True love is the mark of a real Believer.

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Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#361
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#361
dcontroversal said:
Exactly why you miss the mark and your salvation lite message is heretical.....

Faith saves period.........and like usual you cannot grasp that James speaks of faith being seen before men by their works....period.

You do realize you call Jesus a liar by your theology right?

Jesus said...If you believe on the SON you hath EVERLASTING LIFE.....so...keep calling him a liar and pushing your heretical dogma....Jude will tell you of your destiny!
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Believing Jesus involves believing the Jesus as described in the Bible. Jesus taught many things to his followers. If we reject the teachings of Jesus Christ and or His Words, then we are not believing in the same Jesus as described in the Bible. Nowhere does Christ ever say we can disobey His commands and still be saved. On the contrary, Jesus said if you love Him you will keep His Commandments. In other words, if a person does not love Jesus, they will not keep His Commandments.
 
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iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#362
Oct 6, 2011
7,866
1,567
113
#362
Jason0047 said:
Exactly. When a believer sins, they are not loving like a believer should (which is a mark of a true believer).
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yes many times I have been ask to explain "receiving the Holy Ghost,what does it feel like,who did you know?",,,many say they have received the Holy Ghost but as John points out in 1john 3:10 the Love that is either in them or not is the deciding factor as to if they actually have God in them.,,,,so hence what does it feel like,what did it feel like= LOVE,,,,GOD IS LOVE.

But which is why I wrote "love(noun)",,,,because there is "love=noun=God",,,and there is love(verb),,,the act of us loving one another. If we also are the "temple of God" then you are the "TEMPLE OF GOD AT JASON0047",,and God (who is love) resides in the temple of God at Jason0047(his seed in you),,,

So even as in the old,the new,,,,if I go up to the temple of God at Jason0047 and I offer evil fruit(hit you,curse you,lie to you,hate you,ect.) then I offered evil fruits at the temple of God at Jason0047,because you(your body) is the temple,you(when you close your eyes your spirit is in side you),and God is also (inside you),,,and so I then if I do not love you have offered evil fruit at the temple of god at Jason0047.

If again you are the temple of God at Jason0047 and I have God in me(love) and I go up to the "temple of God at Jason0047" and offer good fruits to God(love) then you(the spirit of you inside the body of flesh of you),then will confess to "God" who is in you the fruits i have brought to the temple of God at Jason0047,,,,,,,,lol,is it an analogy or a reality?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#363
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
113
#363
Jason0047 said:
Believing Jesus involves believing the Jesus as described in the Bible. Jesus taught many things to his followers. If we reject the teachings of Jesus Christ and or His Words, then we are not believing in the same Jesus as described in the Bible. Nowhere does Christ ever say we can disobey His commands and still be saved. On the contrary, Jesus said if you love Him you will keep His Commandments. In other words, if a person does not love Jesus, they will not keep His Commandments.
Click to expand...
Look...you can keep believing your works save you, keep you saved.....I will trust Jesus at his word and believe that I am saved by faith and because I am saved by faith and now have a born again spirit I can and will serve God.......

Yours is a works based false gospel

Mine is a faith based gospel and the bible is clear!
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#364
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
#364
Jason0047 said:
I am merely pointing out that faith is more than a belief. Faith involves action, too (Because the Lord is the one taking the action thru them).
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yes, you're doing better than the others.

and whoever seeks yahweh will find him, according to HIS WORD....

so whoever is seeking HIM, will find HIM, according to HIS WORD...
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#365
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#365
iamsoandso said:
yes many times I have been ask to explain "receiving the Holy Ghost,what does it feel like,who did you know?",,,many say they have received the Holy Ghost but as John points out in 1john 3:10 the Love that is either in them or not is the deciding factor as to if they actually have God in them.,,,,so hence what does it feel like,what did it feel like= LOVE,,,,GOD IS LOVE.

But which is why I wrote "love(noun)",,,,because there is "love=noun=God",,,and there is love(verb),,,the act of us loving one another. If we also are the "temple of God" then you are the "TEMPLE OF GOD AT JASON0047",,and God (who is love) resides in the temple of God at Jason0047(his seed in you),,,

So even as in the old,the new,,,,if I go up to the temple of God at Jason0047 and I offer evil fruit(hit you,curse you,lie to you,hate you,ect.) then I offered evil fruits at the temple of God at Jason0047,because you(your body) is the temple,you(when you close your eyes your spirit is in side you),and God is also (inside you),,,and so I then if I do not love you have offered evil fruit at the temple of god at Jason0047.

