We establish the Law...but how?

[Skinski7]

The Skinski's Six Steps to Salvation

1. yield to God from the heart
2. repent
3. forsake sin through godly sorrow
4. seek a cleansing
5. cease rebellion
6. only then will God regenerate/indwell the believer.

No.

My steps are this...

1. Seek God diligently.
2. Godly Sorrow
works
3. Repentance (change of mind)
(2) and (3) result in a forsaking of wickedness and a yielding to God from the heart (ie. conversion) and thus...
4. Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


In other words I believe this...

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
The word for "clear" in the Greek means pure. Paul says that because there has been a turning from sin in the heart. That is why godly sorrow works a real change of mind in regards to sin, righteousness and judgement and therefore produces obedience to God.I believe this...

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

1. Repentance.
2. Conversion.
3. Forgiveness and Regeneration.

I believe this...

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1. Repentance/Heart Circumcision (mind change which effects a turning away from sin)
2. Faith (ie. trusting and yielding to God)
3. Being energised/quickened by the power of God and having our sins forgiven.

So please don't make things up crossnote. One cannot yield to God before they repent as there has been no mind change to effect any kind of yielding. Yielding to God is the RESULT of repentance. Sin is forsaken through godly sorrow and repentance and it is essential because one cannot yield to God and rebel at the same time. This is why James would write...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

See how James connects "laying apart ALL filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness" with "receiving the engrafted word with meekness" ?

James knew very well that a simple profession from the mouth whilst remaining disobedience is the devils faith. That is why he connected faith with works because James knew that faith IS a work.

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

 

[crossnote]

No.

My steps are this...

1. Seek God diligently.
2. Godly Sorrow
works
3. Repentance (change of mind)
(2) and (3) result in a forsaking of wickedness and a yielding to God from the heart (ie. conversion) and thus...
4. Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


In other words I believe this...

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
The word for "clear" in the Greek means pure. Paul says that because there has been a turning from sin in the heart. That is why godly sorrow works a real change of mind in regards to sin, righteousness and judgement and therefore produces obedience to God.I believe this...

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

1. Repentance.
2. Conversion.
3. Forgiveness and Regeneration.

I believe this...

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1. Repentance/Heart Circumcision (mind change which effects a turning away from sin)
2. Faith (ie. trusting and yielding to God)
3. Being energised/quickened by the power of God and having our sins forgiven.

So please don't make things up crossnote. One cannot yield to God before they repent as there has been no mind change to effect any kind of yielding. Yielding to God is the RESULT of repentance. Sin is forsaken through godly sorrow and repentance and it is essential because one cannot yield to God and rebel at the same time. This is why James would write...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

See how James connects "laying apart ALL filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness" with "receiving the engrafted word with meekness" ?

James knew very well that a simple profession from the mouth whilst remaining disobedience is the devils faith. That is why he connected faith with works because James knew that faith IS a work.

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
(Gal 3:2)

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(Rom 4:4-5)

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(Joh 7:37-38)

Come to Jesus, just as you are and partake of LIFE.

 

[Skinski7]

Here is what David wrote...

Psa 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

"in whose spirit there is no guile"

You rarely hear anyone quote that part because it contradicts the "saved in sins" false Gospel. Paul quotes David in Romans 4 and the false teachers just love that quote because they can twist Paul's writings in supporting the notion that God forgives people whilst they are still in rebellion. So long as all the church members, who are under these wolves, don't investigate the context the lie continues unopposed.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Abraham's FAITH was counted as righteousness. What kind of faith was that?

This kind...

Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

A faith which has a walk. The false teachers don't quote verse 12 because it contradicts the "faith alone" in the "finished work of the cross" lie they are trying to peddle.

Abraham had a faith that obeyed...

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

The false teachers will never connect Heb 11:8 with Rom 4:6. They won't connect it because they deceitfully twist Paul's writings to teach the error of the wicked...

Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

They twist Paul unto their own destruction.

What was the context of Peters warning? Well he said this...

2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

"What manner of persons ought we be in ALL manner of conduct and godliness?"

"Therefore be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless."

The wolves will never preach that because they are too busy defending sin.

Jude gave this warning...

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

These ungodly men twist grace into a license to sin because they present grace as a sin cloak and then teach "sin you will and sin you must" and therefore the MANY who swallow Satan's lie keep on sinning while they "trust in Jesus." The blind leading the blind.

Paul wrote this and take note that he is not contending for "sin you will and sin you must"....

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

 

[crossnote]

Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Yours to figure out Skinski, I already know the answer.

 

[Skinski7]

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
(Gal 3:2)

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(Rom 4:4-5)

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(Joh 7:37-38)

Come to Jesus, just as you are and partake of LIFE.

What kind of faith Crossnote? Snipping passages out of context is what Satan did when he tempted Jesus. You are following Satan's example.

You quote Gal 3:2 where Paul is contending that salvation is via the Spirit and not the works of the law. I agree with that. We are to abide in the Spirit of the life of Jesus Christ. In fact Paul wrote this...

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

It is not the deeds of the law which save, rather it is a faith that works by love wrought via abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. The Galatians were turning back to things like circumcision and thought those kind of things would make them more righteous when the deeds of the law have nothing to do with it. Love fulfills the law.

It is in the Spirit we have liberty because we no longer need the letter to restrain us, we are restrained by the Spirit.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.


You quote Rom 4:4-5 where Paul teaches that it is FAITH that God reckons as righteousness. Yet you don't quote the verses that define that faith do you? Why not? You don't quote them because they refute your positional salvation nonsense. In Rom 4:12 it says this...

Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

You see faith is also reckoned to those WHO WALK IN THE STEPS OF THAT FAITH OF OUR FATHER ABRAHAM. That one verse refutes "faith alone in the provision of the finished work of the cross." Why does it refute it? Because it connects faith to FAITHFULNESS or YIELDING TO GOD FROM THE HEART.

There is no disobedience in faith. Faith is the opposite of disobedience. That is why Paul warned...

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

God cuts off the disobedient. The word "unbelief" in the Greek means "faithlessness" and "disobedience."

The entire Bible is in harmony in all these things. That is why I can easily show the context of what you quote out of context.

You quote Joh 7:37-38 about how we can come to Jesus. Amen to that. Yet we come to Jesus in repentance, we don't come in rebellion. Jesus preached repent and believe. Jesus used Nineveh as an example of repentance and in Nineveh they forsook their wickedness. They did not approach God still in rebellion, rather they put on sack cloth and ashes and proclaimed a fast and begged for mercy. Nineveh did this...

Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

They humbled themselves.

 

[Skinski7]

Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Yours to figure out Skinski, I already know the answer.

Yes God justifieth the ungodly in the sense that those who repent have sin to their account. We are all guilty and therefore God justifies the guilty. Yet in Romans 4 Paul connects the FAITH which God reckons as righteousness to a WALK. You ignore that connection by ignoring that verse. You also ignore Rom 3:31 even though it is meant to be the theme of this entire thread. The faith that God reckons as righteousness establishes the law. Not through some "trust in a provision" like you think, rather via "faith that works by love because love works no ill." We love God with all our heart, soul, and mind and love our neighbour as ourselves. Those are the greatest of all the commandments, commandments which those who deny purity of heart claim they cannot obey.

The individual who WALKS in the steps of faith no longer has guile in their spirit because they have forsaken their rebellion. Faith has purified their heart.

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

[crossnote]

What kind of faith Crossnote? Snipping passages out of context is what Satan did when he tempted Jesus. You are following Satan's example.

You quote Gal 3:2 where Paul is contending that salvation is via the Spirit and not the works of the law. I agree with that. We are to abide in the Spirit of the life of Jesus Christ. In fact Paul wrote this...

