TRIBULATION LIE

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Pre, Mid, Post Tribbers,

You guys are all nuts:cool:. You'll never get this right until you figure out that the tribulation happened to 66-70 AD Israel.


So the Messiah has already returned?

Because the tribulation happens before His return; "
Immediately, but after"

Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."

Immediately, but after
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
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So the synagogue of Satan no longer exists?

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Are the above folks still waiting to be "cast into prison"?

That power went *poof* in the war of 66-70 AD.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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Isn't it funny that John never refers to the 7 churches as representing church ages? I thought he was supposed to be "revealing" and not concealing:cool:.

There are a lot truths that are hidden clues within Revelation for those who are seeking the truth. However, for those who are not, they will not see them nor understand them and always attack those of whom God has given understanding.

John was told to write what he had seen, what is now and what will take place later. The "what is now" is represented by the church period. The "what must take place later" represents the events that will take place after the "what is now" i.e. after the church period.

Rev.4:1 is an allusion I.e. prophetic of the church being gathered by that voice that sounds like a trumpet, which says "come up here." This voice that sounds like a trumpet is synonymous with the "trumpet call of God" found in 1 Thes.4:17. In support of this, after the end of chapter 3 we no longer see the word Ekklesia/church within the narrative of God's wrath.

Either you understand these things or you don't or you don't want to because you're more concerned with protecting the false teachings that you have adopted instead of wanting to know the truth. This resistance of the truth is exactly what 2 Tim.4:3-4 is referring to:

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths."

 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
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Pre, Mid, Post Tribbers,

You guys are all nuts:cool:. You'll never get this right until you figure out that the tribulation happened to 66-70 AD Israel.
It's almost as if the scenario in Luke is different from Matthew for the day tribbers minds:

Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Luke 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

This is so simple a 4 year old could see it.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
Pre, Mid, Post Tribbers,

You guys are all nuts:cool:. You'll never get this right until you figure out that the tribulation happened to 66-70 AD Israel.


And you'll never get this until you understand that the Lord's return to the earth is the beginning of His millennial kingdom where He will literally be ruling from the throne of David in Jerusalem and this event has definitely not yet taken place. And prior to that event, you must have the fulfillment of the day of the Lord which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowls judgments and the world has not experienced that either.

God's tribulation period is what brings an end to the current world governments and the decimation of most of the worlds population. None of those events of wrath have yet taken place upon the earth. Believe me, if they had, no one would have to ask "has the wrath of God taken place yet?" It will be all too apparent when it does take place.


 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
So the Messiah has already returned?

Because the tribulation happens before His return; "
Immediately, but after"

Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."

Immediately, but after
His presence (parousia) returned, not Him as a man again in the flesh. After all, isn't this what the disciples asked? They wanted to know the SIGNS of when His presence would return so that they would recognize them. They never asked when He would return but instead if you go to the original Greek, they asked when His presence would return. They wouldn't need the signs if Christ was going to come back and walk around on the earth as God.

The presence of Christ as God Almighty returned in 70 AD to execute His wrath upon apostate Israel and to gather His Elect into His everlasting spiritual kingdom. His presence was seen as a very bright light (Rev 18:1) which illuminated the earth (Israel). This event was recorded by Josephus in "War of the Jews" Book 6, Chapter 5.

To prove Christ's presence returned in 70 AD, I need just one verse and it's a slam dunk. There are many, many other passages I could use but this one nails it. Ready?

Rev 1: [SUP]7 [/SUP]Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth (Israel) will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Those that pierced Him were Roman solders in 30 AD. They were likely young solders and apparently still with the legions that surrounded the city in 70 AD, 40 years later. For those who pierced Him to see His presence return, the event had to take place in the first century, AD. NOTHING says it was the decendants of those who pierced Him. Game over!!
 
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Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
His presence (parousia) returned, not Him as a man again in the flesh. After all, isn't this what the disciples asked? They wanted to know the SIGNS of when His presence would return so that they would recognize them. They never asked when He would return but instead if you go to the original Greek, they asked when His presence would return. They wouldn't need the signs if Christ was going to come back and walk around on the earth as God
Good point there PL - I never thought of it this way...
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
And you'll never get this until you understand that the Lord's return to the earth is the beginning of His millennial kingdom where He will literally be ruling from the throne of David in Jerusalem and this event has definitely not yet taken place. And prior to that event, you must have the fulfillment of the day of the Lord which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowls judgments and the world has not experienced that either.

God's tribulation period is what brings an end to the current world governments and the decimation of most of the worlds population. None of those events of wrath have yet taken place upon the earth. Believe me, if they had, no one would have to ask "has the wrath of God taken place yet?" It will be all too apparent when it does take place.


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Dear beloved friend. You continue to not understand the nature or splender of the Kingdom of God. You are trapped in carnal thinking. We are not of this world, therefore the Millennial Kingdom is NOT OF THIS WORLD!!! Christ has been reigning in the spiritual realm for nearly 2,000 years and every Christian ought to know this.

