Trying to understand

[heartofdavid]

If there is a tribulation of the saints in the future that will be terrible persecution worldwide that is the worse ever in the history of mankind,not that the persecution will be greater on an individual level,for persecution is persecution,but it will be on a bigger scale affecting all Christians,and not only certain areas like now,do not worry about it.

Sure it sounds scary,and we might fear it,but if you are on God's side in the truth,your attitude will be different,for when it comes,and you are being persecuted the Holy Spirit will come upon you,and you will not care about their persecution for you will have the courage,and the strength,to endure it,and be like Paul that basically said,bring it,do not sing it,for he said I am ready to depart from this world having done what the Lord sent me to do.

We will fear it now,and rightfully so,but do not worry,when it comes your attitude will be different,and the Spirit will get you through the persecution like the Spirit got Jesus through the persecution,and cross,and God can comfort,and lessen the pain,of their persecution,which I believe God will not allow them to torture the saints,but it would be quick,and we will be with Jesus,for when the world gets to that time,they are of the occult,nature worship,acknowledges no personal God,but honor the God of forces,or the power of nature,which they are in to spiritual evolution through nature,so they are not going to play around with people that oppose them,but they want them off the world fast,and will not toy with them,because that is their attitude for the world is all they have,and know,so they will want them off their precious earth fast.

The Bible says the saints shall be hated of all nations,and the Gospel must be preached in to all the world for a witness unto all nations,then the end shall come,which then comes the end when the Son shall have delivered up the kingdom to the Father,when He shall have put down all rule and authority.

Since Jesus did not put down all rule and authority on earth,and the saints have not been gathered unto Christ,the end has not come,so it appears that there is a persecution of the saints that will happen in the future that will be worldwide for they shall be hated of all nations,and the Gospel must be preached in to all the world,which could of not happened years ago,for the Gospel could not reach that far at that time.Mainly by technology it is possible for the Gospel to be preached in all the world,which the book of Daniel will also be able to be understood in the end time because of advanced travel,and advanced technology,for the saints can hear and see what is going on in the world,therefore understanding the end time of how they can come together and rebel against God,and persecute the saints.

So be of good cheer,and do not worry,for we might fear now,but when it comes,if you are there,it will be a whole different attitude upon you when they persecute you,and it will not bother you for you will be so strong in the Lord,for the Spirit will toughen you up,and God can comfort,and lessen the pain,of persecution.

I am pretrib. There are no postrib rapture verses.

I belive the wise and foolish virgins will be arrested together.
Then the foolish,walking carnally, along with post tribs will mock and tell us " see,we told you...."
And before they get done celebrating the sky will dawn with the groom appearing and calling the bride.

Postribs will be left with mouths open as we ascend with the groom.

Then comes the line in the Sand. Take the mark or die.

That is bible. Look it up

 

[TrustingGod4life]

Thank you for that!!! I

 

[shrume]

I am pretrib. There are no postrib rapture verses.

I belive the wise and foolish virgins will be arrested together.
Then the foolish,walking carnally, along with post tribs will mock and tell us " see,we told you...."
And before they get done celebrating the sky will dawn with the groom appearing and calling the bride.

Postribs will be left with mouths open as we ascend with the groom.

Then comes the line in the Sand. Take the mark or die.

That is bible. Look it up

A person's understanding of the rapture does not determine his salvation.

Christians who believe the rapture is post-trib will participate in the rapture, no matter when it is.

 

[TrustingGod4life]

I understand.i have seen some. But I have to stay in his Word to Know God more. I know i don't look down on ppl I'm saved my grace simply.... I definitely don't deserve eternal life.

 

[Depleted]

I'm new to the site and new to Christ, well I fell away for church praying even from God but I came back. My question is... will we who believe in Christ go through the tribulation? And if so, how are we to survive it? It's just sounds so scary the things to come... ,concerned about my tiny babies.

Sorry if it's an annoying question just want to help others around me

Learn what happened to the Christians in the first century, and then ask yourself, "Wasn't that "Great Tribulation'?"

Will we go through it again? Some already are. Try being a Christian in that same area today -- the Middle East. If the government doesn't kill you first, your neighbors will.

God is gracious to us in giving us a home free from that. No where in history does it ever say we will remain free from that. Nor does it say anywhere in scripture that we're all doomed to that.

Nothing to worry about though. Those Middle Eastern Christians of the first century and 21st century didn't get special genes to equip them. They got the same that we get to equip us -- Jesus himself.

