US taxes to support Israel

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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#21
Oh, do not support Israel with tax dollars. But do support Egypt, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi arabia and so on (the people that want to kill us and see us destroyed) with billions of tax dollars. I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.
Exactly what came to mind for me also.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
48
#22
Sounds like everyone is opposed to US foreign aid to Arab countries, no surprise there. I would still like to understand why so many Christian support foreign aid to Israel. I am reading that Israel gets more US foreign aid than any other country, over THREE BILLION DOLLARS in 2012 alone! The article I am reading says the main reason is US Christian voters who feel the funding is needed for dispensationalism. I don’t understand why dispensationalism would create this US funding need, can anyone explain it to me?
Actully the money delcared as "Foriegn Aid" to Israel should really be declared under military reasearch, but that would outrage the Arab nations, so its "Aid".

Israels military research and development is better than anyone else in the world, including America. Israeli scientists and engineers develops outstanding hardware and makes significant improvements to American designed and built hardware. Just about all of which is funded by America, in return the USA gets to manufacture these and often has exclusive use of these designs and developments, apart from Israel of course.

So, in short, the USA give ISrael money, who then use it to develop weapons, US owned companies then get to build these, and the US army gets to play with new toys. The bulk of the "Aid" money ends up being paid back to American companies.

Its WIN WIN WIN situation. IF more Americans realised this they would not be so quick to ask for "Aid" to be stopped going to Israel.
 
T

Trax

Guest
#23
this has nothing to do with the jews.
it's about Abraham and JESUS.

salvation.
for the world.

carnal minds don't get it.
dispensationalism strikes, and millions get murdered.

oh ya....that's God's Plan A coming back around, eh?

oh PUKE
Num 24:1-9 And when Balaam saw that it pleased the LORD to bless Israel, he went not, as
at other times, to seek for enchantments, but he set his face toward the wilderness. (2) And
Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes; and
the spirit of God came upon him. (3) And he took up his parable, and said, Balaam the son of
Beor hath said, and the man whose eyes are open hath said: (4) He hath said, which heard the
words of God, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open:
(5) How goodly are thy tents, O Jacob, and thy tabernacles, O Israel! (6) As the valleys are they
spread forth, as gardens by the river's side, as the trees of lign aloes which the LORD hath planted,
and as cedar trees beside the waters. (7) He shall pour the water out of his buckets, and his
seed shall be in many waters, and his king shall be higher than Agag, and his kingdom shall be
exalted. (8) God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn:
he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with
his arrows. (9) He couched, he lay down as a lion, and as a great lion: who shall stir him up?
Blessed is he that blesseth thee, and cursed is he that curseth thee.

Its about the Jews and it is still in effect.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
12,956
8,671
113
#24
Again and again Scripture has been shown in these anti-Israel threads That God is not done with the Jews And Israel, and ALL of His promises will be fulfilled. It has had no effect on those who so vigorously preach against them.

So I would ask you to use logic. Who are you aligning yourself with in their hatred of Israel? Well, the entirety of the muslim world, virtually all of Europe who stood by and watched, AND AIDED, in the systematic torture, imprisonment, and gassing of millions of Jews, the U.N., and eventually the whole world. WHAT THE HECK DOES THAT TELL YOU!!!!?? If the existence of Israel was a good thing from Satan's point of view, why is he employing virtually the whole world against it?

I find it incredibly disturbing to see supposed Christians supporting the goal of Satan to see the destruction of Israel.

