unclean spirits are or are not Fallen angels

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vic1980

vic1980

Senior Member
#1
Apr 25, 2013
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#1
By Reading 2 Peter 2:4 For God did not spare even the angels who sinned. He threw them into hell, in gloomy pits of darkness, where they are being held until the day of judgment.

If the fallen angels who sin are being held bond in everlasting chains until the day of Judgement, what exactly are unclean spirits ?

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

God bless
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#2
#2
"And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." Revelation 12:7-9.
 
JesusLives

JesusLives

Senior Member
#3
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,172
113
#3
Unfortunately for us humans - we are tormented and tempted daily by these evil angels. Satan roams about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may destroy... So until Jesus returns and ends this wicked world we are stuck with them.

They will be thrown in hell at the very end to be burned up and destroyed along with Satan and wicked people who refused to accept Jesus sacrifice for them on the cross.
 
JesusLives

JesusLives

Senior Member
#4
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,172
113
#4
Unfortunately for us humans - we are tormented and tempted daily by these evil angels. Satan roams about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may destroy... So until Jesus returns and ends this wicked world we are stuck with them.

They will be thrown in hell at the very end to be burned up and destroyed along with Satan and wicked people who refused to accept Jesus sacrifice for them on the cross.

Happy Birthday Vic1980 - I have a niece, Jennifer born the same day as you.
 
K

KittenofMelchisedek

Guest
#5
#5
You guys are gonna think I'm insane, but there are worse things. I have a feeling that Hell accompanied Death, and is here with us now, bearing down upon the children of Jezebel or Babylon or whichever moniker you'd like. The children of Babylon are made into monsters, but I think they probably have feelings too. They are in Hell, like a fog that rolled in.
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
#6
#6
Unclean spirits are just that: Unclean; evil, demonic. They were created BY God FOR His purposes...and when they do what they were created to do...torment, tempt, hurt, deceive...they, by His magnificent design, give US the CHOICE to adhere to what they do or to what He says in His word.

It is THAT SIMPLE.

Maggie
 
C

chubbena

Guest
#7
#7
vic1980 said:
By Reading 2 Peter 2:4 For God did not spare even the angels who sinned. He threw them into hell, in gloomy pits of darkness, where they are being held until the day of judgment.

If the fallen angels who sin are being held bond in everlasting chains until the day of Judgement, what exactly are unclean spirits ?

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

God bless
Click to expand...
Did the Bible say the angels have stopped falling? Just asking...
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
#8
#8
No. But the Nephilim are still being born: Gen 6:4 "The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, "
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#9
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#9
Are you saying that there is no difference between fallen angels, unclean spirits, and demons? Scripture seems to connect unclean spirits with sickness. ??? You never hear of unclean spirit possession, but you do hear of demon possession. Just wondering. We know that accepting sin as part of our lives is the way to let demons influence us, is that true also of unclean spirits and fallen angels?
 
K

KittenofMelchisedek

Guest
#10
#10
there are all sorts of icky things out there, the Bible is all we need, there could be whole worlds we know nothing about.
 
L

LT

Guest
#11
#11
Sickness is a result of the Fall of Man, not the fall of angels.
However, the Bible suggests in several places that satan/demons have the ability to inflict disease on humans (with the permission of God, as seen in 'Job'). This action of a demonic force causing sickness, or even depression, is described sometimes as an 'unclean spirit'.
As a Christian, you cannot be possessed by a demon, but is seems that we can still be harassed by them.
Regardless of whether all sickness is from 'unclean spirits', or if there is some natural sickness and some supernatural sickness, in everything, God is sovereign, and He has a plan, and His plan is good.

also, there are some angels in prison "Tartarus" awaiting judgement, but not all fallen angels (demons) are in prison.
 
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L

Laodicea

Guest
#12
#12
MaggieMye said:
Unclean spirits are just that: Unclean; evil, demonic. They were created BY God FOR His purposes...and when they do what they were created to do...torment, tempt, hurt, deceive...they, by His magnificent design, give US the CHOICE to adhere to what they do or to what He says in His word.

It is THAT SIMPLE.

