Is being under the law for judgment the same as obeying the law? If we are under the law for judgment we are doomed to death. Yet putting ourselves under grace requires we listen to Christ, and Christ tells us to obey law. Christ says He is there with mercy anytime we fall, we are safe. You are not offering safety or goodness of the Lord with your talk of never listening to law. How can you say that is of God?
Walk of faith ...not for the self-righteous
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H
Christians listen to the commandments of Jesus, 1John 3:22,23
1: Believe on Jesus. Here our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5
2: love one another. Here we do not do ill to another, and should we slip up grace/forgiveness is offered, in love.
But, we see time and again the legalists here claiming that without obedience to the law then one is lost. It's a similar message to what was preached by the Pharisees under the law of sin and death, except that grace is mixed with it creating a lukewarm doctrine.
I've seen that the legalists come from 2 different doctrinal positions.
1: Perfect obedience to the law is required to enter into eternal life. This is supported in scripture under the law of sin and death.
OR
2: Some ambiguous, unspecified, level of obedience is required and this can vary depending on the individual. This has no support in scripture.
Neither of these 2 positions above that are held by legalists are supported under the gospel of grace.
1: Believe on Jesus. Here our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5
2: love one another. Here we do not do ill to another, and should we slip up grace/forgiveness is offered, in love.
But, we see time and again the legalists here claiming that without obedience to the law then one is lost. It's a similar message to what was preached by the Pharisees under the law of sin and death, except that grace is mixed with it creating a lukewarm doctrine.
I've seen that the legalists come from 2 different doctrinal positions.
1: Perfect obedience to the law is required to enter into eternal life. This is supported in scripture under the law of sin and death.
OR
2: Some ambiguous, unspecified, level of obedience is required and this can vary depending on the individual. This has no support in scripture.
Neither of these 2 positions above that are held by legalists are supported under the gospel of grace.
E
if future sin are not forgiven we are all doomed. Christ died once, he either applied his death to all our sin, or just our past sin, if he only applied it to our past sin, we are under law for our future sin, and we better get the sacrificial system started again, and start slaying innocent lambs. and pray like Hell god accpets our sacrifice., because without the shedding of blood, there can be no forgiveness. God is not going to return to earth to be sacrificed again for our future sin,
Eternally-gratefull, do you think there is FUTURE sin for these people?.... And what is the FALL AWAY?...
Hebrews 6:4 to 6....For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
If a man was taken to this level of God's salvation, there should be no sin in the man. Such a man has God's enlightment, tasted the heavenly gift, was made partaker of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come.... WOW!!!!
I know we would propably not agree on any of the detail of these points, but for me it is only a PERFECT man that will show these charactoristics. nd this is how God does these gifts..... James 1:17... Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Who here can say they have this or HAD these GODLY gifts?
I hope not one here HAD it and fell away. What will posess such a man to fall away? Because if this does happen that one fall away there is no more saving this one. He crucified Christ to himself AFRESH.... See EG, one can crucify Christ AFRESH but that will mean there will be no more salvation for you then,,,,
Hebrews 6:4 to 6....For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
If a man was taken to this level of God's salvation, there should be no sin in the man. Such a man has God's enlightment, tasted the heavenly gift, was made partaker of the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come.... WOW!!!!
I know we would propably not agree on any of the detail of these points, but for me it is only a PERFECT man that will show these charactoristics. nd this is how God does these gifts..... James 1:17... Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Who here can say they have this or HAD these GODLY gifts?
I hope not one here HAD it and fell away. What will posess such a man to fall away? Because if this does happen that one fall away there is no more saving this one. He crucified Christ to himself AFRESH.... See EG, one can crucify Christ AFRESH but that will mean there will be no more salvation for you then,,,,
E
cobus, I love ya bro. But I must ask. Do you understand what sin is? I am not talking about the ones everyon eknows. Like sexual sin, Stealing, Dishonoring parents etc. I am talking about true sin. things which we do not think of on a daily basis, yet which are just as offensive to God such as if it were not for the blood of Christ, we would be doomed.
