jews as been from 70 ad to the present day.



yes it was Jesus. I think I'll stick with Him.
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Can you explain who the 144,000 witnesses are, where they are and if they are presently witnessing to the TRUTH of THE GOSPEL

 

[valiant]

The 1000 reign of Christ hasn't happened yet nor has Satan been bound for 1000 years. In which case after the 1000 years Satan will be released. I'm going to rephrase the question then. Do you believe revelation 20 is in the future to come or it already happened. Because if you believe it already happened that is false

I know it IS happening now. And that that is TRUE. Christ IS reigning with His saints, including the souls of those beheaded in 1st Century ad and later.

Revelation is a series of visions each ending with the second coming (eg rev 6). Rev 20 is the final one of these visions covering the present age.

 

[valiant]

Can you explain who the 144,000 witnesses are, where they are and if they are presently witnessing to the TRUTH of THE GOSPEL

the 144000 (12 x 12 x 1000) are the sealed church of Jesus Christ as numbered before God (see 21). Before men they are a number which no man can number,

 

[valiant]

As well, id like to understand how he explains "the rest of the dead did but live again until after the 1000 year reign. Blessed and holy are those who have a part in THE FIRST RESURRECTION

the rest of the dead (the unsaved) were dead until the (second) resurrection, the physical resurrection. They have no part in the first (spiritual) resurrection

 

[valiant]

all these things will not happen UNTIL after the false christ and false prophet are defeated and Satan in bound for 1000 years

For had Satan been bound up now for ALL me (as Valiant has suggested) ALL MEN WOULD KNOW THE LORD and there would be no need to "teach another man, know THE LORD"

Tell that to Jesus Matt 12.26-28. He was bound by the coming of Christ and by the resurrection Col 1.14

 

[PrynceNY]

I know it IS happening now. And that that is TRUE. Christ IS reigning with His saints, including the souls of those beheaded in 1st Century ad and later. Revelation is a series of visions each ending with the second coming (eg rev 6). Rev 20 is the final one of these visions covering the present age.

Christ 1000 year reign isn't happening now, idk what doctrine you follow but he is also reigning on earth during that period. We can just agree to disagree.

 

[miknik5]

Why should it be after Daniels 70 th week.? Or do you accept that day = a year nonsemse



Then its time you knew some history,



Jesus said there would be a number. One we know of was Bar Kochba. Look up Wikipedia for others.

....

all the roman emperors were 'anointed'. they carried on a sequence



there are number of state religions. There will not necessarily be a world religion. That is your interpretation.



you are childish.



I didn't like to say senile. But now you admit it.

What do you mean do we accept the day = a (thousand)year NONSENSE?

we do not accept that Jesus is (just) currently reigning 1000 years (a very long time) in (just) Heaven

Dof you happen to lose sight if what the souls under the altar cry out to HIM?

Ill remind you:

how long OH SOVEREIGN LORD, until you avenge our deaths and put an end to ALL who destroy the earth?
and THE LORD tells them to wait until the numbers of those who will be killed just as they had been are complete (that's a future tribulation not identified to a certain people or limited to just the Jew because in heaven you do see those of many nations all wearing the same white robes which these under the altar also are given)

sir, no

you do not consider all scripture

 

[miknik5]

Valiant,
initially when I began to speak with you, in your first post to me you said something to the effect that you don't know or haven't studied revelation

and yet, here you are offering what?

who taught you

You aren't in line to ALL the scriptures

 

[miknik5]

Christ 1000 year reign isn't happening now, idk what doctrine you follow but he is also reigning on earth during that period. We can just agree to disagree.

Valiant also thinks HE is currently reigning in Heaven 1000 years (a very long time, mind you) with the SOULS under the altar

 

[miknik5]

the rest of the dead (the unsaved) were dead until the (second) resurrection, the physical resurrection. They have no part in the first (spiritual) resurrection

So you are saying that the First Resurrection has already occurred?

you realize that, don't you?

and you identify the First Resurrection as CHRIST's RESURRECTION and all those who benefitted by the preaching of THE GOSPEL who believed as those who have a part in the First Resurrection?

so those souls under the altar are made up of all those who believed who died in THE LORD?

 

[miknik5]

Tell that to Jesus Matt 12.26-28. He was bound by the coming of Christ and by the resurrection Col 1.14

He was bound correct?

so then we don't have to concern ourselves with what is said in revelation concerning all those who were found worshipping both the beast and the dragon who gave his power to the beast. Cause "the dragon" is already bound? (Revelation 13 )

In which case sir you are preaching "peace". And that no man in this coming period of time will be deceived in receiving the wrong mark

 

[miknik5]

Valiant, you need to think about what you are preaching

it is not lining up to THE TRUTH of this present age ministry of preaching THE GOSPEL to all men


for if you think the tribulation will not touch any other man but the physical jew

You are wrong

 

[miknik5]

Jesus will rule with rod of iron as the Lion of the tribe of Judah on the throne of David his father...FROM Jerusalem and Israel will be the world capitol! THE O.T. prophecies make this clear....especially Isaiah

Yes

but the point is as specified through Isaiah 61 -
and luke 4 the CURRENT MINISTRY is of THE LAMB

and it's still the year of GOD's favor

 

[Jimbone]

How sad! Now, instead of looking for the blessed hope, the imminent appearing of the Lord and the gathering of the church, which the Lord promised, your brother, along with you and others, are looking for the revealing of the antichrist and God's wrath to come first.

Why is it sad? Christ and eternal life with Him is not ever sad, not matter how it is you get there. Just because someone can look past ANY hardship this life and world can throw at them to the point of being killed for it, by His power and ALL for His glory, for the TRUTH of Jesus Christ. How is that sad? To be honest I think it's sad when people fear this world so much when that is what He freed us from. How many times does Jesus tell us "fear not".

Sorry man I just don't see it like you, that is not the God I read about, it is through our weakness His power is shown, and no matter how our lives end on this earth that "blessed hope" you mentioned I can assure you we have. I don't read about ANY pre-trib rapture in the bible, it all clearly says AFTER the tribulation of those days everywhere I look, and a lot of what I see posted as pre-trb verses are just not how I read them. I have no hope? Sorry many I don't want to get into charts and a endless debate, but I honestly strongly disagree with you suggesting that no one but those who share your view have a blessed hope, EVERYONE in Christ has that, and not all of us "need" to escape harm in our heads to love God. See my sig. verse, God saved me through me losing all use of my right arm and I LOVE Him for it harder every day.

 

[Jimbone]

Man I also wanted to add that I agree that this is NOT an issue to divide on, these things can be talked about in love TOGETHER, I agree with everyone on that, and do not agree with being "ugly" to each other over these matters. We have enough to fight about over grace (<--joke, but true), the timing of the rapture should not cause argument, debate in love sure, but if you take things personally and start questioning each others faith over it then its way too much.