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

It is not the deeds of the law which save, rather it is a faith that works by love wrought via abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. The Galatians were turning back to things like circumcision and thought those kind of things would make them more righteous when the deeds of the law have nothing to do with it. Love fulfills the law.

It is in the Spirit we have liberty because we no longer need the letter to restrain us, we are restrained by the Spirit.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.


You quote Rom 4:4-5 where Paul teaches that it is FAITH that God reckons as righteousness. Yet you don't quote the verses that define that faith do you? Why not? You don't quote them because they refute your positional salvation nonsense. In Rom 4:12 it says this...

Rom 4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

You see faith is also reckoned to those WHO WALK IN THE STEPS OF THAT FAITH OF OUR FATHER ABRAHAM. That one verse refutes "faith alone in the provision of the finished work of the cross." Why does it refute it? Because it connects faith to FAITHFULNESS or YIELDING TO GOD FROM THE HEART.

There is no disobedience in faith. Faith is the opposite of disobedience. That is why Paul warned...

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

God cuts off the disobedient. The word "unbelief" in the Greek means "faithlessness" and "disobedience."

The entire Bible is in harmony in all these things. That is why I can easily show the context of what you quote out of context.

You quote Joh 7:37-38 about how we can come to Jesus. Amen to that. Yet we come to Jesus in repentance, we don't come in rebellion. Jesus preached repent and believe. Jesus used Nineveh as an example of repentance and in Nineveh they forsook their wickedness. They did not approach God still in rebellion, rather they put on sack cloth and ashes and proclaimed a fast and begged for mercy. Nineveh did this...

Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

They humbled themselves.

Actually I was following your example...look at all the ones you snip.

 

[crossnote]

Yes God justifieth the ungodly in the sense that those who repent have sin to their account. We are all guilty and therefore God justifies the guilty. Yet in Romans 4 Paul connects the FAITH which God reckons as righteousness to a WALK. You ignore that connection by ignoring that verse. You also ignore Rom 3:31 even though it is meant to be the theme of this entire thread. The faith that God reckons as righteousness establishes the law. Not through some "trust in a provision" like you think, rather via "faith that works by love because love works no ill." We love God with all our heart, soul, and mind and love our neighbour as ourselves. Those are the greatest of all the commandments, commandments which those who deny purity of heart claim they cannot obey.

The individual who WALKS in the steps of faith no longer has guile in their spirit because they have forsaken their rebellion. Faith has purified their heart.

I wasn't ignoring Rom 3:31. I just gave up harping on sticking to it. Thanks for bringing it back up; but it in context is not about our walk but faith in the One who's walk was perfect in accordance to the Law. So no, it is not trust in a provision as you charge, but trust in the Person of Christ Jesus...unless you count Him as the Provision by which His Blood purifies my heart.

 

[just-me]

I got it!! Yea! I got it!
God justifies by His faith toward us whether we are circumcised or not. It's His faith and His choice whether we are His or not. We have neither the capability to void or establish anything spiritually because we haven't the capability to justify ourselves. God forbid that we should even think we can make void or establish anything that belong only to Him! It is only God who has made old law void and established a new law.

We have no alternative but to think of natural things and fleshly things because we are human. Those things in the old covenant caused a division between God and man, but Jesus has taken the division away that the law made and killed it, and now we are not in subjection to the law because it vanishes the moment we believe these things by God's faith toward us. Therefore it is Christ who makes the law void which used to be the division between God and man. God forbid that we should ever try to void out or establish anything that only God has power to do. That's like eating the forbidden fruit in Eden and becoming like God.

That makes about as much sense and stopping to think and then forgetting to start. Somehow my train of thought left the station without me.

 

[chubbena]

That's a good one. I remember it, but I read mostly KJV and can't find it. What is the scripture reference to that? Thanks

Sorry I was away from the computer....it was from Jeremiah 6:16.