I ask you this, because I cannot com[prehend how you can say one can be perfect and sinless. The only way I can fathom one even thinking this is they do not understand what the comprehenstion of sin really is, Just the well known things which people call siin.
Through faith in Jesus, we recieive salvation, by the Holy Spirit, we recieve santification, all is grace.
(sorry about my spelling)
I was just reading Romans about this last night, and Paul speaks so clearly to this.
He spoke also to abraham, before there was the law or comandments, for all was credited to him because of faith.
It troubles me that there is so much confusion on this, when it is clearly spoken to in scripture.
For it is not all about what we do, for such works cannot save us, it all about having faith in all we do, for this is what brings all given by God in Jesus to us.
Its not about faith alone...
But that we do all in faith, not because what we do saves us, but because when done in faith, it is credited to us, for it is God's grace that saves us, just in case what we do, is not what we should do.
God bless
pickles
(sorry about my spelling)
I was just reading Romans about this last night, and Paul speaks so clearly to this.
He spoke also to abraham, before there was the law or comandments, for all was credited to him because of faith.
It troubles me that there is so much confusion on this, when it is clearly spoken to in scripture.
For it is not all about what we do, for such works cannot save us, it all about having faith in all we do, for this is what brings all given by God in Jesus to us.
Its not about faith alone...
But that we do all in faith, not because what we do saves us, but because when done in faith, it is credited to us, for it is God's grace that saves us, just in case what we do, is not what we should do.
God bless
pickles
Romans 4
4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter?2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]
Genesis 15
15 After this, the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision:
“Do not be afraid, Abram.
I am your shield,[a]
your very great reward.[b]”
2 But Abram said, “Sovereign Lord, what can you give me since I remain childless and the one who will inherit[c] my estate is Eliezer of Damascus?” 3 And Abram said, “You have given me no children; so a servant in my household will be my heir.”
4 Then the word of the Lord came to him: “This man will not be your heir, but a son who is your own flesh and blood will be your heir.” 5 He took him outside and said, “Look up at the sky and count the stars—if indeed you can count them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring[d]be.”
6 Abram believed the Lord, and He credited it to him as righteousness.
No where in that passage can anyone point to ANY works that Abraham did to be declared righteous. There are zero,zip,nada works involved with it AT ALL.
God told Abram that he would have an heir of his own flesh and blood.
Abram BELIEVED God and God declared Abram righteous BY FAITH.
Cobus said, "If a man was taken to this level of God's salvation, there should be no sin in the man."
Therefore, if a person reached the point of being sinless, it would be impossible for him/her to fall away...So Paul says "IF" this were to happen, "IF" is referring to a hypothetical. Paul (the writer could be Paul and I'm assuming it is) is not saying of a person has been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, and were made a partaker in the Holy Spirit can fall away, Paul is saying it's impossible.
For this scripture to mean what you say it does, Paul would have to had rephrase this passage to say "it is IMPOSSIBLE that a person who has received these gifts, and falls away, to renew them....
Verse 1 and 2 of Hebrews supports what I said, once we genuinely laid our sins before the cross, there is no need lay it there again, why, because it's a done deal, "not laying the foundation of repentance to dead works..." We are to move beyond that now and focus on the things that sanctify us internally.
I will say this passage is hard to understand, which why we must interpret it with the whole bible. For 1 John 1:9 states, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." And only unforgivable is an ongoing rejection of Christ Jesus and the work of the Holy Spirit, Mark 3:28-29, "28 I assure you: People will be forgiven for all sins[a] and whatever blasphemies they may blaspheme. 29 But whoever blasphemesagainst the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”
Therefore, if a person reached the point of being sinless, it would be impossible for him/her to fall away...So Paul says "IF" this were to happen, "IF" is referring to a hypothetical. Paul (the writer could be Paul and I'm assuming it is) is not saying of a person has been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, and were made a partaker in the Holy Spirit can fall away, Paul is saying it's impossible.