 

[Angela53510]

Oh I see. Ok what about Christians and the tribulation? Will they be apart? Sorry for asking so many questions. Just learning

I also believe the tribulation was something that occurred in the first century, with the fall of Jerusalem. That doesn’t mean we won’t experience persecution and trials today, or in any other time. If you read Matt 24 carefully, without helps or books with a particular end times view, you will see that Jesus is clearly talking about his time, and immediately after his death.

North Korea also comes to mind, as far as brutal persecution, including imprisonment and death just for owning a Bible fragment. China had huge persecution of Christians for many years. Now, the Christians exert enough positive pressure that the government has changed its policies. Since the Christian farmers regularly out produce the non-Christians, they have taken a more hands off approach. Albania persecuted Christians to extinction. Even today, the Russians persecute evangelical Christians, promoted by the Orthodox Church.

It strikes me as extremely hypocritical for comfortable North Americans to think they have it rough, when people are dying elsewhere in the world for their faith. Further, it amazes me you say you are a new Christian, and yet you have already come into contact with this toxic, self centered eschatology which worries about tribulation to the self, instead of worrying about going to the lost and preaching the gospel, no matter what the cost.

Levi, who has been persecuted for his faith in India, posted the song, “I have decided” (to follow Jesus) in the Misc. Forum. Read the words, and you will understand that our choice is to follow Jesus, regardless of the external circumstances. And do read your Bible, straight through. This picking and choosing verses to support dubious theology is bad hermeneutics, which means “interpretation,” needs to chance to a contextual approach. Read all the verses in a paragraph, chapter and book!

And if you finally conclude a tribulation is coming, then be prepared to suffer for Christ. We can do no less for him who suffered and died for us!

 

[Depleted]

I'm asking. Because growing. Up I was taught one thing... now that I'm older I hear two different things

Listen better. There are a lot more viewpoints than merely two on this tribulation thingy. Closer to a dozen than two. lol

 

[TrustingGod4life]

Ok I understand. I'm not worried about self... I asked how to be prepared and for my infants. I tell others about Jesus all for the time. To those who want to listen.

 

[TrustingGod4life]

I'm definitely realizing this.

 

[TrustingGod4life]

Thank you for your reply... you are exactly right...thanks for that eye opener and truth

 

[Angela53510]

Thank you for your reply... you are exactly right...thanks for that eye opener and truth

On the bottom right hand side of the dialogue box, there is a button “Reply with Quote.” Please press that first, when answering someone. Then, we can know who you are responding to.

As for preparing for a tribulation, I think we are supposed to be trusting Jesus. And walking with him! That is the best preparation.

 

[shrume]

I'm definitely realizing this.

This is not a place to come to in order to learn the one and only truth. What you can learn here is what others believe, and at times why they believe what they do.

Granted, I've only been here 6 months or so, but I haven't seen anyone change their opinion on much of anything. This is a place to discuss the Bible, which frequently means "argue and belittle people who disagree with you".

But sometimes people say things that can make you think, and that's generally a good thing.

 

[TrustingGod4life]

On the bottom right hand side of the dialogue box, there is a button “Reply with Quote.” Please press that first, when answering someone. Then, we can know who you are responding to.

As for preparing for a tribulation, I think we are supposed to be trusting Jesus. And walking with him! That is the best preparation.

Thank you I didn't know how to do it.
Your right thank you again for the rely

 

[TrustingGod4life]

This is not a place to come to in order to learn the one and only truth. What you can learn here is what others believe, and at times why they believe what they do.

Granted, I've only been here 6 months or so, but I haven't seen anyone change their opinion on much of anything. This is a place to discuss the Bible, which frequently means "argue and belittle people who disagree with you".

But sometimes people say things that can make you think, and that's generally a good thing.

Yes I learned for sure. But yes stuff said today made me think. Thank you for your reply as well

 

[Nehemiah6]

I'm new to the site and new to Christ, well I fell away for church praying even from God but I came back. My question is... will we who believe in Christ go through the tribulation? And if so, how are we to survive it? It's just sounds so scary the things to come... ,concerned about my tiny babies.

Sorry if it's an annoying question just want to help others around me

No it is not an annoying question. The annoying thing is people trying to promote the idea that the Tribulation is for the redeemed of the Lord. So to calm your fears the Lord has said LET NOT YOUR HEART BE TROUBLED. Here is the rest of the passage which speaks about the Rapture (John 14:1-3):

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[TrustingGod4life]

No it is not an annoying question. The annoying thing is people trying to promote the idea that the Tribulation is for the redeemed of the Lord. So to calm your fears the Lord has said LET NOT YOUR HEART BE TROUBLED. Here is the rest of the passage which speaks about the Rapture (John 14:1-3):

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Thank you for your reply! Amen to that verse. Yeah I'm understanding their a lot of views on the subject

 

[Hizikyah]

Yahshua/Jesus will return after the tribulation before the wrath of YHWH. This is the truth, it may not be ear tackling, but it is true. This may or may not occur durning the next 2 or 3 generations, could be longer. In any case doing the will of Yah is what is important.