Yes, we KNOW that no one will be saved except by accepting Jesus Christ, Jew and gentile alike, BUT there will be a remnant of Jews IN Israel who will accept Jesus. God will judge the Jews and Israel and use ungodly evil men and nations to do it, like Germany and Hitler, and Babylon and Nebuchadnezzar. WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO BE LIKE THEM!?
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
#25
It is very hard to understand why smart people can read the Bible and not see the truth presented within its pages. The Abrahamic covenant that God made was an unconditional cov, It is a never ending cov. it is still in force today. Just read Romams chapters 9and 11 ,it is so clear ,that God has not rejected the Jewish nation. the callings of God are irrevocable. a blindness has happen only until the fullness of the Gentles come to salvation, then God will deal with Israel again as a nation.God rejected them for a while ,that was God's riches to the world,and now God has brought them back into their land to further judge them and in the end to bless then as a nation by sending Jesus back to them and then all the living Jews will be saved when they see Jesus coming back to Jerusalem to rule the earth for 1,000 yrs. How can smart people be so dumb. I could go on and on, but ,if you don't read it for yourself, you won't believe it. If God doesn't get you to question everything you think is right,you will never see the truth. But we all have a "free" will to chose what we want to believe. Love to you all, Hoffco
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#26
I don't understand the sarcasm. This isn't what the OP or anyone here wants. We should not be funding or supporting any of those countries. Remember the goals of the founding fathers? To create a nation that would not be tied up with all the rivalry in other nations, to show the world an example of something better: a place where individual liberty allows people to pursue a better life. Christians know that the best life is summed up in Matthew 22:37: "‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ ... ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’"

George Washington, 1796 Farewell Address: “It will be worthy of a free, enlightened, and at no distant period, a great nation, to give to mankind the magnanimous and too novel example of a people always guided by an exalted justice and benevolence. … Nothing is more essential than that permanent, inveterate antipathies against particular nations, and passionate attachments for others, should be excluded; and that, in place of them, just and amicable feelings towards all should be cultivated. The nation which indulges towards another a habitual hatred or a habitual fondness is in some degree a slave. … Such attachments are particularly alarming to the truly enlightened and independent patriot. How many opportunities do they afford to tamper with domestic factions, to practice the arts of seduction, to mislead public opinion, to influence or awe the public councils. … The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. … Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice? It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world.”
Then why is Israel the target of this thread as we support other countries as well?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#27
Actully the money delcared as "Foriegn Aid" to Israel should really be declared under military reasearch, but that would outrage the Arab nations, so its "Aid".

Israels military research and development is better than anyone else in the world, including America. Israeli scientists and engineers develops outstanding hardware and makes significant improvements to American designed and built hardware. Just about all of which is funded by America, in return the USA gets to manufacture these and often has exclusive use of these designs and developments, apart from Israel of course.

So, in short, the USA give ISrael money, who then use it to develop weapons, US owned companies then get to build these, and the US army gets to play with new toys. The bulk of the "Aid" money ends up being paid back to American companies.

Its WIN WIN WIN situation. IF more Americans realised this they would not be so quick to ask for "Aid" to be stopped going to Israel.
zI was just going to say the direction the US is heading it wont be long til we sre third world status appreciative of any handout we can get.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#28
It is very hard to understand why smart people can read the Bible and not see the truth presented within its pages. The Abrahamic covenant that God made was an unconditional cov, It is a never ending cov. it is still in force today. Just read Romams chapters 9and 11 ,it is so clear ,that God has not rejected the Jewish nation. the callings of God are irrevocable. a blindness has happen only until the fullness of the Gentles come to salvation, then God will deal with Israel again as a nation.God rejected them for a while ,that was God's riches to the world,and now God has brought them back into their land to further judge them and in the end to bless then as a nation by sending Jesus back to them and then all the living Jews will be saved when they see Jesus coming back to Jerusalem to rule the earth for 1,000 yrs. How can smart people be so dumb. I could go on and on, but ,if you don't read it for yourself, you won't believe it. If God doesn't get you to question everything you think is right,you will never see the truth. But we all have a "free" will to chose what we want to believe. Love to you all, Hoffco
Hoffco,

"If God doesn't get you to question everything you think is right,you will never see the truth."

this is amazing to me, because the scenario you posted is a fiction known as dispensationalism.
Jesus came to His Own already.
have you read it?

the covenant with Abraham was promises concerning physical things which really happened (past tense) that were types of spiritual things (which are now happening).

Galatians 3:16
Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

if you go to the Septuagint (which is what Paul is quoting from), you will see that Paul did not make a mistake.

"He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ."

who does God consider Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise?