For this scripture to mean what you say it does, Paul would have to had rephrase this passage to say "it is IMPOSSIBLE that a person who has received these gifts, and falls away, to renew them....
Verse 1 and 2 of Hebrews supports what I said, once we genuinely laid our sins before the cross, there is no need lay it there again, why, because it's a done deal, "not laying the foundation of repentance to dead works..." We are to move beyond that now and focus on the things that sanctify us internally.
I will say this passage is hard to understand, which why we must interpret it with the whole bible. For 1 John 1:9 states, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." And only unforgivable is an ongoing rejection of Christ Jesus and the work of the Holy Spirit, Mark 3:28-29, "28 I assure you: People will be forgiven for all sins[a] and whatever blasphemies they may blaspheme. 29 But whoever blasphemesagainst the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”
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find any post where any christian has said any scripture in our canon is not from God.
Titus 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
perhaps you've established a "ministry" for yourself that's a waste of your time (and the time of others who have to read your endless and baseless accusations) since all true christians believe all scripture is from God.
find any posts where anyone has been foolish enough to suggest Paul or Christ changed God. what an immature remark.
find any posts where christians have said Paul and Christ so changed God, we are to discern which scriptures we may disregard. (presumably meaning that ccers have decided Paul or Christ changed God, and that some scriptures are not from God, therefore ought to be disregarded as not from God).
disregard (websters): : to pay no attention to : treat as unworthy of regard or notice
you have a lot of nerve, woman. and you're fearless about making things up.
here's where it gets downright weird.
Christ replaced scripture? with what? what did he do with it? which scriptures did he replace? how do we learn from something that presumably isn't there since it has been replaced?
you said
then you say ccers believe Christ changed God (?) and so some scripture is not from God. ironic, since you're the one making such an outrageous claim.
???
this is just foolishness.
this has been reported, incidentally.
you need to back up this accusation (one of countless you make daily it seems) against many here (conveniently un-named persons) with PROOF. where's the posts with ccers saying all jews but Christ are condemned to hell?? where. get them.
no scripture has been replaced. what are you on?
find any posts where anyone has said all scripture is,
not from God
has been replaced
we are not to learn from
where are all these sayings by people? where?
you're the one claiming Christ replaced some scripture. whatever you mean by that is beyond my comprehension. is there somewhere written Jesus saying, peter, replace these scriptures?
where are the posts saying you are going to hell because you stand up for scripture? what silly person would said "redtent, you're going to hell because you stand up for scripture"?
where are the (many/often) posts telling you you're going to hell?
and this means the OP is involved in a conspiracy of ccers to assert that Paul and Christ so changed God, and we are to discern which scriptures we may disregard, Christ replaced scripture, All Jews but Christ are condemned to hell, and so are you?
is that what you are accusing the OP of? i'm going to pray for you, since i believe you are mentally unwell.
at the same time, accusations like the ones you've made here and elsewhere should and will be reported. they're lies and just plain weird.
Titus 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
perhaps you've established a "ministry" for yourself that's a waste of your time (and the time of others who have to read your endless and baseless accusations) since all true christians believe all scripture is from God.
find any posts where anyone has been foolish enough to suggest Paul or Christ changed God. what an immature remark.
find any posts where christians have said Paul and Christ so changed God, we are to discern which scriptures we may disregard. (presumably meaning that ccers have decided Paul or Christ changed God, and that some scriptures are not from God, therefore ought to be disregarded as not from God).
disregard (websters): : to pay no attention to : treat as unworthy of regard or notice
you have a lot of nerve, woman. and you're fearless about making things up.
here's where it gets downright weird.
Christ replaced scripture? with what? what did he do with it? which scriptures did he replace? how do we learn from something that presumably isn't there since it has been replaced?
you said
then you say ccers believe Christ changed God (?) and so some scripture is not from God. ironic, since you're the one making such an outrageous claim.