Indeed, the book of Jeremiah is relevant today.

Earlier in the chapter He said: To whom can I speak and give warning? Who will listen to me? Their ears are closed so they cannot hear. The word of the Lord is offensive to them; they find no pleasure in it cf Jeremiah 6:10
In fact, the earth is witnessing the wickedness: Hear, you earth: I am bringing disaster on this people, the fruit of their schemes, because they have not listened to my words and have rejected my law cf Jeremiah 6:19

 

[chubbena]

Cannot some of you for once give Jesus the glory for his perfect obedience (v31) instead of continually want to insert self into the equation? Is not faith a denial of self and a whole hearted reliance on God? Is the law in you still your hope? Are you establishing the law by your imperfect law keeping?

Is quoting Paul saying "through Christ I can do all things" not giving the Lord the glory for His perfect obedience?
Is through Christ I can do all things except obedience to His Word?
This poster is not evening replying my post or he would not have said "are you establishing the law by your imperfect law keeping?"
Please read again:

And again Paul said "through Christ I can do all things" did that all things exclude the keeping of the law?

Is a new being in Christ who walks in the Spirit not able to keep the law?
Only when one misunderstands that to keep the law is to never do anything wrong.

If only one is willing to look at our example i.e. the Israel nation.
Sin offering is for anyone sins unintentionally and does when is forbidden in any of the Lord's commands cf Leviticus 4.
Guilt offering is for a person commits a violation and sins unintentionally in regard to any of the Lord's holy things cf Leviticus 5.
And we all know these OT offerings are types for the offering of Christ on the cross.
The reason the book of Hebrews said "If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left."

But then I understand when one continuously speaks against the law he's blind to everything.

 

[crossnote]

I got it!! Yea! I got it!
God justifies by His faith toward us whether we are circumcised or not. It's His faith and His choice whether we are His or not. We have neither the capability to void or establish anything spiritually because we haven't the capability to justify ourselves. God forbid that we should even think we can make void or establish anything that belong only to Him! It is only God who has made old law void and established a new law.

We have no alternative but to think of natural things and fleshly things because we are human. Those things in the old covenant caused a division between God and man, but Jesus has taken the division away that the law made and killed it, and now we are not in subjection to the law because it vanishes the moment we believe these things by God's faith toward us. Therefore it is Christ who makes the law void which used to be the division between God and man. God forbid that we should ever try to void out or establish anything that only God has power to do. That's like eating the forbidden fruit in Eden and becoming like God.

That makes about as much sense and stopping to think and then forgetting to start. Somehow my train of thought left the station without me.

a perfect example of a...

 

[RedTent]

It doesn't seem to me that there is any real argument here to all the people who have the Holy Spirit within them and follow it through to allowing the word to lead them.

One side wants destruction: destroy all the old for we have the new that is the destroyer. The other side says follow the new it is better than the old, it builds on what was.

One side says to engage your intellect and will as you follow, the other side says to do nothing with your intellect and will to follow the Lord.

 

[just-me]

It doesn't seem to me that there is any real argument here to all the people who have the Holy Spirit within them and follow it through to allowing the word to lead them.

One side wants destruction: destroy all the old for we have the new that is the destroyer. The other side says follow the new it is better than the old, it builds on what was.

One side says to engage your intellect and will as you follow, the other side says to do nothing with your intellect and will to follow the Lord.

It's a conundrum for sure sis. We should all strive to have the mind of Christ.
"If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded , having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind . Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:" Philippians 2:1-5

 

[Elin]

How do we establish the law?

The atoning sacrifice of Jesus saves one from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) on one's guilt,

thus establishing the law on a right basis, subordinate to the law of grace which saves by faith only,

not by law-keeping.

Obedience to the new covenant law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; Gal 5:6) is then the result

of that saving faith.