If again you are the temple of God at Jason0047 and I have God in me(love) and I go up to the "temple of God at Jason0047" and offer good fruits to God(love) then you(the spirit of you inside the body of flesh of you),then will confess to "God" who is in you the fruits i have brought to the temple of God at Jason0047,,,,,,,,lol,is it an analogy or a reality?
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Reminds me of this verse here:

John 14:23 HCSB
"Jesus answered,"If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

The NIV says "obey my teaching" The NLT says, "do what I say." and the KJV says, "he will keep my words."

 
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iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#366
Oct 6, 2011
7,866
1,567
113
#366
Jeff_56 said:
not nearly in everyone who makes that claim or assumption.

even the world can tell the difference sometimes. (in those who say they love and those who do)
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I agree it is something that needs to be examined in each individual(everyone will say they have it),,,but as John says "try the spirits whether they,are of God"(1John 4:1). lol I at times end post with "I am in the midst of loving you",,,it I note strikes some different from others but it is an acknowledgement that I intend on being in the present tense of love(in it's midst) rather that at an alternate time-frame which would only be an admission that I do not always love. So "in the midst of loving you",,,is perpetual.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#367
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#367
dcontroversal said:
Look...you can keep believing your works save you, keep you saved.....I will trust Jesus at his word and believe that I am saved by faith and because I am saved by faith and now have a born again spirit I can and will serve God.......

Yours is a works based false gospel

Mine is a faith based gospel and the bible is clear!
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I believe God does the work in me. So no. I do not believe I am saving myself but I am merely yielding to the "good work" God wants to thru me. For Jesus is the author and finisher of my faith.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#368
Oct 6, 2011
7,866
1,567
113
#368
Jason0047 said:
Reminds me of this verse here:

John 14:23 HCSB
"Jesus answered,"If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

The NIV says "obey my teaching" The NLT says, "do what I say." and the KJV says, "he will keep my words."
Click to expand...
some things in scripture are hidden right out in the open the temple of God is one that is in front of all of us yet many say they need to build it(cant be done). Again as we know from many scriptures he will write us a new name on a white stone Rev.2:17(which one is written in the book of life,the new one or the one we have today?),,,Christ will also write his fathers name in our foreheads. So the many of us seek to have our own name written in the book of life,when we should be seeking to have our name changed to the one that is written in the book of life(the fathers),,,
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#369
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
#369
Jason0047 said:
I believe God does the work in me. So no. I do not believe I am saving myself but I am merely yielding to the "good work" God wants to thru me. For Jesus is the author and finisher of my faith.
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close, (perhaps and hopefully, and hoping for the best)...

here is a simple testimony from one who was completely given over to God, called and chosen by Him, for the Gospel of Jesus>
"Another text easily mishandled is Philippians 2.13: “it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure” (ASV). To some this passage seems to teach that God performs both the willing and the working; that is, that He puts into His child what He has willed and worked. Since God wills and works instead of him, he himself need not do so. The believer has become a kind of superior creature having no need to will and to do work now that God has done so for him. He is like a mechanical toy which exercises no responsibility of its own to will and do. These saints do not see that the correct substance of this verse is that God works in us up to the point of our readiness to will and to work. He undertakes only to that point and no farther. He never wills or acts in place of man. He merely endeavors to bring man to the position of being disposed to will and to do His excellent will.
Man himself must perform the willing and the working. The Apostle carefully states, “you both to will and to work”—not God wills and works, but you; your personality continues to exist and hence you yourself must will and act because the responsibility is yours. God is indeed at work, but never does He substitute Himself for us. To choose and to do belong to the man. God wants to move us, melt us and encourage us, so that our hearts may bend towards His will, yet he does not will instead of us to do His will. He turns us towards His desire, then leaves us to make up our will. What the Word teaches here is that one’s volition requires the support of God’s power. How ineffectual and fruitless are deeds done according to one’s own volition apart from Him. God does not will in man’s stead, but neither does He desire man to will independently. He calls him to will in His power, which is to say, to will according to His working in man.
Not comprehending the correct meaning of this passage the believer surmises that he need not will. He thus allows another volition to control his being. He dare not decide any issue, choose any action, or even resist any power, but passively waits for the will of God to come to him. When an external volition decides for him he passively accepts it. He quenches whatever proceeds from his own volition. And the result: neither he himself uses his volition nor God uses it to choose and decide for him, since He requires active co-operation. But the evil spirits seize his passive will and act instead of him.
We need to see the difference between God willing for us and our volition cooperating with God. If He were to choose and decide in lieu of us we would have no real connection with the act or deed done because our hearts would not have been exercised towards it."
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#370
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#370
Jeff_56 said:
close, (perhaps and hopefully, and hoping for the best)...