???
this is just foolishness.
this has been reported, incidentally.
you need to back up this accusation (one of countless you make daily it seems) against many here (conveniently un-named persons) with PROOF. where's the posts with ccers saying all jews but Christ are condemned to hell?? where. get them.
no scripture has been replaced. what are you on?
find any posts where anyone has said all scripture is,
not from God
has been replaced
we are not to learn from
where are all these sayings by people? where?
you're the one claiming Christ replaced some scripture. whatever you mean by that is beyond my comprehension. is there somewhere written Jesus saying, peter, replace these scriptures?
where are the posts saying you are going to hell because you stand up for scripture? what silly person would said "redtent, you're going to hell because you stand up for scripture"?
where are the (many/often) posts telling you you're going to hell?
and this means the OP is involved in a conspiracy of ccers to assert that Paul and Christ so changed God, and we are to discern which scriptures we may disregard, Christ replaced scripture, All Jews but Christ are condemned to hell, and so are you?
is that what you are accusing the OP of? i'm going to pray for you, since i believe you are mentally unwell.
at the same time, accusations like the ones you've made here and elsewhere should and will be reported. they're lies and just plain weird.
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here's the apparently offensive post, which is a "cover-up" for all the accusations made by the poster challenged above.
ALL scripture, with the exception of this "Those preaching law righteousness get to escape the hardships and persecution of those whose walk is by faith thru grace."
does that comment equate to saying all jews are condemned to hell and Christ replaced scripture, and some scripture is not from God?
i must take some tea and laugh now.
ALL scripture, with the exception of this "Those preaching law righteousness get to escape the hardships and persecution of those whose walk is by faith thru grace."
does that comment equate to saying all jews are condemned to hell and Christ replaced scripture, and some scripture is not from God?
i must take some tea and laugh now.
1 Kings 3
7 And now, O Lord my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in.
8 And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude.
9 Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?
10 And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.
11 And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;
12 Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.
is this scripture about you redtent?
was solomon a gentile?
7 And now, O Lord my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in.
8 And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude.
9 Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?
10 And the speech pleased the Lord, that Solomon had asked this thing.
11 And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;
12 Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.
is this scripture about you redtent?
was solomon a gentile?
Oh do I know what sin is....ABSOLUTELY! Let me share one of these sins you talk about and How God and I delt with it OK.
I went to a Bible study group in a village called Wildernes here in South Africa. The people there and the two of us that came from George were on two COMPLETE different busses. WE had almst NO agreements on the natters of God. Very much like here on CC I suppose. But EG you and I have more in common that the members of that Bible Study group.
Any way we had a study that Thursday evening again and it would have been about the fith week we woul have attended in a row. But earlier that day, this happened. My nieghbour here at the cmplex of industrial premesis and I were haveng a chat, standing next to out motor vehicles just outside our factories. A man came walking up to us and asked if we have any jobs avaiable, and he had his CV with him. We said no and he asked if we have any donation for him as he did not have a job in three months. I had the sudden call to say YES, but my neighbour said no, and went on with our discussion. I also said NO but immediately knew I was WRONG! Yet it was not strong so I though I imagine being reproofed by God that I am NOT LISTENING.
Well so the man left but my mind was now busier than it should be. After about a minute I said tothe neighbour (Deon) that I have to go. I got in my car and I know I must give that man R100. NOt much but that is how God works with me. He tells me not only when to give to whom but also how much. I hve this gift that God MOVES me and tells me how much to give and also when to say NO. Thi time was the first time I did not DO AS GOD SAID. God said YES and R100, but I said NO!
So i got in my car but the man was GONE. Amsing I could not find him but he was gone. Oh I felt bad and prayed to God. Lord PLEASE I am so sorry I did not OBEY you. Please let me get the man. But I did not.
That evening at the Bible Study they wanted us to watch a dvd of some American preacher about the crowns in heaven for the saints. This man SCOFFED and ig really hurt me that he can JOKE about the gifts in the manner he did. He pretended that one man came into heaven and their were two interlink trucks full of Gold for one man... Everybody in the study laughed but me. my friend from Geaorge did not make it for this evening. And then this preacher on the DVD pretended another man came in and God started to look for this man's crown and God found the SPECKLE of Gold almost just a speck. Now the people were laughing out their wits. I burst into tears being now FULLY reproofed by the Holy Spirit of my lack of obedience.