Would you sell all that you have to buy a piece of this planet, Earth? Not me.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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Good point there PL - I never thought of it this way...
Thanks good buddy!! Took me forever to figure this out. This is why so many think it hasn't happened yet. But the event is recorded in history and in the Bible.

I have something else really cool to relate to you but will send you a PM, because nobody else on here will understand and this is graduate stuff, not for the milk drinkers.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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Thanks good buddy!! Took me forever to figure this out. This is why so many think it hasn't happened yet. But the event is recorded in history and in the Bible.
but when will all the verses about computers, smartphones and ferraris be fulfilled????? u see. futurism wins again.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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There are a lot truths that are hidden clues within Revelation for those who are seeking the truth. However, for those who are not, they will not see them nor understand them and always attack those of whom God has given understanding.
u always complain about people spiritualizing and now u do the same...... u say there are hidden truths????? i thought if the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense???? u see. no matter what u believe there will be some spiritualizing to do *gulp*
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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Revelation 5:5-6, “And one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. See, the Lion of the tribe of Yehuḏah, the Root of Dawiḏ, overcame to open the scroll and to loosen its seven seals.” And I looked and saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders a Lamb standing, as having been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of Yah sent out into all the earth.”

Daniyl 7:13-14, “I was looking in the night visions and saw One like the Son of Enosh, coming with the clouds of the heavens! And He came to the Ancient of Days, and they brought Him near before Him. And to Him was given rulership and preciousness and a reign, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His rule is an everlasting rule which shall not pass away, and His reign that which shall not be destroyed.”

Revelation 11:15, “And the seventh messenger sounded his trumpet, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

Revelation 21:1-27, “And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, renewed Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from Yah, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the heaven saying, “See, the Booth of Yah is with men, and He shall dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and Yah Himself shall be with them and be their Strength. “And Yah shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away.” And He who was sitting on the throne said, “See, I make all matters new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and trustworthy.” And He said to me, “It is done! I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I shall give of the fountain of the water of life without payment. “The one who overcomes shall inherit all this, and I shall be his Strength and he shall be My son. “But as for the cowardly, and untrustworthy, and abominable, and murderers, and those who whore, and drug sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the false, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death.” And one of the seven messengers who held the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and spoke with me, saying, “Come, I shall show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the set-apart Yerushalayim, descending out of the heaven from Yah, having the esteem of Yah, and her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal, and having a great and high wall, having twelve gates, and at the gates twelve messengers, and names written on them, which are those of the twelve tribes of the children of Yisra’yl: three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve emissaries of the Lamb. And he who spoke with me had a golden measuring rod, to measure the city, and its gates, and its wall. And the city lies four-cornered, and its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the rod: two thousand two hundred kilometres – the length, and the breadth, and height of it are equal. And he measured its wall: sixty-five metres, according to the measure of a man, that is, of a messenger. And the structure of its wall was jasper. And the city was clean gold, like clear glass. And the foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, the fifth sardonyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. And the twelve gates were twelve pearls – each one of the gates was a single pearl. And the street of the city was clean gold, like transparent glass. And I saw no Dwelling Place in it, for יהוה Almighty Strength is its Dwelling Place, and the Lamb. And the city had no need of the sun, nor of the moon, to shine in it, for the esteem of Yah lightened it, and the Lamb is its lamp. And the gentiles, of those who are saved, shall walk in its light, and the sovereigns of the earth bring their esteem into it. And its gates shall not be shut at all by day, for night shall not be there. And they shall bring the esteem and the appreciation of the gentiles into it. And there shall by no means enter into it whatever is unclean, neither anyone doing abomination and falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.”

Ezekiyl 48:35, “All around: eighteen thousand cubits. And the name of the city from that day is:
יהוהis there!

Psalm 27:13-114, “What if I had not believed To see the goodness of יהוה In the land of the living! Wait on יהוה, be strong, And let Him strengthen your heart! Wait, I say, on יהוה!”
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
His presence (parousia) returned, not Him as a man again in the flesh. After all, isn't this what the disciples asked? They wanted to know the SIGNS of when His presence would return so that they would recognize them. They never asked when He would return but instead if you go to the original Greek, they asked when His presence would return. They wouldn't need the signs if Christ was going to come back and walk around on the earth as God.

The presence of Christ as God Almighty returned in 70 AD to execute His wrath upon apostate Israel and to gather His Elect into His everlasting spiritual kingdom. His presence was seen as a very bright light (Rev 18:1) which illuminated the earth (Israel). This event was recorded by Josephus in "War of the Jews" Book 6, Chapter 5.

To prove Christ's presence returned in 70 AD, I need just one verse and it's a slam dunk. There are many, many other passages I could use but this one nails it. Ready?

