unclean spirits are or are not Fallen angels

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KittenofMelchisedek

Guest
#21
ps all Christians have been possessed at one time or another, because it you are not serving God, you are serving the enemy by default....but I had this one thing to add before bed.

[h=2]Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean. Isaiah 52[/h]
 
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Tintin

Guest
#22
Serving the enemy and being possessed are two very different things. Also, Christians can be oppressed but not possessed.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#23
ps all Christians have been possessed at one time or another, because it you are not serving God, you are serving the enemy by default....but I had this one thing to add before bed.

Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean. Isaiah 52
Where is scripture evidence to back up all that unsaved people are possessed? Didn't Jesus himself enter a town where the locals knew of a man who was possessed and lived in a cave? Was he the only non-Christian in an entire town of people? Not likely. Why, if all non-Christians are possessed, do we have societies with laws and rules? Why is murder and theft crime? Wouldn't our possessed leaders encourage these destructive behaviors? Even in our sinful, secular societies the fallibility of your unfounded statement is obvious.
 
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Karraster

Guest
#24
Pharaoh hardened his heart again and again. Then God hardened his heart, confirmed him in the decision that he had made. "God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a, that they should believe a lie, that they might be damned.” Hardened his heart, hardened his heart, hardened his heart; then God hardened his heart. The same Scriptures describe Saul, who turning aside from the appeal of Samuel, the prophet of God, and turning aside from the expressed and manifest will of God— "The Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubled him" [1 Samuel 16:14].
 
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KittenofMelchisedek

Guest
#25
First you show me from scripture that every person, whether they're possessed, or oppressed, afflicted by or even host to a demon, was fully aware of it, and had seizures or whatever sign that everyone would take note. The enemy can size us up and know just how to trick us, the same as any Earthly conman. Especially if you are in sin, you're his servant then, and it's poor logic in my opinion, to say that someone who doesn't know they are serving satan should somehow know if they are possessed in some way or not at some point. Anyway, stronger is he that is in you than he that is in the world, and just be glad you live somewhere in which it's legal to possess a Bible.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#26
First you show me from scripture that every person, whether they're possessed, or oppressed, afflicted by or even host to a demon, was fully aware of it, and had seizures or whatever sign that everyone would take note. The enemy can size us up and know just how to trick us, the same as any Earthly conman. Especially if you are in sin, you're his servant then, and it's poor logic in my opinion, to say that someone who doesn't know they are serving satan should somehow know if they are possessed in some way or not at some point. Anyway, stronger is he that is in you than he that is in the world, and just be glad you live somewhere in which it's legal to possess a Bible.
If you are going to make a statement you need to be prepared to back it up with the Bible. You made the statement first so should be prepared to back it up.
 
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danschance

Guest
#27
First you show me from scripture that every person, whether they're possessed, or oppressed, afflicted by or even host to a demon, was fully aware of it, and had seizures or whatever sign that everyone would take note. The enemy can size us up and know just how to trick us, the same as any Earthly conman. Especially if you are in sin, you're his servant then, and it's poor logic in my opinion, to say that someone who doesn't know they are serving satan should somehow know if they are possessed in some way or not at some point. Anyway, stronger is he that is in you than he that is in the world, and just be glad you live somewhere in which it's legal to possess a Bible.
I can't agree with everything you have said, but I can agree with much of it. I was demon possessed and after I became a Christian (again), I was a demon possessed Christian. I did not foam at the mouth or speak obscene things in Latin. I was completely normal except that I had a psychic ability. I was also unaware that I had a demonic problem for years. So I do agree with most of what you said.


If you are going to make a statement you need to be prepared to back it up with the Bible. You made the statement first so should be prepared to back it up.
Laodicea, there is no rule that if a person posts a statement they must be able to back it up with scripture. Also you are not on the Mod team so you can not enforce a rule, especially a rule that does not exist. You might want to rephrase the above statement and show Christian kindness and the concern you have with a person's post, IMHO. To me your post seems to be a threat rather than a request.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#28
Laodicea, there is no rule that if a person posts a statement they must be able to back it up with scripture. Also you are not on the Mod team so you can not enforce a rule, especially a rule that does not exist. You might want to rephrase the above statement and show Christian kindness and the concern you have with a person's post, IMHO. To me your post seems to be a threat rather than a request.
If she is going to say something like all Christians were at one stage possessed then she should back it up with the Bible because it is not Biblical.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
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#29
well there it is, a christian being told off for expecting a christian to use their bible. really?
 
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Karraster

Guest
#30
I don't know if a hardened heart always means an evil spirit. I certainly see scripture that says it leads to unclean spirits. I wouldn't want to risk it!!
 