I wanted to confess to them, but they will not understand as it was proven later. I got up and just left, and went home. Then next day i got a call of the house owner, and I told him why I cried and why I did not find that preacher funny at all. but rather I found him disgusting and repusive. NOTHING is a laughing matter in the Bible. NOTHING.
That is when he told me... Cobus you are too sencitive. And I knew then EXACTLY why all these things happen. Well God gave me a secnd chance with the man, and when I met him again I gave him what God told me too... the money and the blessing that he will be in a job on that same day. AND ALL THIS DID HAPPEN .. the man got the job that day. And I learned about sin like NEVER before. The sin of not doing GOOD when God tells you too.
And that made me even realize more just HOW GOOD GOD RECREATES A MAN IN HIMSELF.... A Perfect man EG. ONLY God can do this and HE STILL DOES IT TODAY.
EG I am not perfect....YET! But i have to give God the acknowledgement that HE DID START and I SEE the difference. I can SEE how God change me. EG God does not remove some sin from us. HE REMOVES ALL sin from us. ALL even the ones we did not know, HE KNOWS and HE ENLIGHTENS... AND HE REMOVES.... EG HE PERFECTS us to do ALL GOOD WORKS, and NO BAD ONES.... NONE! That is how amazing His grace and faith is. AMAZING!
EG if there is one thing in me that is already perfect, it is God's Love to my neighbours. Oh EG I thrived on conflict and underhand things. but now the LOVE for self and neighbour just HATES the old ways. EG I hate conflict and strife. And I cannot even argue about the Bible as I used too. I think you picked it up. I think you know Cobus changed even more in the image of His Lord. God is at work on us and He will complete us. You say AFTER this life, I say IN THIS LIFE. Because there is just too many verses that confirms this state God brings us to here on earth.
My friend thank you for the years of friendship, I ALWAYS enjoy your company. Love you too EG, and that will see us through... Cobus.
I went to a Bible study group in a village called Wildernes here in South Africa. The people there and the two of us that came from George were on two COMPLETE different busses. WE had almst NO agreements on the natters of God. Very much like here on CC I suppose. But EG you and I have more in common that the members of that Bible Study group.
Any way we had a study that Thursday evening again and it would have been about the fith week we woul have attended in a row. But earlier that day, this happened. My nieghbour here at the cmplex of industrial premesis and I were haveng a chat, standing next to out motor vehicles just outside our factories. A man came walking up to us and asked if we have any jobs avaiable, and he had his CV with him. We said no and he asked if we have any donation for him as he did not have a job in three months. I had the sudden call to say YES, but my neighbour said no, and went on with our discussion. I also said NO but immediately knew I was WRONG! Yet it was not strong so I though I imagine being reproofed by God that I am NOT LISTENING.
Well so the man left but my mind was now busier than it should be. After about a minute I said tothe neighbour (Deon) that I have to go. I got in my car and I know I must give that man R100. NOt much but that is how God works with me. He tells me not only when to give to whom but also how much. I hve this gift that God MOVES me and tells me how much to give and also when to say NO. Thi time was the first time I did not DO AS GOD SAID. God said YES and R100, but I said NO!
So i got in my car but the man was GONE. Amsing I could not find him but he was gone. Oh I felt bad and prayed to God. Lord PLEASE I am so sorry I did not OBEY you. Please let me get the man. But I did not.
That evening at the Bible Study they wanted us to watch a dvd of some American preacher about the crowns in heaven for the saints. This man SCOFFED and ig really hurt me that he can JOKE about the gifts in the manner he did. He pretended that one man came into heaven and their were two interlink trucks full of Gold for one man... Everybody in the study laughed but me. my friend from Geaorge did not make it for this evening. And then this preacher on the DVD pretended another man came in and God started to look for this man's crown and God found the SPECKLE of Gold almost just a speck. Now the people were laughing out their wits. I burst into tears being now FULLY reproofed by the Holy Spirit of my lack of obedience.