Maggie
Click to expand...
Are you saying that God is the author of sin and evil?
 
K

KittenofMelchisedek

Guest
#13
#13
God is creator of all things, if you really want to pick and make a christian squirm by thinking of God as capable of anything "bad" but I'm not squirming. God created me, and I tell you what, there are demons that are way ahead of me without the blood of Christ. All evil is, is a created thing acting without the will of the creator. Which is why I was always told man's numerical value is 6, and God's is 7. All fall short.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#14
#14
God created free choice but, God is not the author of sin, suffering and pain.
 
Allin

Allin

Banned
#15
Jan 6, 2012
1,233
10
0
#15
This is actually a really good question... loaded too. I like what LT and Kitten said. I believe there are different types of evil spirits. In Heaven, we know there are several types of angels... and these are by no means the only types among what seems to be billions of angels. Just based on the titles the Bible uses, we know that there are at least princes (because of the reference to the existence of the chief prince over Israel: Michael), chief princes, archangels, cherubim, seraphim, and guardian angels. On the other side, Paul at least tells us that there are classes of evil spirits: principalities, powers, etc. I believe, from some experiences as well as a bit of practical sense, that there are different types of evil spirits. I think the different translations have stumbled in trying to distinguish them with terms like 'demons, unclean spirit, spirit of an unclean demon', etc.

Vic, I think that since most of the Bible is 'in part', you can safely view many things that are written as being incomplete (incomplete means not everything was explained and spelled out). That passage does say that the angels are kept in chains, etc., but then the Bible also talks about territorial spirits and even princes (in the OT) as well as 'gods' and thrones and dominions. It's safe to say that a demon can't successfully oppose an angel; therefore, the 'prince of Persia' who opposed successfully a messenger angel (thought to be Gabriel) cannot have been less than a former angel (i.e. a fallen angel) himself. Apparently, not all angels are bound in chains but a certain number of them. Consider that if all angels were bound, then satan would have to be bound too. It seems that only certain angels were allowed to continue here on earth while the rest (I'd say a specific group or the greater percentage) was bound up in chains in darkness till the day of judgment. I think classes should be offered on these kinds of topics; but not many people understand these areas, and there's not much teaching about things like this.
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#16
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#16
LT said:
As a Christian, you cannot be possessed by a demon, but is seems that we can still be harassed by them.
.
Click to expand...
From my study of demon possessed people, the only requirement demons make of people they possess is that they accept sin in their life. Demons know all about Christ, they are afraid of Him. Demon possessed people often stay close to the church, it makes a great cover for their sinful lives. In our churches today, it is fashionable to say that Christ got rid of all law, it is only what is in the heart that counts. Scripture says the heart is often evil. With all written law opposed to the law of Christ in the church's mind, Christians are as likely to be possessed as atheist. Often the atheist lives a life freer of sin than the Christian.
 
Allin

Allin

Banned
#17
Jan 6, 2012
1,233
10
0
#17
RedTent said:
From my study of demon possessed people, the only requirement demons make of people they possess is that they accept sin in their life. Demons know all about Christ, they are afraid of Him. Demon possessed people often stay close to the church, it makes a great cover for their sinful lives. In our churches today, it is fashionable to say that Christ got rid of all law, it is only what is in the heart that counts. Scripture says the heart is often evil. With all written law opposed to the law of Christ in the church's mind, Christians are as likely to be possessed as atheist. Often the atheist lives a life freer of sin than the Christian.
Click to expand...
RedTent, I agree. Meanings often get lost amidst words. Let's drop the word 'possessed'. We say Christians can't be possessed by evil spirits since Christ possesses a Christian... but in all the hoopla, we forgot that Christ lives inside a Christian which should get us wondering how living inside suddenly is the same as possessing (or owning). Doesn't real 'possession' (ownership) come from the outside. If Christ lives inside us, can demons live inside us also? The answer is actually yes. Demons can and do live in Christians, because sin gives them legal right to move in and stay. Derek Prince and other authors have taught extensively on this, but the teaching needs to be more wisdespread. When the KJV says 'possessed', the word really means 'demonized' or 'to have a demon'. If Christians could not have demons, there would be little to explain certain attitudes and lifestyles among Christians that are many times worse than what is often observed among non-Christians.
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#18
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#18
Allin said:
This is actually a really good question... loaded too. I like what LT and Kitten said. I believe there are different types of evil spirits. In Heaven, we know there are several types of angels... and these are by no means the only types among what seems to be billions of angels. Just based on the titles the Bible uses, we know that there are at least princes (because of the reference to the existence of the chief prince over Israel: Michael), chief princes, archangels, cherubim, seraphim, and guardian angels. On the other side, Paul at least tells us that there are classes of evil spirits: principalities, powers, etc. I believe, from some experiences as well as a bit of practical sense, that there are different types of evil spirits. I think the different translations have stumbled in trying to distinguish them with terms like 'demons, unclean spirit, spirit of an unclean demon', etc.

