Virgin or young woman?

[JaimeMartinez26]

how can your vision be so clouded Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign;Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son.... how is it even a sign if its a young woman... someone cast a stumbling block before you dont be ashamed ask God for help

 

[JaimeMartinez26]

also my apoligies youre right i was rude in my delivery, heresy brings that out of me


God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

 

[JohnTalmid]

Are you referring the first five books of the Old Testament? There is much more to the Bible than the first five books of the Old Testament. I would consider the most important part of the Bible to be the first four books of the New Testament. Here is where Jesus Christ preaches.

To answer your quesiton, no, I'm not aware that the first five books of the Bible tell us about Mary, though I am not a Bible expert. I fail to see any significance in that. If the Bible says Mary was a virgin, she was a virgin.

Then you sadly don't see my point. That's okay. Why would the Septuagint translate Alimah, (maiden, etc) as Virgin? Answer: because the ones who translated Torah into Greek obeyed Elohim out of love. This is how it was eventually handed to you in your hand. All I'm saying is obey out of love and fear will no longer reign over us all.

 

[JohnTalmid]

also my apoligies youre right i was rude in my delivery, heresy brings that out of me


God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

There you go again. Love you but stop and think. Is this beneficial, necessary, true. Then if you want to walk on eggshells​ try to treat others how you want to be treated or spoken to. It's not heresy to test the word. It's smart.

 

[JohnTalmid]

how can your vision be so clouded Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign;Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son.... how is it even a sign if its a young woman... someone cast a stumbling block before you dont be ashamed ask God for help

That's Tanakh not Torah.

 

[JaimeMartinez26]

testing isnt trying to justify a claim that goes directly against the OT and NT on multiple accounts, you appear to be claiming Gods word is invalid... when you spout off whole pages of nonsence something you googled or saw on the history channel not using an ounce of truth or Gods word to back up your claims... i see how new a lot of these people are in understanding... your casting stumbling blocks for babes in Christ

 

[JohnTalmid]

Which one is a baby. I think we all are and I'm not saying Elohim's word is invalid shoot I'm posing a question about the renewed covenant brother. These people are trying just like you but you're the only one upset. I know you are young and I'm not yet rebuking you but calm down nobody's attacking you Jaime. Nobody's attacking your faith. I love your zeal to defend the word yet know what you defend. Shalom and I must get some rest. Shalom Jamie keep your intensity just not the brevity.

 

[JaimeMartinez26]

I dont know if you ARE a brother... maybe i should behave the same to someone who loves God as someone who doesn't trust him... but to say Marry wasn't a virgin means many scriptures are false... its not one word its prophecy and many verses in the NT and the fruit, the whole point of what youre trying to get across is that Jesus wasnt brought from divine intervention... this isnt trivial its very important.... i am upset but not with you personally... with the damage you could do to someone who didnt know better

 

[JaimeMartinez26]

i know origin names too like Yeshua, im saying Jesus for the newer people to understand.... my Father in heaven my tent peg reads my heart

 

[JohnTalmid]

I dont know if you ARE a brother... maybe i should behave the same to someone who loves God as someone who doesn't trust him... but to say Marry wasn't a virgin means many scriptures are false... its not one word its prophecy and many verses in the NT and the fruit, the whole point of what youre trying to get across is that Jesus wasnt brought from divine intervention... this isnt trivial its very important.... i am upset but not with you personally... with the damage you could do to someone who didnt know better

Now if you read my posts you would know I believe Mary was a virgin so you are either being deceptive or just don't care to understand what I have said. Hi I'm John and I call Messiah Yeshua and YHWH Elohim. So what I don't get on you for using Jesus. Food for thought if someone comes to you in the night and knocked on your door would you check to see who's there before answering it?

 

[JaimeMartinez26]

if you believe marry was a virgin... why pose this question when its against scripture... i didnt read all your posts john and you know what im sorry... i feel this kind of thing isnt helpful but hurtful....

 

[JaimeMartinez26]

For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil. (the reason i didnt read the book you posted when i have no questions on the matter and know without douby marry was indeed a virgin)

 

[JaimeMartinez26]

thats in romans

 

[JaimeMartinez26]

not saying youre evil but anything that conflicts with truth is

 

[JohnTalmid]

if you believe marry was a virgin... why pose this question when its against scripture... i didnt read all your posts john and you know what im sorry... i feel this kind of thing isnt helpful but hurtful....

Okay from the beginning.
Alimah means Maden, young woman, etc.
Virgin is a Greek concept not Hebrew.
Being that the translation of the Greek manuscript of the whole Tanakh,( not including the renewed covenant) translates Alimah as Virgin how did they come to this conclusion.

So with only Torah is it possible to reach the same conclusion on your own?

Yes if you obey the instruction of Torah out of love and by default keep the testimony of Messiah (by default because I keep the testimony of Yeshua).

Don't be afraid that this is hurtful, remember if you trust in Yeshua to be redeemed nothing can separate you from His love.

 

[prodigal]

we know Joseph was not the father,(from the bible) in Jewish custom if Mary was found to be pregnant whilst betrothed to be married then she could have been stoned to death, remember the woman caught in adultery. and thats without knowing greek or hebrew. Why complicate that which is simple.

 

[valiant]

For all the antisemitism I'm going to get... I can prove using only Torah she was a virgin even though it doesn't say virgin.

There was no word for virgin. Bethulah was not a virgin. The only word possible was 'a young unmarried woman of marriageable age' which was almah, who could be assumed to be a virgin when used by a prophet,,

 

[hornetguy]

There was no word in the Hebrew language for virgin. The concept of virginity was conveyed through "young maiden," or "young girl" if you will. This is why the Isaiah 7:14 is correctly translated as "young woman." In Matthew 1:23, the Holy Spirit through Matthew gives us an inspired explanation of the Isaiah text. Greek has a very deliberate word for virgin so the intent of Isaiah is more precisely represented. This is why when Matthew quotes from Isaiah 7:14 he uses the Greek word παρθένος meaning virgin. This is also why Isa 7:14 is translated as 'virgin' in the LXX.

Well put... as usual.

Good to "see" you again, OH....

 

[trofimus]

There was no word in the Hebrew language for virgin. The concept of virginity was conveyed through "young maiden," or "young girl" if you will. This is why the Isaiah 7:14 is correctly translated as "young woman."

You are probably correct that they had to use "young, umarried girl" word for the "virgin" meaning, old Hebrew had quite a small vocabulary compared to other languages.

But thats why the translation "young girl" in Is 7:14 is incorrect. Because it means virgin and we have a word for that. In our days and culture young girl is not automatically a virgin (well, almost never is).

Greek translated "virgin", Latin translated "virgin", English should translate "virgin", because it is the meaning there.

 

[trofimus]

Okay thank you for your question. By most original I mean as close to the original language which would be the Hebrew. Septuagint was translated by 70 elders most likely of the Mesoretic line ironically or at least closer than I used to think, (just a funny thought). I also believe that the Septuagint is the most accurate and Alimah was translated by the 70 correctly; my mistake and thank you JaumeJ for correcting me. I am speaking about the Hebrew not the Aramaic which I have in the Brit Hadesha, (renewed covenant)as well; very interesting but I digress. I'm ​interested in the first five books to answer your question trofimus in the most literal way.

The source texts I use are just the Hebrew and Hebrew English Tanakh, referring to the first five books only again.

I am not sure why have you restricted your Scripture to such a narrow library of 5 books.

Indeed you will have problems to prove many things with such a view.