I wanted to confess to them, but they will not understand as it was proven later. I got up and just left, and went home. Then next day i got a call of the house owner, and I told him why I cried and why I did not find that preacher funny at all. but rather I found him disgusting and repusive. NOTHING is a laughing matter in the Bible. NOTHING.
That is when he told me... Cobus you are too sencitive. And I knew then EXACTLY why all these things happen. Well God gave me a secnd chance with the man, and when I met him again I gave him what God told me too... the money and the blessing that he will be in a job on that same day. AND ALL THIS DID HAPPEN .. the man got the job that day. And I learned about sin like NEVER before. The sin of not doing GOOD when God tells you too.
And that made me even realize more just HOW GOOD GOD RECREATES A MAN IN HIMSELF.... A Perfect man EG. ONLY God can do this and HE STILL DOES IT TODAY.
EG I am not perfect....YET! But i have to give God the acknowledgement that HE DID START and I SEE the difference. I can SEE how God change me. EG God does not remove some sin from us. HE REMOVES ALL sin from us. ALL even the ones we did not know, HE KNOWS and HE ENLIGHTENS... AND HE REMOVES.... EG HE PERFECTS us to do ALL GOOD WORKS, and NO BAD ONES.... NONE! That is how amazing His grace and faith is. AMAZING!
EG if there is one thing in me that is already perfect, it is God's Love to my neighbours. Oh EG I thrived on conflict and underhand things. but now the LOVE for self and neighbour just HATES the old ways. EG I hate conflict and strife. And I cannot even argue about the Bible as I used too. I think you picked it up. I think you know Cobus changed even more in the image of His Lord. God is at work on us and He will complete us. You say AFTER this life, I say IN THIS LIFE. Because there is just too many verses that confirms this state God brings us to here on earth.
My friend thank you for the years of friendship, I ALWAYS enjoy your company. Love you too EG, and that will see us through... Cobus.
Following the law legalistically has no spiritual power, but Crossnote!! You are taking that way over the line. The words of scripture has power, tremendous power, yet your teachings says that if it is words of law those words have no power in them. Like Christ told the demons when they tempted him "it also says".
Words have power! Holy Spirit has power! Our triune God has tremendous power! We must honor ALL of God.
Words have power! Holy Spirit has power! Our triune God has tremendous power! We must honor ALL of God.
Bookends, when a person was ENLIGHTENED, there is NO MORE FOCUS TO BE SANCTIFIED... Enlightened comes AFTER sanctification. Enlightment and Holy Spirit participation comes with GLORIFICATION... Glorification is the ENLIGHTMENT, EMPOWERMENT and HOLY SPIRIT FILLING STEP. ALL THREE AT ONCE!
Bookie you really do not know what happens when God FILLS a person with His Holy Spirit do you. Do you know that the moment God fills a person with the Holy SPirit that person is GLORIFIED by God to be a PERFECT HOLY MAN OF GOD? The moment God PUTS HIS SEED in a man that man is made GODLY. That man is made JESUS-LIKE! That means to the SAME LEVEL OF HOLINESS OF JESUS THE MAN. THE SAME LEVEL OF PERFECTION AS JESUS THE MAN, and the same STATURE AND FULNESS OF GLORY THAT JESUS HAD AS MAN. Absolute heavenly glory!
Let me show you.... In Scripture. Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Bookie who showed us what a GODLY life is here on earth? And does God not say that the righteous is as righteous as HE IS RIGHTEOUS... is Righteous not sinless? One sin makes a man UNRIGHTEOUS! Just one. If you dount this ask ADAM and EVE.
And Bookie I have to admit you are a master twister of the Word. You are GOOD!
I will show you what PAul said and then you can read it again to simplify it for you just take away for a moment the points between the commas. This is the sentense without the detail of the people that were HIGH up the ladder to salvation complete. Very easy to see that these people that did experience these GODLY things, IF they fall away they CANNOT be saved again, and they put GOD TO SHAME IF THEY FALL!