Mat 24:21-22, "For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever will be. And unless those days were shortened, there would no flesh be saved; but for the elect's sake, those days will be shortened."



Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”

I made a thread on the timeline of Revelation events, it shows the entire timeline

here is a link to the thread:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/159517-timeline-seals-trumpets-bowls-revelation.html

Yahshua returns on the 7th trumpet



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 11:15, “And the seventh messenger sounded his trumpet, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!” [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
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[Hizikyah]

Psalms 92:1-2, “It is good to give thanks to יהוה, And to sing praises to Your Name, O Most High; To declare Your loving-commitment in the morning, And Your trustworthiness each night.”

Psalms 25:20-21, “O keep my soul, and deliver me: let me not be ashamed; for I put my trust in thee. Let integrity and uprightness preserve me; for I wait on thee.”

Psalm 37:29, "The righteous shall inherit the earth, and dwell in it forever."

Philippians 3:20, “But our citizenship is in heaven, out from which we also eagerly wait for our Ruler, Yahshua Messiah the King.”

Revelation 21:4-8 And YHWH will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away. And He Who sat upon the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me: Write, for these words are true and faithful. And He said to me: It is done! I am Aleph and Tau, the Beginning and the End. I will give to him who thirsts of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes will inherit all things; and I will be his Father, and he will be My son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and worshipers of false gods, and all liars, will have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Isaiah 60:20, “No longer does your sun go down, nor your moon withdraw itself, for יהוה shall be your everlasting light, and the days of your mourning shall be ended.”

Revelation 21:23, “And the city had no need of the sun, nor of the moon, to shine in it, for the esteem of Yah lightened it, and the Lamb is its lamp.”

Jeremiah 31:34, “And no longer shall they teach, each one his neighbor, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares יהוה. “For I shall forgive their crookedness, and remember their sin no more.”

 

[Depleted]

Ok I understand. I'm not worried about self... I asked how to be prepared and for my infants. I tell others about Jesus all for the time. To those who want to listen.

The Lord equipped you with all necessary Mom-gene you need. That you are worried about your babies tells me that. That's what being a mom is all about, making sure those kids grow up in the best possible way. (Not to be confused with you'll be Perfect Mom. You won't. But you are already driven to care for them the mostest. Mom-gene may not be scientifically verifiable, but there is something of Mama Bear in every woman, and it gets fercier when the woman has children. lol)

And he equips you for life every moment of every day. More so when you seek him to fill every moment of every day.

He gives us two lessons in life -- that he loves us even more than you love your children. (Seems impossible, doesn't it? I don't get that either, but he promised us that, and he doesn't lie, so it must be true.) And that we trust him.

Know he loves you so very, very much. And trust him to guide you and your babies. And, really notice when he does show he is trustworthy. Not so much that he proves himself, but that you can lean more and more on him after he keeps proving he's trustworthy.

All in all, if you learn that, how can you're infants NOT learn that? Because you're already Momma and want what is best for them. So you will be raising them in what you believe. And the older they get, the older you get. And the older you get, the more proof behind you that the Lord loves you and is trustworthy.

We know, for sure, 4000 years of history on what God has done. (Prehistoric just means what happened before we had any historic documents telling us what happened, so we've been around longer than that. We just don't have much documentation of what happened back then.) So far, it's working just like he planned it. Even on North Korea. Even in the Middle East. Even in Pitman, New Jersey and Boise, Idaho.

Bad stuff will happen. It always happens. BUT we can never predict what the bad stuff will be. So just trust the Lord loves you, and he will make sure you and your kids make it through just as he planned too.

That said -- infants? As in twins, or close births? How many babies do you have to worry about so far?

(My mom had three kids in 26 months. I cannot imagine how she stayed sane with that many babies in one house. lol)

 

[shrume]

Yahshua/Jesus will return after the tribulation before the wrath of YHWH. This is the truth.

Jesus will return TO earth after the trib. He will return before the trib to gather the Christian church. At the rapture, he will not set foot on the earth, but we will meet him in the air (1 Cor 15:51ff and 1 Thes 4:13ff).

The Christian church is not Israel, it is not "spiritual Israel", and it did not replace Israel. The trib (Daniel's 70th week) is prophesied for Israel, not the Christian church.

Also, your view that the seventh seal contains the seven trumpets, and the seventh trumpet contains the seven bowls, is highly debatable. I do not believe it is true.