here is a simple testimony from one who was completely given over to God, called and chosen by Him, for the Gospel of Jesus>
"Another text easily mishandled is Philippians 2.13: “it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure” (ASV). To some this passage seems to teach that God performs both the willing and the working; that is, that He puts into His child what He has willed and worked. Since God wills and works instead of him, he himself need not do so. The believer has become a kind of superior creature having no need to will and to do work now that God has done so for him. He is like a mechanical toy which exercises no responsibility of its own to will and do. These saints do not see that the correct substance of this verse is that God works in us up to the point of our readiness to will and to work. He undertakes only to that point and no farther. He never wills or acts in place of man. He merely endeavors to bring man to the position of being disposed to will and to do His excellent will.
Man himself must perform the willing and the working. The Apostle carefully states, “you both to will and to work”—not God wills and works, but you; your personality continues to exist and hence you yourself must will and act because the responsibility is yours. God is indeed at work, but never does He substitute Himself for us. To choose and to do belong to the man. God wants to move us, melt us and encourage us, so that our hearts may bend towards His will, yet he does not will instead of us to do His will. He turns us towards His desire, then leaves us to make up our will. What the Word teaches here is that one’s volition requires the support of God’s power. How ineffectual and fruitless are deeds done according to one’s own volition apart from Him. God does not will in man’s stead, but neither does He desire man to will independently. He calls him to will in His power, which is to say, to will according to His working in man.
Not comprehending the correct meaning of this passage the believer surmises that he need not will. He thus allows another volition to control his being. He dare not decide any issue, choose any action, or even resist any power, but passively waits for the will of God to come to him. When an external volition decides for him he passively accepts it. He quenches whatever proceeds from his own volition. And the result: neither he himself uses his volition nor God uses it to choose and decide for him, since He requires active co-operation. But the evil spirits seize his passive will and act instead of him.
We need to see the difference between God willing for us and our volition cooperating with God. If He were to choose and decide in lieu of us we would have no real connection with the act or deed done because our hearts would not have been exercised towards it."
Click to expand...
Okay, so who does the "good work" in a believer's life? Is it God? Or is it the believer? Well, Scripture tells us that God (Christ) is the One who does the work within a believer.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10 KJV
Hebrews 12:1, 2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22, 23, 24 (cf. Matthew 7:16, 18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26, 27

For that is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.

Yeah, but doesn't a believer do the work, too? Now, yes, it is true; A believer is created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10); And a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. But we must also realize that true believers are not ultimately doing these "good works" alone or of their own power, though. For in 1 Corinthians 15:10 Paul said that he labored more than all of his brethren, yet he said it was not him that labored but it was the grace of God that was within him. So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#371
Oct 6, 2011
7,866
1,567
113
#371
If God is doing the actual work(love) through us then God himself is offering his own fruits to himself at the temple of God at us(our body/body of Christ=temple),,,if God,the Lord of host is in us Colossians 1:27 then if we love one another we(us) are the ones who are giving the first-fruits at the temple of God(each of us) and we are made priest in the temple of God(our spirit in us when we close our eyes),,,and God also who is beside our spirit(inside us beside our spirit when we close our eyes).


There is only one who is good,the father in heaven,,,,,when we are tempted we close our eyes and we hear a voice telling us it is not good to do that. If we disobey that voice(Gods) and fall to the temptation then when we close our eyes the spirit in a man is guilty(guilty conscience),,but the voice we heard in us who said it was not good is it guilty of the same sin? No it is not, it told us it was not good but we did not hearken to it and sinned. But the voice in us that said to our spirits not to do the sin but to love is completely innocent(good) and has a clear conscience(NOTICE BOTH YOU AND GOD ARE INSIDE YOU,IN THE TEMPLE),,,,
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#372
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
#372
don't over-analyze. yahweh made it simple. man messed it all up.

it really is simple, just as he has 'breathed' it.... HEY!!! HEY HEY HEY! (((good// GOOD EXAMPLE)))

when the men he chose wrote what he chose for them to write,

they did so freely, willingly, and if you saw them writing you would see them writing (or the person writing who
wrote it down as they spoke it).

he did not animate a dead body to write for him,

and he did not "APPEAR@!@@! out of a mist , HIS finger writing on paper (like when he wrote on a wall)..