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Bookie you really do not know what happens when God FILLS a person with His Holy Spirit do you. Do you know that the moment God fills a person with the Holy SPirit that person is GLORIFIED by God to be a PERFECT HOLY MAN OF GOD? The moment God PUTS HIS SEED in a man that man is made GODLY. That man is made JESUS-LIKE! That means to the SAME LEVEL OF HOLINESS OF JESUS THE MAN. THE SAME LEVEL OF PERFECTION AS JESUS THE MAN, and the same STATURE AND FULNESS OF GLORY THAT JESUS HAD AS MAN. Absolute heavenly glory!
Let me show you.... In Scripture. Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Bookie who showed us what a GODLY life is here on earth? And does God not say that the righteous is as righteous as HE IS RIGHTEOUS... is Righteous not sinless? One sin makes a man UNRIGHTEOUS! Just one. If you dount this ask ADAM and EVE.
And Bookie I have to admit you are a master twister of the Word. You are GOOD!
I will show you what PAul said and then you can read it again to simplify it for you just take away for a moment the points between the commas. This is the sentense without the detail of the people that were HIGH up the ladder to salvation complete. Very easy to see that these people that did experience these GODLY things, IF they fall away they CANNOT be saved again, and they put GOD TO SHAME IF THEY FALL!
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
We are talking about the truths scripture talks of, why are we changing that to ways truth can be turned around?
Usually, the reason a human person enjoys pointing fingers and blaming for evil instead of pointing out what is good is that they are feeling guilty, so by judging others they don't feel so bad about themselves. Perhaps you could phrase this in another way so you don't set yourself up as a judge of others, but only a direction toward how to obey correctly.
Usually, the reason a human person enjoys pointing fingers and blaming for evil instead of pointing out what is good is that they are feeling guilty, so by judging others they don't feel so bad about themselves. Perhaps you could phrase this in another way so you don't set yourself up as a judge of others, but only a direction toward how to obey correctly.
E
yes, words have power.
The law condemns, Cursed is everyone who does not follow all words.
The law is our schoolmaster, to lead us to Christ, but after it has done its job, we are no longer need a schoolmaster.
The law was given for the soul purpose to lead people to God. the ceremonies, the traditions, the symbolic things all pointed the Christ.
The commandments were given to prove we can not live up to the standard given by God. and placed us in a position we needed the sacrifices in the first place.
Taken together.
The commands prove we are cursed. And condemned based on this judgment
The symbols, ceremonies and traditions lead us to Christ by showing how he overcame the judgment and condemnation, and fulfilled all aspect of the law (not only these, but the commands also)
so once a person comes to Christ, why do they have to contually be led to know they need Christ because they are still sinful? do they keep forgetting why they came to Christ in the first place? if they have, I would question if they truly came to him at all. A point Paul continually makes in all his epistles.
The law condemns, Cursed is everyone who does not follow all words.
The law is our schoolmaster, to lead us to Christ, but after it has done its job, we are no longer need a schoolmaster.
The law was given for the soul purpose to lead people to God. the ceremonies, the traditions, the symbolic things all pointed the Christ.
The commandments were given to prove we can not live up to the standard given by God. and placed us in a position we needed the sacrifices in the first place.
Taken together.
The commands prove we are cursed. And condemned based on this judgment
The symbols, ceremonies and traditions lead us to Christ by showing how he overcame the judgment and condemnation, and fulfilled all aspect of the law (not only these, but the commands also)
so once a person comes to Christ, why do they have to contually be led to know they need Christ because they are still sinful? do they keep forgetting why they came to Christ in the first place? if they have, I would question if they truly came to him at all. A point Paul continually makes in all his epistles.
You poor guys!! Cursed is everyone who looks to the law to save, is under the law for salvation, but blessed is he who is saved by Christ, you forgot that part.
Christ even went a step further, Christ said if you love me you will keep my commandment, and I love Christ.