C

chubbena

Guest
#31
RedTent, I agree. Meanings often get lost amidst words. Let's drop the word 'possessed'. We say Christians can't be possessed by evil spirits since Christ possesses a Christian... but in all the hoopla, we forgot that Christ lives inside a Christian which should get us wondering how living inside suddenly is the same as possessing (or owning). Doesn't real 'possession' (ownership) come from the outside. If Christ lives inside us, can demons live inside us also? The answer is actually yes. Demons can and do live in Christians, because sin gives them legal right to move in and stay. Derek Prince and other authors have taught extensively on this, but the teaching needs to be more wisdespread. When the KJV says 'possessed', the word really means 'demonized' or 'to have a demon'. If Christians could not have demons, there would be little to explain certain attitudes and lifestyles among Christians that are many times worse than what is often observed among non-Christians.
and to add....
One can either be a slave to sin or slave to righteousness.
A slave is owned by the master.
 
L

LT

Guest
#32
There's a lot of good thoughts here, but I don't believe the Scripture agrees with them all.
It is true that when we are not serving God, we are serving ourselves (and in doing so, serving the enemy of God, which is Satan), but calling that demon possession is unfounded by Biblical terms. There is no blessing for us when we are operating in sin, and we should expect discipline from our Heavenly Father (in some form or another), but if you are saved, then you are sealed by the Spirit, and cannot be possessed by any demonic force.

I see that some of you are led astray by holiness-perfection doctrine. If Paul claimed that He had not yet reached perfection (Phil 3:12), how can we assert that we will never again sin once we are saved? Sanctification is a process, through the help of the Holy Spirit. Making a mistake, or a sin of omission or commission, does not destroy our incorruptible inheritance, nor does it remove the Holy Spirit from us. It only can remove blessing from our lives, and cause us to face God's sure discipline in this life. Not demon possession. Not loss of salvation.

-an unclean spirit is one of the many things God has used to discipline His children who have become to comfortable with sin
 
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KittenofMelchisedek

Guest
#33
I don't negotiate with terrorists or comply with requests made with pointed finger. And actually, our possessed leaders do encourage destructive activity, *cough, obamacare, cough*

Danschance, I'm glad you're free now from your demon. There really does need to be more teaching, not about types and ranks and powers, but about how to recognize and deal with demons. It's hard because people get confused with all the different possibilities. Like, telling the difference between a medical problem and an unclean spirit, or how to discern whether something is a gift of the Holy Spirit or just a spirit. There's also the question of backsliding, how much of it is my temptation and how much of it is the enemy? People go to both sides on that one, one saying a hardened heart is evil and the enemy has no more power than we give it, another will say that a "saved" person can get seriously derailed and lead into sin by the devil and it's not the fault of the person. The wonderful thing is, that whatever the point you realize you're sinking, you can reach out to Christ, because through him we are free indeed. Sometimes people need to be reminded though, that they might need to reach out again next week when they start slipping, and if they don't there are natural consequences.
 
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KittenofMelchisedek

Guest
#34
-an unclean spirit is one of the many things God has used to discipline His children who have become to comfortable with sin[/QUOTE]

I'm going to be stealing this line for future use, thanks LT, and thanks for the bit about perfection....people squish on me with that one sometimes. =P
 
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KittenofMelchisedek

Guest
#35
apparently I don't know how to quote. I'm going to do my womanly duty and shut up now lol
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#36
Every time there is a post about demon possession, there are statements made about it that just are not true at all.

Demon possession has, according to people working with it, increased many, many times since 1970. That is because sinfulness is accepted as the norm more and more.

People who believe in Christ can be possessed if they allow sin to be part of their life.

There is a difference between being influenced by demons and being possessed by demons. Very few people are actually possessed, and experts who work with this are very careful and thorough in their examination of a person to determine if they are possessed, simply influenced, or mentally ill.

To say that going to the occult as the only way to learn about demons is very, very wrong. People in the occult are not there to learn about demons, often they don't even know it is demons they are working with. Christians need to learn about demons in order to protect themselves from them. We need to go to people like Danschance who has experience. We need to arm ourselves with all words of God and protect ourselves with Christ when we look in this subject. And we need to stay away from people or books that talk about this without a Christ centered base.

Scripture gives us a good way to start. Our Lord's prayer talks of asking for protection from this. Jesus worked with demons. There are books out giving the stories of men who have served as doctors for possession, who tell of coming face to face with demons and overcoming them. M Scott Peck, Malachi Martin, G. P Haggart come to mind.

The need for learning about this wasn't necessary not long ago, for there was little of it. For a time in our world, the church was so uninformed they committed murder of alleged victims. Today, where would you go if you suspected that a family member was possessed? You would need help badly. The church should be prepared to help.
 