....

trying to 'spiritualize' it really does no justice nor service to yahweh or the gospel of yahshua,


and the many attempts in this forum to do so are not at all like the faithful Israelis/Hebrews/ did or lived.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#373
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#373
iamsoandso said:
some things in scripture are hidden right out in the open the temple of God is one that is in front of all of us yet many say they need to build it(cant be done). Again as we know from many scriptures he will write us a new name on a white stone Rev.2:17(which one is written in the book of life,the new one or the one we have today?),,,Christ will also write his fathers name in our foreheads. So the many of us seek to have our own name written in the book of life,when we should be seeking to have our name changed to the one that is written in the book of life(the fathers),,,
Click to expand...
Well, I believe according to the Scriptures that man has a physical body and a spiritual body and a soul that controls both. The physical body is the flesh. The spiritual body is what will remain when the body dies (Which we see in the Story of Lazarus and the Richman). The soul is a person's mind, will, and emotions (or the core of their personality and character). Our physical body and the spiritual body is the Temple in which God resides in. For that is why Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within you. Meaning, we are connected with God and all believers when the Lord Jesus makes His home within our temple (i.e. spiritual body and physical body).

I do not believe anyone can climb in some other way to the Kingdom of God. Some will focus on going back to the Old Testament Law and a Works Based Type Salvationism. Others will try and climb in some other by thinking all they need is a mental acknowledgment type faith. But those who are truly of God obey Jesus and or His Word; For they will be the ones who will be in the Kingdom. For Jesus said, if you continue in His Word, then are his disciples indeed. However, those who did not abide in Christ's words had wanted to kill him, though (See John chapter 8).

As for the new name given to the saints. I believe the saints will have their own unique new name given to them by God. We can see this in the Old Testament when God had changed Abram's name to Abraham. So I believe our names (either new or both new and old) will be present in the book of life. As for the Father's name written in our foreheads: This is a claim to ownership when we conform to the image of Christ (When we obey His Word).
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#374
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#374
iamsoandso said:
If God is doing the actual work(love) through us then God himself is offering his own fruits to himself at the temple of God at us(our body/body of Christ=temple),,,if God,the Lord of host is in us Colossians 1:27 then if we love one another we(us) are the ones who are giving the first-fruits at the temple of God(each of us) and we are made priest in the temple of God(our spirit in us when we close our eyes),,,and God also who is beside our spirit(inside us beside our spirit when we close our eyes).


There is only one who is good,the father in heaven,,,,,when we are tempted we close our eyes and we hear a voice telling us it is not good to do that. If we disobey that voice(Gods) and fall to the temptation then when we close our eyes the spirit in a man is guilty(guilty conscience),,but the voice we heard in us who said it was not good is it guilty of the same sin? No it is not, it told us it was not good but we did not hearken to it and sinned. But the voice in us that said to our spirits not to do the sin but to love is completely innocent(good) and has a clear conscience(NOTICE BOTH YOU AND GOD ARE INSIDE YOU,IN THE TEMPLE),,,,
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Well, I am not saying I do not exist and that it is all God. That would be silly. God and I do both reside in the Temple (as you said). Both my soul and God lives in my spirit body and my physical body. I have a choice to either surrender or yield to God and the work He wants to do in me, or I can resist and fight against God and go my own way. The outer court of the temple (the body or the flesh) is weak, but the inner court temple is willing. For Jesus said, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. So we have to yield to the inner court temple and God working within our bodies (i.e. the outer temple). We do have a choice. But as Paul says, he said he labored more than all his brethren, but it was not him that did so but it was the grace of God within Him. Jesus said, we can do nothing without Him. This means, we have to abide in the Vine in order to produce fruit. We do not produce our own fruit, but we yield to God and allow the fruits of the Spirit to work within our life (Like love, joy, peace, patience, etc.)

Ezekiel 36:26-27 says, He gives us a new heart, a new spirit, and then He places His Spirit within in us whereby He will cause us to keep His statutes.
 