If we use the law to lead us to Christ, no we don't need to be lead there any longer after we arrive at the feet of Christ. The law doesn't need to be used for that purpose any longer. Just like law is given to us in scripture, we are given many useful things that we use for many things. A car, soap, dishes, material things that has many uses but we don't throw them away after we use them for one thing. These are material things. Law is a spiritual truth we are given, to be used for many things.
When you blind yourselves to scripture then you can say "the sole purpose of scripture is----" That is only for blind men. Scripture has many purposes, we are to take advantage of ALL of them.
You are not led to Christ only because you are sinful, surely. Christ is your help in trouble, Christ is your salvation, Christ is many things. You should meet Christ.
And here you get personal, again, when we are asked not to by Christ. Why do you insist on judging!! Even to the point of personally judging for God about if I am going to hell or not! Have you read the instructions Christ gives when we are told how to pray? Do read it. It is your job to judge if something is scripture or not, if you insist on being God for me personally, then God says it takes your very life if you insist on that privilege.
Christ even went a step further, Christ said if you love me you will keep my commandment, and I love Christ.
If we use the law to lead us to Christ, no we don't need to be lead there any longer after we arrive at the feet of Christ. The law doesn't need to be used for that purpose any longer. Just like law is given to us in scripture, we are given many useful things that we use for many things. A car, soap, dishes, material things that has many uses but we don't throw them away after we use them for one thing. These are material things. Law is a spiritual truth we are given, to be used for many things.
When you blind yourselves to scripture then you can say "the sole purpose of scripture is----" That is only for blind men. Scripture has many purposes, we are to take advantage of ALL of them.
You are not led to Christ only because you are sinful, surely. Christ is your help in trouble, Christ is your salvation, Christ is many things. You should meet Christ.
And here you get personal, again, when we are asked not to by Christ. Why do you insist on judging!! Even to the point of personally judging for God about if I am going to hell or not! Have you read the instructions Christ gives when we are told how to pray? Do read it. It is your job to judge if something is scripture or not, if you insist on being God for me personally, then God says it takes your very life if you insist on that privilege.
E
Yet you continue to misrepresent what we say. Don;t you ever get sick of this?
I showed you what the purpose of the law is, how does this say you are not saved..
I do too.
He has many commands, The commands of the law were before and after the law. So why do you not look at his commands, and not the law, which is not even a copmplete list of his commands? when you do not need to
You are not getting it.
Can you use soap to drive a car.
Can you use your car to take a shower?
Would you use a math book to teach you english?
Using something for what it was not designed to do is not going to do anything. It is useless.
The law was given to lead us to Christ, that was its purpose. To try to use it for ANYTHING else is like using a math book to teach you english, It is worthless.
This is what Paul kept trying to show you. But you are not listening to him.
I am not talking about scripture. I am talking about the law. Many things were given which do not pertain to us today. Because their purpose has been fulfilled. Does that make the rest of scripture obsolite?
I have met Christ, I do however, wonder if you have.
I have read my post over and over, I see nothing of this sort.
I did not judge you
I did not judge anyone
I stated my opinion of a subject, If you felt judged, I can not help you.
I showed you what the purpose of the law is, how does this say you are not saved..
I do too.
He has many commands, The commands of the law were before and after the law. So why do you not look at his commands, and not the law, which is not even a copmplete list of his commands? when you do not need to
You are not getting it.
Can you use soap to drive a car.
Can you use your car to take a shower?
Would you use a math book to teach you english?
Using something for what it was not designed to do is not going to do anything. It is useless.
The law was given to lead us to Christ, that was its purpose. To try to use it for ANYTHING else is like using a math book to teach you english, It is worthless.
This is what Paul kept trying to show you. But you are not listening to him.
I am not talking about scripture. I am talking about the law. Many things were given which do not pertain to us today. Because their purpose has been fulfilled. Does that make the rest of scripture obsolite?
I have met Christ, I do however, wonder if you have.
I have read my post over and over, I see nothing of this sort.
I did not judge you
I did not judge anyone
I stated my opinion of a subject, If you felt judged, I can not help you.