Rev 1: [SUP]7 [/SUP]Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth (Israel) will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Those that pierced Him were Roman solders in 30 AD. They were likely young solders and apparently still with the legions that surrounded the city in 70 AD, 40 years later. For those who pierced Him to see His presence return, the event had to take place in the first century, AD. NOTHING says it was the decendants of those who pierced Him. Game over!!
Brother PlainWord,

I agree with you, on this.

Do you have any verses that talk about the time after 70 AD?

For example, if those times are not shortened, no flesh would be saved.

Doesn't that show that there is a time after 70 AD, in which there will be "flesh"?

--

And in Lk 21:24, the times of the gentiles, when the gentiles control the holy city (underfoot),

The gentile rule over Jerusalem didn't end in 70 ad, it was just the beginning of trouble, yes?
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
The 7 times are the same time period as the statue of Dan. 2.

The 1st 3 1/2 times, are from the Babylonian captivity until the dispersion of 70 AD. Dan. 12

The 2nd 3 1/2 times are from 70 AD until Israel is restored to Jerusalem in 1967.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
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Second coming is not happen yet

1.Second coming happen after great tribulation where the antichrist rule the world, and no body able buy and sale without mark of the beast. We are free to buy and sale now.

2. Than the Lord shall descend from heaven with shout, voice of arranged and trump, it is never happen yet.

3. Than the death shall a rise first and the living will caught to the cloud, we still here, prove it is not happen yet


1 thesalonians 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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It's almost as if the scenario in Luke is different from Matthew for the day tribbers minds:

Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Luke 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

This is so simple a 4 year old could see it.
"Day tribber????" LOL!! That's hysterical. Yeah, it is pretty obvious unless you've been brainwashed into adding 2,000+ years to everything as they do.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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Brother PlainWord,

I agree with you, on this.

Do you have any verses that talk about the time after 70 AD?

For example, if those times are not shortened, no flesh would be saved.

Doesn't that show that there is a time after 70 AD, in which there will be "flesh"?

--

And in Lk 21:24, the times of the gentiles, when the gentiles control the holy city (underfoot),

The gentile rule over Jerusalem didn't end in 70 ad, it was just the beginning of trouble, yes?
Yes, there are several places that mention or allude to a period on earth after the events of 66-70 AD (AKA, "the great tribulation"). You point one such place out, "some flesh being saved (from the GT)." Later in Mt 24 and into Mt 25, more is said about the period after 70 AD, the separating of sheep and goat nations (Christian and non-Christian), etc.

Another prominent place where life after 70 AD is discussed is the later part of Isa 65 (starting at verse 17) and all of chapter 66. This time of peace, figuratively written as the "wolf lying with the lamb" and the "lion eating straw" is a good illustration. During the GT of 66-70 AD, there was no food and starvation was rampant. Little babies, children and old people had food taken from their mouths. Babies were starved to death and in some cases, actually being cooked and eaten. The weak could not defend themselves so they died early, "not fulfilling their days." These horrific conditions (Isaiah tells us) will end when God creates a "new heaven and earth" for His people. This is all symbolic language describing an extended period after the war.
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
but when will all the verses about computers, smartphones and ferraris be fulfilled????? u see. futurism wins again.
What verses where these things discussed again? I must have skipped over that part. Still waiting for my Ferrari, LOL.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
Second coming is not happen yet

1.Second coming happen after great tribulation where the antichrist rule the world, and no body able buy and sale without mark of the beast. We are free to buy and sale now.

2. Than the Lord shall descend from heaven with shout, voice of arranged and trump, it is never happen yet.

3. Than the death shall a rise first and the living will caught to the cloud, we still here, prove it is not happen yet


1 thesalonians 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Actually it has. You just don't understand the nature of His return. Go back to Acts 1 and read what it actually says.

This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

You see, the return of Christ's presence was the same as HE WENT INTO HEAVEN, not as He left earth. He went into heaven on the "clouds of heaven." Thus when His presence returned in ~70 AD, it was on the same "clouds of heaven" and He was fully glorified seen only as an extremely bright light.

You also don't realize that the so-called "antiChrist" was Nero, the "beast of the sea."
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,370
113
Actually it has. You just don't understand the nature of His return. Go back to Acts 1 and read what it actually says.

This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

You see, the return of Christ's presence was the same as HE WENT INTO HEAVEN, not as He left earth. He went into heaven on the "clouds of heaven." Thus when His presence returned in ~70 AD, it was on the same "clouds of heaven" and He was fully glorified seen only as an extremely bright light.

You also don't realize that the so-called "antiChrist" was Nero, the "beast of the sea."
the return of Christ follow by verse 17 rise of the death and Christian caught together with them, we still here brother.

Then in revelation say, Jesus will rule the world for 1000 years, mean end of world human government like what we see now.

Jesus and His saint rule in that government, now we see Muslim government in Middle East and saint not rule.