L

LT

Guest
#37
Every time there is a post about demon possession, there are statements made about it that just are not true at all.

Demon possession has, according to people working with it, increased many, many times since 1970. That is because sinfulness is accepted as the norm more and more.

People who believe in Christ can be possessed if they allow sin to be part of their life.

There is a difference between being influenced by demons and being possessed by demons. Very few people are actually possessed, and experts who work with this are very careful and thorough in their examination of a person to determine if they are possessed, simply influenced, or mentally ill.

To say that going to the occult as the only way to learn about demons is very, very wrong. People in the occult are not there to learn about demons, often they don't even know it is demons they are working with. Christians need to learn about demons in order to protect themselves from them. We need to go to people like Danschance who has experience. We need to arm ourselves with all words of God and protect ourselves with Christ when we look in this subject. And we need to stay away from people or books that talk about this without a Christ centered base.

Scripture gives us a good way to start. Our Lord's prayer talks of asking for protection from this. Jesus worked with demons. There are books out giving the stories of men who have served as doctors for possession, who tell of coming face to face with demons and overcoming them. M Scott Peck, Malachi Martin, G. P Haggart come to mind.

The need for learning about this wasn't necessary not long ago, for there was little of it. For a time in our world, the church was so uninformed they committed murder of alleged victims. Today, where would you go if you suspected that a family member was possessed? You would need help badly. The church should be prepared to help.
-I understand your position on the issue of possession, but I will strongly point out that it is not Biblically-based. If the experiences of a few men contradict the clear teachings of Scripture regarding demon possession, the men are mistaken not the Word of God.
-Allowing sin into your life is a sure sign that a person has no faith in God: because by their actions, they are demonstrating that they do not believe that God WILL actively discipline them in THIS life for their sin; but it does not have to do with 'possession'. Humans are responsible for their own sin.

The Holy Spirit protects any and all who are saved. This protection eliminates the possibility of demon possession.
There is NO Biblical basis for saying that a Christian can be possessed by a demon. If that is your actual belief, please start a new thread so I can show you all the verses in Philippians, 1&2 Peter, James, Romans, Revelation, and in the Gospels that clearly show that: all believers are saved, all the saved are sealed/indwelt with the Holy Spirit, and all those sealed are protected from demons.

Humans have an attraction to sin without the help of demons.
Linking all sin to demons is like linking all murders to serial killers.
Sure, some temptation is caused by demonic forces, but many times, people aren't following the will of God because they have no faith in His activity in the world today.

Also, the Lord's Prayer is an example, not a mantra. It is great to memorize, but prayer is meant to be communication, not repetition.
 
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Oct 31, 2011
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#38
I wish, as Christians, we could agree on what scripture tells us and what we see in our world.

-Allowing sin into your life is a sure sign that a person has no faith in God: because by their actions, they are demonstrating that they do not believe that God WILL actively discipline them in THIS life for their sin; but it does not have to do with 'possession'. Humans are responsible for their own sin.
Of course, allowing sin in our life doesn't mean we are possessed. According to Christ, and according to people's experience with possessed people, there is an actual demon living within them the people have chosen to give control of part of their life to. Many people who habitually sin are not possessed
.The Holy Spirit protects any and all who are saved. This protection eliminates the possibility of demon possession.
There is NO Biblical basis for saying that a Christian can be possessed by a demon. If that is your actual belief, please start a new thread so I can show you all the verses in Philippians, 1&2 Peter, James, Romans, Revelation, and in the Gospels that clearly show that: all believers are saved, all the saved are sealed/indwelt with the Holy Spirit, and all those sealed are protected from demons.
When people give complete control of their life to the Holy Spirit, they also daily cleanse themselves by honestly and bravely facing their sin and repenting of it. But being possessed means that they chose to not give complete control to the Holy Spirit within them, they chose to follow a spirit of evil so it can live within them. We are always free to choose, even after we have received the Holy Spirit. It would be nice if God took our choice away when we accept Christ, but that is pie in the sky. We can still choose. The 40 days Christ spent in the wilderness being tempted is one illustration of that.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#39
Are you saying that God is the author of sin and evil?
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. He seems to tell us what we need to know and what to believe.
 
B

Blooming_Violet

Guest
#40
Question:

If:
Ephesians 6:12New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]12 [/SUP]For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Should a Christian learn about demons by name? Is it valuable for spiritual warfare? If so, where should some one study this? Can someone describe in practical terms spiritual warfare?

I got a new NKJV Spiritual Warfare Bible for the new year. I am typically a NIV, NASB kinda gal. This is something I have stayed away from but am feeling convicted that if I am a part of the Lord's army, am I doing my part to protect myself and others.

Looking for practical info...