Galatians 3:29
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

....

the fullness of the gentiles isn't a futurist marker in time.
it's a description of the Household of God (enlarged by the filling up with) the entry; acceptance and inclusion of the gentiles.
the blindness that happened to part of israel was the unbelieving part.
if they continued not in unbelief, they could be grafted back in.

both the inclusion of the gentiles as God's purpose; and the blindness of part of israel was foretold and told about over and again to them in their history. we can read about it all - beginning with promise made to Abram.

the physical comes first as a type, and the spiritual comes after - one is a pattern and the other is the reality.
the physical nation of Israel and everything the she was given was real; and meaningful and was all of grace.
the Law was brought in because of transgressions - so that - everyone in the world would be shown to be sinners and lawbreakers, in need of the Savior who was Promised in the protoevangelium in Eden.

....

Mark 11:33b
And Jesus said to them, "Nor will I tell you by what authority I do these things."

Mark 12
Parable of the Vine-growers


1And He began to speak to them in parables: “A man PLANTED A VINEYARD AND PUT A WALL AROUND IT, AND DUG A VAT UNDER THE WINE PRESS AND BUILT A TOWER, and rented it out to vine-growers and went on a journey.2“At the harvest time he sent a slave to the vine-growers, in order to receive some of the produce of the vineyard from the vine-growers.3“They took him, and beat him and sent him away empty-handed.4“Again he sent them another slave, and they wounded him in the head, and treated him shamefully.5“And he sent another, and that one they killed; and so with many others, beating some and killing others.6“He had one more to send, a beloved son; he sent him last of all to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’7“But those vine-growers said to one another, ‘This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours!’8“They took him, and killed him and threw him out of the vineyard.9“What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the vine-growers, and will give the vineyard to others.


Matthew 21:42
Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures, 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone; THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES '? 43"Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.


remember this?


Matthew 8
5And when Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, imploring Him,6and saying, “Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, fearfully tormented.”7Jesus said to him, “I will come and heal him.”8But the centurion said, “Lord, I am not worthy for You to come under my roof, but just say the word, and my servant will be healed.9“For I also am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to this one, ‘Go!’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come!’ and he comes, and to my slave, ‘Do this!’ and he does it.”10Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those who were following, “Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel.11“I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven;12but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

......

read this again:

Romans 11:31
30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.

"that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy"

does this make more sense?

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

how can Paul say that?

he explains:

Romans 9
19You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?”20On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it?21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?23And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,24even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.

25As He says also in Hosea,
“I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, ‘MY PEOPLE,’
AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, ‘BELOVED.’”

26“AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, ‘YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,’
THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD.”

27Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE SONS OF ISRAEL BE LIKE THE SAND OF THE SEA, IT IS THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED;28FOR THE LORD WILL EXECUTE HIS WORD ON THE EARTH, THOROUGHLY AND QUICKLY.”

29And just as Isaiah foretold,
“UNLESS THE LORD OF SABAOTH HAD LEFT TO US A POSTERITY,
WE WOULD HAVE BECOME LIKE SODOM, AND WOULD HAVE RESEMBLED GOMORRAH.”

30What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;31but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.32Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,

33just as it is written,
“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”

....

Paul has only repeated what Jesus already said, and Jesus was reminding them of what the prophets had already said:

Matthew 21:42
Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the Scriptures, 'THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone; THIS CAME ABOUT FROM THE LORD, AND IT IS MARVELOUS IN OUR EYES '? 43"Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it.


The Mystery of God's Purpose - HOW people (jews and gentiles) are made partakers of the Promise in Christ (made to Abraham) -THE GOSPEL, which is, adoption is by grace through faith VIA the preaching of the Gospel...not via a reversl of the order of God's Purpose:

Ephesians 3
1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—2if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you;3that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.4By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,5which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;6to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,7of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God’s grace which was given to me according to the working of His power.8To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,9and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things;10so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places.11This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord,12in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him.


finally....there's no future temporary 1,000 year Kingdom where God reverts to the physical again after having revealed His expansive and inclusive spiritual plan.

Jesus already said His kingdom was not of this world.

Paul already said Jerusalem on earth was not our mother. Jerusalem above (Heavenly Zion where Christ is) is our mother.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#29
Oh, do not support Israel with tax dollars. But do support Egypt, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi arabia and so on (the people that want to kill us and see us destroyed) with billions of tax dollars. I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.
Mark 11,

[SUP]14 [/SUP]In response Jesus said to it, “Let no one eat fruit from you ever again.”And His disciples heard it.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#30
Mark 11

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then He taught, saying to them, “Is it not written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations’? But you have made it a ‘den of thieves.’ ”

Who is God temple today? The Church! Who should we pray for and support? ALL NATIONS! There is no Partiality in Jesus Christ.

