Victoria OSTEEN SAID WHAT!!!!
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If we're going to be brutally honest, the only reason many Christians do anything 'for God' is ultimately out of a desire for their own security, or their own salvation, or their own avoidance of hell, or for their own good standing with the creator, or to be looked fondly upon by God. I mean, really, preachers preach 'repent and you will be saved', and it's that thought of reward or of avoidance of punishment that drives most if not all Christian people.
This woman's being more truthful about the idiosyncrasy of 'selflessness' for an ultimately selfish end than I've seen much of in a lot of religious circles. When we really examine it, there's always an end reward for 'me' in sight that ultimately justifies adherence to the dictum, however counter-intuitive that dictum may really feel to the adherent.
There are of course, the exceptions, who recognize the benefit of living lives in a certain manner, and have more profound motives for faith; the pursuance of peace, the cause of others, if only for the cause's own sake.
This woman's being more truthful about the idiosyncrasy of 'selflessness' for an ultimately selfish end than I've seen much of in a lot of religious circles. When we really examine it, there's always an end reward for 'me' in sight that ultimately justifies adherence to the dictum, however counter-intuitive that dictum may really feel to the adherent.
There are of course, the exceptions, who recognize the benefit of living lives in a certain manner, and have more profound motives for faith; the pursuance of peace, the cause of others, if only for the cause's own sake.
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I agree that most people looked at this video with a mindset against the Olsteens as false preachers. Do we really think we are doing God a favor by being obedient, do we really think that does not care if we are happy or not? We need to stop judging people and be more concerned about our own walk with God and how we are pleasing Him with our lives. I do agree that when we are obedient it is not for God as if we are doing him a favor.
J
On that note, let us open our hymnals, stand and sing, "Praise All Ye Narcissistic Personality Disorder."
I once saw Joel Osteen interviewed with his wife. He said he doesn't like to talk about sin or hell, as it would just bum people out. (We probably wouldn't need a Bible, were it not for sin, and, if so, it would probably be a pamphlet!) His wife seemed to be aggressively in control in the couple dynamic, Joel, as if, intimidated. It was painful to watch, that and the utter spiritually dead discussion, where gospel truth and the kingdom of God were concerned. But there are also many money grubbing charlatans in the "ministry." It's quite fertile ground for con men and women, a lush cash cow, tax free.
I once saw Joel Osteen interviewed with his wife. He said he doesn't like to talk about sin or hell, as it would just bum people out. (We probably wouldn't need a Bible, were it not for sin, and, if so, it would probably be a pamphlet!) His wife seemed to be aggressively in control in the couple dynamic, Joel, as if, intimidated. It was painful to watch, that and the utter spiritually dead discussion, where gospel truth and the kingdom of God were concerned. But there are also many money grubbing charlatans in the "ministry." It's quite fertile ground for con men and women, a lush cash cow, tax free.
You are correct she never says that directly she says "do good for your own self". She also says "when we come to church and worship Him we are not really doing it for God we are doing it for ourself". The implication being for us not God ie. Putting ourself before God. Sure I go to church to learn but my main point for going to church is to Glorify God. We sing to Glorify God we learn to Glorify God. She says to do it for ourself .
One of the reasons God put the husband as head of the family was to model His characteristics toward us.
I loved my father (he passed away) , BUT I had a HEALTHY fear of him AND the punishment I'd recieve if I disobeyed, disrespected, or rebelled against him.
So while it is true Christians don't want any part of the punishment for our rebellion and sin, we love God and are indescribably thankful that He sent His Son, and His Son agreed to take the punishment we deserve. Perhaps if you understood this you too could accept His gift of Salvation and experience the gratefullness and love we do for God.
I loved my father (he passed away) , BUT I had a HEALTHY fear of him AND the punishment I'd recieve if I disobeyed, disrespected, or rebelled against him.
So while it is true Christians don't want any part of the punishment for our rebellion and sin, we love God and are indescribably thankful that He sent His Son, and His Son agreed to take the punishment we deserve. Perhaps if you understood this you too could accept His gift of Salvation and experience the gratefullness and love we do for God.
All that taken into account, your entire philosophy hinges on 'believe in Jesus and be saved from eternal torture'. You love God because if you don't love God he'll burn you for eternity. You're thankful because if you aren't thankful, he'll burn you for eternity. Boil it down and it almost always becomes about either salvation in an eternity in paradise or the avoidance of a damned eternity in hell.
Those are the ultimate motivations, and what you're saying is just tumefying that needlessly.
Those are the ultimate motivations, and what you're saying is just tumefying that needlessly.
Well, not really. I used to be what you might call a mainstream Christian, then I started asking logical questions and we know how mainstream Christians hate that. I know full well what your view is and how you like to present and package your motivations for faith, but the premise remains the same; you fear hell, and you'll do anything to avoid it.
That's not about God. That's about you.
That's not about God. That's about you.
R
I might of misread you here... but I greatly dislike pastors who tell you what you wanna hear because they do not want to offend anyone. It does everyone a disservice when you teach like that. No one can grow spiritually. I was shocked when I asked my old pastor if he thought sex before marriage was ok, just to see where his stance was because I was going to talk to the youth about marriage etc, and he said, its ok as long as you love one another. I was shocked! I honestly do not believe that he believes that, but simply said it to not offend me. There are so many consequences when we do not live according to God's will.
I was really taken aback by this video... I had suspected them for a while but never researched or dug into it too deep. She says to go out and do good for our own selves... She kinda has it backwards. Yes, we are selfish human beings, but how can you only live your life for yourself when you have found someone who loves you so much? Especially when you realize how much they love, you only fall in love more with them, in this case, I am talking about God's infinite love. Yes, we as humans tend to do things to please ourselves, but I believe that when it comes to our love for Christ, it extends beyond that. His spirit comes and lives in us and starts to change us. We start putting ourselves in uncomfortable situations to build his kingdom and reach out to the lost, not because we want to benefit ourselves, but because we love him. Not only that, but God includes us in the process because He loves us. He definitely does not need us but takes pleasure in allowing us to be a part of his plan.
So I disagree with her. We do not do good to make ourselves happy. This will eventually lead to disappointment. If you live like this, you will eventually find yourself empty. You will do good but you don't feel "happy" anymore, or you feel drained and empty inside. You are basically seeking for yourself and not others. But what really happens is when you are so in love with God, you do good for Him because He has filled you up with His love, so that you can go out and fill others with His love as well.
I was really taken aback by this video... I had suspected them for a while but never researched or dug into it too deep. She says to go out and do good for our own selves... She kinda has it backwards. Yes, we are selfish human beings, but how can you only live your life for yourself when you have found someone who loves you so much? Especially when you realize how much they love, you only fall in love more with them, in this case, I am talking about God's infinite love. Yes, we as humans tend to do things to please ourselves, but I believe that when it comes to our love for Christ, it extends beyond that. His spirit comes and lives in us and starts to change us. We start putting ourselves in uncomfortable situations to build his kingdom and reach out to the lost, not because we want to benefit ourselves, but because we love him. Not only that, but God includes us in the process because He loves us. He definitely does not need us but takes pleasure in allowing us to be a part of his plan.
So I disagree with her. We do not do good to make ourselves happy. This will eventually lead to disappointment. If you live like this, you will eventually find yourself empty. You will do good but you don't feel "happy" anymore, or you feel drained and empty inside. You are basically seeking for yourself and not others. But what really happens is when you are so in love with God, you do good for Him because He has filled you up with His love, so that you can go out and fill others with His love as well.