I give you the Word of God:

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Php 2:13 οG3588 T-NSM θεοςG2316 N-NSM - (the God) γαρG1063 CONJ - (seeing that) εστινG1510 V-PAI-3S - (God is) οG3588 T-NSM ενεργωνG1754 V-PAP-NSM - (the One being active) ενG1722 PREP - (in) υμινG4771 P-2DP - (you*) καιG2532 CONJ - (even) τοG3588 T-ASN - (this) θελεινG2309 V-PAN - (to desire) καιG2532 CONJ - (and) τοG3588 T-ASN - (this) ενεργεινG1754 V-PAN - (to be active) υπερG5228 PREP - (ABOVE (beyond, more than)(KJV: of (G1537))) τηςG3588 T-GSF ευδοκιαςG2107 N-GSF - (His pleasure)

Php 2:13 Seeing that God is the One being active in you*, even this: to desire and to be active (KJV: do (G4160)) ABOVE (beyond, more than)(KJV: of (G1537) His pleasure.​

So just how does that differ from what I stated?

If it is us who must work out our own salvation with fear and tremble without complaining, then
it is not God who is performing in us all the deeds we do.

What part of "God works in you to will and to do" do you not understand?

If it is God who works in us His will and the doing, then
who is at fault when we do not do what He has willed? Certainly not God.

It is God's will that all the born again are made right with him, saved from his wrath,
walk in the obedience of saving faith, and are his sons for eternity. . .and they are.
God's will is done.

You do the math.

I can agree that God is the One who is active in us to cause us to do more then the minimum.

You're improvising.

And precisely, what is this "minimum"?

 

[cfultz3]

It's a conundrum for sure sis. We should all strive to have the mind of Christ.
"If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded , having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind . Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:" Philippians 2:1-5

As a family in Christ, we should all do this along with your signature....

Let us do as we speak....

 

[Elin]

I know and understand scripture. And again I ask what is your mind and will doing with the word and with the Holy Spirit that is in you?

Walking in the power of God to obey.

 

[Elin]

Paul say's it is no longer I who lives but Christ through me. What do you think he means by that?

That is the power of God, not his own power, by which he obeys.

 

[Elin]

Salvation is actually premised on yielding to God from the heart whereby we approach God in truth
seeking a cleansing.

Nope. . .you're improvising.

Salvation is premised only on true faith in Jesus Christ.

There is simply no salvation whilst one remains in rebellion,
one MUST repent and forsake their sin through godly sorrow working a genuine repentance unto salvation.
Only then will God regenerate anyone because the Holy Spirit cannot indwell a defiled vessel.

Your knowledge of God's power is much too limited.

God justifies the wicked (Ro 4:5), for there are non righteous until God justifies them.

There are many who have been stopped dead in their tracks of sin and wickedness,
and converted on the spot to saving faith.

There was no forsaking of their sin before the power of God converted their hearts.
However, there was a mighty change of mind and heart, repentance,
that came with God's powerful conversion.

 

[RedTent]

Nope. . .you're improvising.

Salvation is premised only on true faith in Jesus Christ.

Your knowledge of God's power is much too limited.

There are many who have been stopped dead in their tracks of sin and wickedness,
and converted on the spot to saving faith..

What you are refusing to see is that all of God's power is nothing if it is not acted on. You talk of faith, but you speak of it as standing alone without faith enough to act on it. You speak of the new as an improvement of the Old, but it always has the added negative of cancelling out the old not building. It is as if you know the fundamentals, but you say hold back, don't go all the way. It is a message of tearing down, not of building to faith, love and joy.

On top of that, you say you are the authority! You use 'NOPE" constantly, a sort of listen to Elin, she has all the answers. You have an interpretation of scripture so your basic understanding stems from the idea that God wiped out a lot when God established the new. I feel sure that God never changes his fundamentals, God is one and God is eternal. I think you are correct to see all scripture as based on God's attributes, I disagree with you saying a fundamental is that the new God gave was one of destruction of the old.