James 2
2 My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, [SUP]3 [/SUP]and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” [SUP]4 [/SUP]have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? [SUP]6 [/SUP]But you have dishonored the poor man. Do not the rich oppress you and drag you into the courts? [SUP]7 [/SUP]Do they not blaspheme that noble name by which you are called?

[SUP]8 [/SUP]If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,”[SUP] [/SUP]you do well; [SUP]9 [/SUP]but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,”[SUP][/SUP] also said, “Do not murder.”[SUP][/SUP] Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. [SUP]12 [/SUP]So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#31
Actully the money delcared as "Foriegn Aid" to Israel should really be declared under military reasearch, but that would outrage the Arab nations, so its "Aid".

Israels military research and development is better than anyone else in the world, including America. Israeli scientists and engineers develops outstanding hardware and makes significant improvements to American designed and built hardware. Just about all of which is funded by America, in return the USA gets to manufacture these and often has exclusive use of these designs and developments, apart from Israel of course.

So, in short, the USA give ISrael money, who then use it to develop weapons, US owned companies then get to build these, and the US army gets to play with new toys. The bulk of the "Aid" money ends up being paid back to American companies.

Its WIN WIN WIN situation. IF more Americans realised this they would not be so quick to ask for "Aid" to be stopped going to Israel.
Israel has been selling their military technology to China.

A report in the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz concluded: "Following the crisis, one can sense the repulsion toward Israel among lower- and middle-ranking officials in Washington.

"More and more of them are saying that it is not worth doing business with Israel."
The US believes that Israeli officials lied to them about the export of Harpy Killer drones to China.

US acts over Israeli arms sales to China | World news | The Guardian

Win win win ? China probably think so.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#32
Num 24:1-9 And when Balaam saw that it pleased the LORD to bless Israel, he went not, as
at other times, to seek for enchantments, but he set his face toward the wilderness. (2) And
Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes; and
the spirit of God came upon him. (3) And he took up his parable, and said, Balaam the son of
Beor hath said, and the man whose eyes are open hath said: (4) He hath said, which heard the
words of God, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open:
(5) How goodly are thy tents, O Jacob, and thy tabernacles, O Israel! (6) As the valleys are they
spread forth, as gardens by the river's side, as the trees of lign aloes which the LORD hath planted,
and as cedar trees beside the waters. (7) He shall pour the water out of his buckets, and his
seed shall be in many waters, and his king shall be higher than Agag, and his kingdom shall be
exalted. (8) God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn:
he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with
his arrows. (9) He couched, he lay down as a lion, and as a great lion: who shall stir him up?
Blessed is he that blesseth thee, and cursed is he that curseth thee.

Its about the Jews and it is still in effect.
i don't even know what to say to this.
you don't know anything about who God said are his people.

let Paul explain it to you...if you don't believe him, what can i say?

look for the whole point in both passgaes:

"it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants"

......


Romans 9
6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;7nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.”8That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.9For this is the word of promise: “AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON.”10And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac;11for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,12it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.”13Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”

14What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!15For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.”16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.”18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

.....

Galatians 4
Sonship in Christ


1Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything,2but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father.3So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world.4But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,5so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.6Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”7Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

8However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods.9But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?10You observe days and months and seasons and years.11I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

12I beg of you, brethren, become as I am, for I also have become as you are. You have done me no wrong;13but you know that it was because of a bodily illness that I preached the gospel to you the first time;14and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition you did not despise or loathe, but you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.15Where then is that sense of blessing you had? For I bear you witness that, if possible, you would have plucked out your eyes and given them to me.16So have I become your enemy by telling you the truth?17They eagerly seek you, not commendably, but they wish to shut you out so that you will seek them.18But it is good always to be eagerly sought in a commendable manner, and not only when I am present with you.19My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you—20but I could wish to be present with you now and to change my tone, for I am perplexed about you.

Bond and Free

21Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law?22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.23But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise.24This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar.25Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.26But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.