Vic, I think that since most of the Bible is 'in part', you can safely view many things that are written as being incomplete (incomplete means not everything was explained and spelled out). That passage does say that the angels are kept in chains, etc., but then the Bible also talks about territorial spirits and even princes (in the OT) as well as 'gods' and thrones and dominions. It's safe to say that a demon can't successfully oppose an angel; therefore, the 'prince of Persia' who opposed successfully a messenger angel (thought to be Gabriel) cannot have been less than a former angel (i.e. a fallen angel) himself. Apparently, not all angels are bound in chains but a certain number of them. Consider that if all angels were bound, then satan would have to be bound too. It seems that only certain angels were allowed to continue here on earth while the rest (I'd say a specific group or the greater percentage) was bound up in chains in darkness till the day of judgment. I think classes should be offered on these kinds of topics; but not many people understand these areas, and there's not much teaching about things like this.
Click to expand...
I think, too, there are different types of evil spirits.

I especially like your point that classes should be offered on this. In our world evil is common. News of genocide almost goes unnoticed. Immorality is even part of our churches. Acceptance of evil is just beginning to come to the field of psychology.

My friend and I discussed this for some time one afternoon. He felt we should only study Christ, that putting knowledge of evil in our minds wasn't profitable. I felt that knowing about evil and being able to recognize it, know how damaging it is, and how to avoid it was profitable. Both of us had valid points. Even in the Lord's Prayer, we pray to be delivered from evil. Evil is in our world, more powerful than ever. How can we stay away from it if we don't recognize it? Evil is promoted by teaching humanism, by teaching tolerance to mean acceptance of evil, by teaching that our possessions are a mark of our worth, that looking sexy is a good thing, that books, TV, movies need to be exciting with pictures of evil. Many ways. Shouldn't we learn to recognize it?
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#19
#19
Allin said:
RedTent, I agree. Meanings often get lost amidst words. Let's drop the word 'possessed'. We say Christians can't be possessed by evil spirits since Christ possesses a Christian... but in all the hoopla, we forgot that Christ lives inside a Christian which should get us wondering how living inside suddenly is the same as possessing (or owning). Doesn't real 'possession' (ownership) come from the outside. If Christ lives inside us, can demons live inside us also? The answer is actually yes. Demons can and do live in Christians, because sin gives them legal right to move in and stay. Derek Prince and other authors have taught extensively on this, but the teaching needs to be more wisdespread. When the KJV says 'possessed', the word really means 'demonized' or 'to have a demon'. If Christians could not have demons, there would be little to explain certain attitudes and lifestyles among Christians that are many times worse than what is often observed among non-Christians.
Click to expand...
Then according to that every christian should be possessed because all have sinned.

Zechariah 3:1-4 KJV
(1) And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
(2) And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
(3) Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
(4) And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
 
K

KittenofMelchisedek

Guest
#20
#20
By no means let me discourage anyone from learning to recognize evil, as I think that is a noble pursuit, and profitable. People are supposed to be able to come to the church not as a cover for a sinful life, but a hospital where saints can lay hands on them and the congregation can pray. It could be the sin in their life, is the result of a spiritual affliction or mental illness. Oh, and there are classes about demons, but only if you are in one of those secret societies or occult schools, or even worse, the buildings that say church on the sign but also a rainbow.
 
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