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S

Sirk

Guest
#375
#375
Jason0047 said:
Believing Jesus involves believing the Jesus as described in the Bible. Jesus taught many things to his followers. If we reject the teachings of Jesus Christ and or His Words, then we are not believing in the same Jesus as described in the Bible. Nowhere does Christ ever say we can disobey His commands and still be saved. On the contrary, Jesus said if you love Him you will keep His Commandments. In other words, if a person does not love Jesus, they will not keep His Commandments.
Click to expand...
And if a man truly loves his wife he will never sin against her. It's just so rare for a truly sanctified man ever sin against someone they truly love. Forgive me for getting real life mixed up with your fantasy world.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

Senior Member
#376
Oct 6, 2011
7,866
1,567
113
#376
Jason0047 said:
Well, I believe according to the Scriptures that man has a physical body and a spiritual body and a soul that controls both. The physical body is the flesh. The spiritual body is what will remain when the body dies (Which we see in the Story of Lazarus and the Richman). The soul is a person's mind, will, and emotions (or the core of their personality and character). Our physical body and the spiritual body is the Temple in which God resides in. For that is why Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within you. Meaning, we are connected with God and all believers when the Lord Jesus makes His home within our temple (i.e. spiritual body and physical body).

I do not believe anyone can climb in some other way to the Kingdom of God. Some will focus on going back to the Old Testament Law and a Works Based Type Salvationism. Others will try and climb in some other by thinking all they need is a mental acknowledgment type faith. But those who are truly of God obey Jesus and or His Word; For they will be the ones who will be in the Kingdom. For Jesus said, if you continue in His Word, then are his disciples indeed. However, those who did not abide in Christ's words had wanted to kill him, though (See John chapter 8).

As for the new name given to the saints. I believe the saints will have their own unique new name given to them by God. We can see this in the Old Testament when God had changed Abram's name to Abraham. So I believe our names (either new or both new and old) will be present in the book of life. As for the Father's name written in our foreheads: This is a claim to ownership when we conform to the image of Christ (When we obey His Word).
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If there was a man sir named "Love",,his son then also is sir-named "Love",,,as his son marries, his wife(who has her fathers sir-name) then will become the same as the sir-name of the son,which is the same as his fathers. After the son marries and they have children they also will have the sir-name of the son,whose sir-name is the same as the fathers,,the fathers name is written in the book of life,,,we are invited to the marriage of the son,we his sons bride,then are no more called after another name but the name of the son of the father is our new name(invitation to the wedding),,,,
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#377
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#377
Sirk said:
And if a man truly loves his wife he will never sin against her. It's just so rare for a truly sanctified man ever sin against someone they truly love. Forgive me for getting real life mixed up with your fantasy world.
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Sin is likened to cheating on God. Every time a person sins they are striving to make themselves into their own god by doing whatever they please. So when a man cheats on his wife, the relationship is not going to last if he is not sorry about his unfaithfulness and or if he does not seek to change.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#378
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#378
iamsoandso said:
If there was a man sir named "Love",,his son then also is sir-named "Love",,,as his son marries, his wife(who has her fathers sir-name) then will become the same as the sir-name of the son,which is the same as his fathers. After the son marries and they have children they also will have the sir-name of the son,whose sir-name is the same as the fathers,,the fathers name is written in the book of life,,,we are invited to the marriage of the son,we his sons bride,then are no more called after another name but the name of the son of the father is our new name(invitation to the wedding),,,,
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What would be the purpose of writing down the same name over and over in the book of life? Who will be able to read it and tell which name is which if they are all the same?
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#379
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
19
0
#379
Jason0047 said:
What would be the purpose of writing down the same name over and over in the book of life? Who will be able to read it and tell which name is which if they are all the same?
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maybe so a rubber stamp could be used, or an auto-writer,

so god doesn't get carpel tunnel sindrome(sic).... :)

actually,

in scripture,

i think the warning given is what to do/not do/ in order that a person's name is NOT ERASED.

i.e. if your name is not in the book of life, byebye.... no way to get it put there.... just no way...

(subject to checking TORAH to verify 'memory')
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#380
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
51
0
#380
Dear I-am-so-and-so:

Now, if you are saying that our last name will be the Father's name and our first name will be new and unique, well, I am not sure it will be exactly like that. According to genealogies in the Bible, people were were only given one name. They were usually referred to their father's first name as an addition. Like Simon, son of Jonah. So if the Father's name is given to us in the book of life, I can see it being in terms of an addition to our new unique name that we are given along with the words, son of [the Father's name].
 
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