27For it is written,
“REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR;
BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR;
FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE
THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND.”

28And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.29But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.

30But what does the Scripture say?
“CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,
FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”

31So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

......

"And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise"

God's Sovereign Choice. election, by Grace.
Mercy, and promise. faith in the promise. not by natural birth or flesh.
don't you believe anything He said?

"it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants"

"when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,5so that He might redeem those who were under the Law"

did the fullness of time already come?
what did God do when the fullness of time came?
did Jesus redeem those under the Law?

who is redeemed?

children of the flesh? or children of promise?

what BLASPHEMY and a complete repudiation of everything GOD ALREADY SAID AND DID to invent some fictional future scenario where it becomes FLESH and natural descent! which makes zero sense unless you have 'ALL ISRAEL" (jews) being saved in UNBELIEF during each of their lifetimes prior to your (unwritten) magic day when Jesus comes to REDO what He ALREADY DID.

if "blind" jews aren't saved (every single one for the last 2000 years) in their unbelief - then YOUR (Scofield's) version of ALL ISRAEL is not only wrong, it's demonic.

i can't think of a more devious false doctrine that is ANTIJEWISH from start to finish - OH! NO GOSPEL FOR YOU - YOU ARE "ALL ISRAEL" and it's all about you anyways, even though you are dying in your sins.

Galatians 3
Sons Through Faith in Christ

28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

....



SCOFIELD'S BASIC ERRORS


1. He disregards the witness, the doctrines and the examples of interpretation of the Old Testament that are given us by the apostles in the New Testament.

2. He usurps apostolic authority by contradicting their clear teaching and so setting himself above them.

3. He makes false statements exactly opposite to known facts to support his false doctrines.

4. The greatest reigning error of this century is his teaching that promises a millennial kingdom on the earth after Christ returns for his church. (cf. Ro 8:18-23.)

5. That the church was not foreseen and that the prophets never prophesy of the church. (Isa 54:1; Hos 1:9-10; 2:23; Gal 4:2130; Ro 9:22-26 and 1Pe 2:9-10.)

SCOFIELD note (SRB 1917, 1967) on Mt 4:17: "When Christ appeared to the Jewish people, the next thing, in the order of revelation as it then stood, should have been the setting up of the Davidic kingdom. In the knowledge of God, not yet disclosed, lay the rejection of the kingdom and the King, the long period of the mystery-form kingdom, the worldwide preaching of the cross and the out-calling of the church. But this was as yet locked up in the secret counsels of God." Then he gives Mt 13:11,17 and Eph. 3:3-10.

ANSWER: The first statement -- "When Christ first appeared to the Jewish people the next thing should have been the setting up of the kingdom," is the error of the Pharisees, that Christ should appear as a mighty warrior conquering the world for Israel and setting up such a kingdom on earth. Scofield's notes reveal this as his understanding of the kingdom. He declares that is what should have been according to the revelation to that point. Nothing could be further from the truth. That is absolute heresy. Israel, clinging to this false hope, lost everything in A.D. 70. Scofield falsely assumed that the Davidic Covenant prophesied an earthly enthronement of Christ upon the throne of David with Jews ruling over all.

ANALYZING Cyrus I. Scofield and His Teaching < click


“What is indisputably, absolutely, and uncompromisingly essential to the Christian religion is its doctrine of salvation… If Dispensationalism has actually departed from the only way of salvation which the Christian religion teaches, then we must say it has departed from Christianity. No matter how many other important truths it proclaims, it cannot be called Christian if it empties Christianity of its essential message. We define a cult as a religion which claims to be Christian while emptying Christianity of that which is essential to it. If Dispensationalism does this, then Dispensationalism is a cult and not a branch of the Christian church. It is as serious as that. It is impossible to exaggerate the gravity of the situation."

- John H. Gerstner Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth: A Critique of Dispensationalism < click


whatever
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#33
Israel has been selling their military technology to China.

A report in the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz concluded: "Following the crisis, one can sense the repulsion toward Israel among lower- and middle-ranking officials in Washington.

"More and more of them are saying that it is not worth doing business with Israel."
The US believes that Israeli officials lied to them about the export of Harpy Killer drones to China.

