Trying to understand

[ComeLordJesus]

Probably not in as many cases as we would like to hope, since I see people right here, swearing they have received direct understanding from something they are calling "The Holy Spirit"... yet of perhaps ten or twelve people, 10 or 12 totally differing "opinions" will be given concerning the very same verse.

Before getting into all the head-stuff of having knowledge just imparted to us, it might do to apply a little bit of plain old studying. All through the Bible the meaning of "coming on the clouds" or "the stars and moon going dark" has been written about as pertaining to other places, times, and happenings.... that will tell us just what was meant in the particular Scripture we might be reading at the moment. And those verses were given to us so that we actually COULD know the meanings of the verses presently in front of us.

I'd be willing to bet that "coming in the clouds" is exactly what Acts 1:11 descries how Jesus will return.

 

[shrume]

I'll just "give" it to you the same way it was given to me............ Study to find it. I did.

Otherwise, just go on believing as you choose.

Come on, Willie. I am genuinely interested. Please drop me a few crumbs.

You don't even have to explain it. Just give me a verse reference or two where you believe "coming on the clouds" does not mean coming on the clouds.

 

[ComeLordJesus]

I'll just "give" it to you the same way it was given to me............ Study to find it. I did.

Otherwise, just go on believing as you choose.

Personally I don't see why you can't give Shrume an answer.

 

[Willie-T]

Come on, Willie. I am genuinely interested. Please drop me a few crumbs.

You don't even have to explain it. Just give me a verse reference or two where you believe "coming on the clouds" does not mean coming on the clouds.

Isaiah 19:1

 

[ComeLordJesus]

Come on, Willie. I am genuinely interested. Please drop me a few crumbs.

You don't even have to explain it. Just give me a verse reference or two where you believe "coming on the clouds" does not mean coming on the clouds.

You'd think a verse wouldn't be that hard to type.

 

[Willie-T]

Personally I don't see why you can't give Shrume an answer.

Because the Bible says to "study to show yourself approved...." It does not say to ask Willie, so that all you have then is a possible answer to a specific question, yet still do not understand how it all comes together.

 

[notuptome]

Isaiah 19:1

Why create confusion? What are you seeing in Acts 1:11? Isaiah 19 is Jehovah and Acts 1 is Jesus. One is relative to the catching up and the other is not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ComeLordJesus]

Because the Bible says to "study to show yourself approved...." It does not say to ask Willie, so that all you have then is a possible answer to a specific question, yet still do not understand how it all comes together.

I thought this was a discussion board and to that end people should be helping others.

 

[shrume]

Because the Bible says to "study to show yourself approved...." It does not say to ask Willie, so that all you have then is a possible answer to a specific question, yet still do not understand how it all comes together.

Yes, we are to study.

But don't leave out where we're to help each other.

Acts 8:
30) And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31) And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

 

[Willie-T]

I've told you that many of these things that we just read at 21st Century "face-meanings" are not what they, at first blush, mean to us. There are often several other references to the same things in Scripture. All we have to do is go looking for them.

 

[Willie-T]

Yes, we are to study.

But don't leave out where we're to help each other.

Acts 8:
30) And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31) And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Frankly, most people trying to explain what I just did, by telling someone something, are immediately called (in effect) either liars, fools, or deceivers who have never read the Bible. So, that is one of the reasons I keep telling people to do some studying for themselves.

 

[notuptome]

I've told you that many of these things that we just read at 21st Century "face-meanings" are not what they, at first blush, mean to us. There are often several other references to the same things in Scripture. All we have to do is go looking for them.

Don't attempt to teach. Doctrine is not your strong suit. You start apologizing for scripture even before you cite it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[shrume]

Isaiah 19:1

Isa 19:
1) The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.

Sometimes figurative language is used. That does not mean that a phrase is always figurative.

Matt 24:30, Mark 13, and Luke 21 all say people WILL SEE Jesus returning in the clouds with power and great glory. Acts 1:11 says Jesus WILL COME in like manner as he went to heaven (he was taken up into the clouds).

Otherwise, just go on believing as you choose.

I will continue to believe that at the end of the trib Jesus Christ is going to return in the clouds with power and great glory, and that every eye shall see him.

 

[Willie-T]

Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.​ Acts 1:11

Can you show me where Jesus rode up on a cloud? I only read that he just elevated without the help of a ride on a cloud... all the clouds did was hide Him from view when He got high enough.

Don't you even see how much extra assumption you try to add to simple readings?

 

[ComeLordJesus]

Yes, we are to study.

But don't leave out where we're to help each other.

Acts 8:
30) And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31) And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

The same verse 2Tim.15 also says we are to rightly divide the word of truth. They don't understand that there is a tribulation period Jesus called the Time of Whoas and then there is the Great Tribulation. If they can cast doubt about Jesus coming in the clouds it supports their position that the Great Tribulation happened in 70AD. When all Isaiah 19:1 shows is Jesus' deity.

 

[shrume]

Frankly, most people trying to explain what I just did, by telling someone something, are immediately called (in effect) either liars, fools, or deceivers who have never read the Bible.

Yeah, I get accused of that a lot too, particularly by Calvinists.

I don't usually think people I disagree with are liars, fools, or deceivers, I just think they're wrong.

So, that is one of the reasons I keep telling people to do some studying for themselves.

I try not to let my detractors shut me up. But sometimes it's just not worth the hassle.

 

[Willie-T]

The same verse 2Tim.15 also says we are to rightly divide the word of truth. They don't understand that there is a tribulation period Jesus called the Time of Whoas and then there is the Great Tribulation. If they can cast doubt about Jesus coming in the clouds it supports their position that the Great Tribulation happened in 70AD. When all Isaiah 19:1 shows is Jesus' deity.

Now, this is some easy studying you can handle. Go find the reference to a special event called THE Great Tribulation (You did just make that specific distinction, did you not?)

 

[ComeLordJesus]

Can you show me where Jesus rode up on a cloud? I only read that he just elevated without the help of a ride on a cloud... all the clouds did was hide Him from view when He got high enough.

Don't you even see how much extra assumption you try to add to simple readings?

If you want to think about it that way Matt.24:30 and Acts 1:11 are a perfect match.

 

[shrume]

Don't attempt to teach. Doctrine is not your strong suit. You start apologizing for scripture even before you cite it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That's nothing but an insult.

 

[notuptome]

Isa 19:
1) The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.

Sometimes figurative language is used. That does not mean that a phrase is always figurative.

Matt 24:30, Mark 13, and Luke 21 all say people WILL SEE Jesus returning in the clouds with power and great glory. Acts 1:11 says Jesus WILL COME in like manner as he went to heaven (he was taken up into the clouds).


I will continue to believe that at the end of the trib Jesus Christ is going to return in the clouds with power and great glory, and that every eye shall see him.

You are confusing the second advent of Christ with the catching up of the church. Jesus does return at the end of the tribulation but that is not for the church. He is coming at the end of the tribulation to set up His millennial kingdom. This is a return to Israel and is why I contend that the church is taken up before the tribulation begins. The church is not appointed to wrath but the unsaved world and apostate Israel will surely get a deep taste of wrath.

For the cause of Christ
Roger