US acts over Israeli arms sales to China | World news | The Guardian

Win win win ? China probably think so.
why wouldn't they be?
who was Mao Zedong's Public Relations man; and who was his Banker?
he was a Skull & Bones man-in-the-middle.

why this is hard i do not know.
well, i do.

 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#34
Actully the money delcared as "Foriegn Aid" to Israel should really be declared under military reasearch, but that would outrage the Arab nations, so its "Aid".

Israels military research and development is better than anyone else in the world, including America. Israeli scientists and engineers develops outstanding hardware and makes significant improvements to American designed and built hardware. Just about all of which is funded by America, in return the USA gets to manufacture these and often has exclusive use of these designs and developments, apart from Israel of course.

So, in short, the USA give ISrael money, who then use it to develop weapons, US owned companies then get to build these, and the US army gets to play with new toys. The bulk of the "Aid" money ends up being paid back to American companies.

Its WIN WIN WIN situation. IF more Americans realised this they would not be so quick to ask for "Aid" to be stopped going to Israel.
THEN YOU BETTER HOPE ISRAEL IS YOUR FRIEND AND NOT YOUR ENEMY.

and you are in for a big surprise the day you wake up - if you EVER DO.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#35
This then is the good news. The present and future success of Christ's kingdom on earth now is ensured. Why? Because Satan is a defeated foe, plundered by Christ and bound already, as Revelation 20:2 makes clear. But some would disagree with my conviction that Satan is already bound and the millennium begun. I have in mind here the premillennial dispensationalist who believes that only Christ's second coming will usher in the millennium of Revelation 20:1-9. In their view, Christ must return to earth again to bind Satan. Then the reign of Christ's kingdom on earth for a thousand years will begin and then will the nations be 'undeceived' (Rev. 20:3). Until Christ's return, Satan is actively deceiving the nations, hindering the gospel and ravaging the church sufficiently to prevent the reign of King Jesus from taking place on earth. But after Christ returns, then He will reign with His saints from Jerusalem for a thousand years (Rev.20:4-9). Proponents of this view are therefore called premillennialists because they believe that Christ's Second Coming must take place before Satan is bound, the kingdom of God established and the millennium inaugurated.

Now, there are many comments which come to mind about this idea that only Christ's second coming will effectively bind Satan and bring the kingdom to earth. But I want us to think in particular about how this premillennialist dispensationalist view renders the kingdom of God on earth as non-existent today. Adherents of this view say that the nations in Rev. 20:3 (literally the ethne, the Gentile world) are so deceived and Satanically incapacitated as to make it impossible for the kingdom of God to be established on earth at this time. For them, the kingdom is a future hope of which the church of today is not a part! In fact, according to these dispensationalists, the separation between the church of today and the future kingdom of the millennium is so complete that they divide the Bible into two books: the book of the Kingdom and the book of the church, with a different gospel for each of these ages: the gospel of free grace which the church is to preach today and the gospel of the kingdom which will be preached after Christ returns and the kingdom millennium begins.

But for now, the kingdom of God and the good news of its arrival on earth is non-existent. Only after the Church is raptured up to heaven and Satan is bound in the bottomless pit will the Gentile world have an unfettered opportunity to know the full earthly reign of Christ in their lives. This will be the great conversion of the Gentile world, the "7th dispensation", the "kingdom dispensation" when Christ will take the kingdom covenanted to David and bring it to earth successfully for the first time. Only then will Old Testament prophecies of the coming of the kingdom be fulfilled.

Pause and take that in. Here are people, in fact, many American Christians, who truly believe that Satan must be bound at some future return of Christ before the promises of the kingdom on earth can be fulfilled and before the gospel can truly be effective in the conversion of the nations. Until then, the nations are so deceived that evidence of Christ's reign on earth will be meager as society goes from bad to worse. Such folk, like my dear grandmother, grimly concluding that the "end must be near" (as things in American Society in the 60's went from bad to worse), seek to escape from this world's problems by hoping that the rapture is about to happen. There is no hope in this view, you see, for the nations to be undeceived now; for the gospel to have worldwide success, progress and growth now.

But it gets worse: at least some dispensationalists think that Christ indeed did attempt to bring the kingdom of God to earth at His first coming, but could not establish it in the face of human disobedience and sin. According to premillennial dispensationalist Dave Hunt, quoted by Bruce Barron in his book, Heaven on Earth?, God had a "thorough-going change of plans" after Jesus was unable to overcome the antagonism of the Jews. According to Barron, Hunt claims that, "Jesus came to earth initially at the Incarnation to inaugurate the kingdom of God but, when rejected by the Jews, narrowed his agenda and called forth the church instead."

The Amillennial View of the Binding of Satan < click


"God had a "thorough-going change of plans" after Jesus was unable to overcome the antagonism of the Jews. According to Barron, Hunt claims that, "Jesus came to earth initially at the Incarnation to inaugurate the kingdom of God but, when rejected by the Jews, narrowed his agenda and called forth the church instead."

OH....GOD CAUGHT OFF GUARD BY HIS FAILED PLAN A.

SO IN COMES PLAN B.

THEN AFTER JESUS RETURNS, PLAN A AGAIN.

total heresy.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#36
I find it incredibly disturbing to see supposed Christians supporting the goal of Satan to see the destruction of Israel.
SO DO I.

i find it EXTREMELY disturbing that supposed Christians do not know WHO IS ISRAEL.

though they CLAIM to be part of the Christian Church, they are actively participating in (ultimately futile) attempts to destroy her. and they think they are serving God.

what a joke.

this must just be a giant question mark in their minds.....like HUH? what does THAT mean, Paul:confused:

Galatians 3
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

....

i would want to see the future 1,000 year thing.

because if that is NOT written, what will you do about all this false doctrine?

where is it?

let's see the 1,000 years!
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#37

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#38
Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II.

U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel
Jeremy M. Sharp
Specialist in Middle Eastern Affairs
April 11, 2013
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf < click


what's your complaint, there, dispensationalists?

Israel is not powerful enough yet?

never fear - the Israel Lobby thanks you for your blind loyalty and (self) destructive fanaticism. none of this AntiChrist activity could have happened without you.


"Israel’s backers also portray it as a country that has sought peace at every turn and shown great restraint even when provoked. The Arabs, by contrast, are said to have acted with great wickedness. Yet on the ground, Israel’s record is not distinguishable from that of its opponents. Ben-Gurion acknowledged that the early Zionists were far from benevolent towards the Palestinian Arabs, who resisted their encroachments – which is hardly surprising, given that the Zionists were trying to create their own state on Arab land. In the same way, the creation of Israel in 1947-48 involved acts of ethnic cleansing, including executions, massacres and rapes by Jews, and Israel’s subsequent conduct has often been brutal, belying any claim to moral superiority. Between 1949 and 1956, for example, Israeli security forces killed between 2700 and 5000 Arab infiltrators, the overwhelming majority of them unarmed. The IDF murdered hundreds of Egyptian prisoners of war in both the 1956 and 1967 wars, while in 1967, it expelled between 100,000 and 260,000 Palestinians from the newly conquered West Bank, and drove 80,000 Syrians from the Golan Heights.

During the first intifada, the IDF distributed truncheons to its troops and encouraged them to break the bones of Palestinian protesters. The Swedish branch of Save the Children estimated that ‘23,600 to 29,900 children required medical treatment for their beating injuries in the first two years of the intifada.’ Nearly a third of them were aged ten or under. The response to the second intifada has been even more violent, leading Ha’aretz to declare that ‘the IDF … is turning into a killing machine whose efficiency is awe-inspiring, yet shocking.’ The IDF fired one million bullets in the first days of the uprising. Since then, for every Israeli lost, Israel has killed 3.4 Palestinians, the majority of whom have been innocent bystanders; the ratio of Palestinian to Israeli children killed is even higher (5.7:1). It is also worth bearing in mind that the Zionists relied on terrorist bombs to drive the British from Palestine, and that Yitzhak Shamir, once a terrorist and later prime minister, declared that ‘neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat.’"

- The Israel Lobby, John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt




oh that sounds like the Great Commission. for sure.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#39
zI was just going to say the direction the US is heading it wont be long til we sre third world status appreciative of any handout we can get.
and you don't see any connection, crossnote?