We establish the Law...but how?

[RedTent]

Faith in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus saves one from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) on one's guilt,

thus establishing the law on a right basis, subordinate to the law of grace which saves by faith only,

not by law-keeping.

Obedience to the new covenant law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; Gal 5:6) is then the result

of that saving faith.

With all these posts opposed to law keeping, yet saying that just knowing Christ results in keeping the law, I wonder how far you mean for man to go in depending on Christ to automatically have you keep the law?

You seem to be against anything man can do to learn, to act, to listen, to pray even. How far is it that this "result" go, is there any part of our intent or doing that you think is involved when you concentrate on only the new covenant and dismiss so much of scripture?

 

[psychomom]

Jesus did not die on the cross as your substitute. You are trusting in a fiction and the fiction has you completely in its grasp. That is why you cannot refute what I write with the Bible.

cannot and choose not to are not the same thing.
i've seen how you mishandle the Word of Truth...

you just keep climbing that ladder in your own 'strength'.

 

[crossnote]

Is not Spirit of God the giver of our faith, and is not the Spirit of God the motivator of our faith in Him?
That's not off topic. It's the answer to your question of "we establish the law....but how?"

Romans 3:27-30
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded . By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith *without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

"without" 5565. choris kho-rece' adverb from 5561; at a space, i.e. separately or apart from (often as preposition):--beside, *by itself, without.
"deeds" 2041. ergon er'-gon from a primary (but obsolete) ergo (to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication, an act:--deed, doing, labour, work.

As I had mentioned before, Paul is using "circumcision" as a focus of describing the law in chapter 3 in Romans. I had also mentioned that the law says that Circumcision is supposed to be of the heart to alleviate being stubborn or "stiffnecked."

It is important to note that Romans 3:28 is clear that the deeds of the law "*by itself" are not what makes a person justified. Faith comes first through the spirit and is the motivator to establish the law. The sequence of events come from God. I think I see your motivation of teaching an interpretation of scripture that you want to be true, but isn't.

"We" are included and exhorted to respond responsibly to these things according to Romans 3:31 as a summary of the entire chapter.
So I end trying to help you to understand "how" with this. We receive faith by the Spirit of God. We are to use that faith to establish the law given by God not by separate deeds of the law minus faith, but by the motivating Spirit of God. If the law cannot be established, then the motivation isn't there. What do you think that says?

In order of accomplishment. All capability comes from above.
1. Spirit
2. Faith
3. Establishment is successful

In that order. Is there something that you don't understand about Paul including himself with ourselves in the said verse when he says "we"? He is exhorting us to insert "self". ourselves.
"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid : yea, we establish the law."

WHEE!!

ok, your foundation is 'your' 'faith for establishing the law, mine is Christ. Thank you.

 

[just-me]

Originally Posted by psychomom

solipsistic bondage.

Big words don't trump Bible truth.

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

solipsistic=the theory that only the self exists, or can be proved to exist: characterized by the adjective of solipsism as in "He is single-minded, and this fact leads to a solipsistic performance.

 

[psychomom]

Originally Posted by psychomom

solipsistic bondage.




solipsistic=the theory that only the self exists, or can be proved to exist: characterized by the adjective of solipsism as in "He is single-minded, and this fact leads to a solipsistic performance.

i'm sorry...my tiny brain...

not sure what you're saying.

 

[Elin]

Paul is not going to contradict Jesus in anything he teaches therefore
William Newell is obviously twisting the writings of Paul and following the Spirit of Error.

William Newell in no way contradicts either Jesus or Paul.

You see apart from faith outward deeds profit nothing. Without faith an outward deed is a dead work.
The issue is the heart. The heart was the issue with the Pharisees...

Nope. . .you are confusing justification by faith, and sanctification through the obedience of faith.

cleansing is via faith, a faith that works by love, a faith that fulfills the law because love works no ill.

Nope. . .love fulfills the law.

So what Paul is teaching is in perfect agreement with what
Jesus was teaching in the Sermon on the Mount...

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Nope. . .Paul is dealing with justification by faith.

Jesus was dealing with sanctification by the obedience of faith..

Jesus was teaching about heart purity and compelled people to be pure.

Yes, Jesus was dealing with sanctification through the obedience of faith.

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us if we walk after the Spirit because when we walk after the Spirit we are abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

Nope. . .the righteousness of the law is fulfilled only by perfect obedience to the law,
and Jesus is the only one who has, or ever will, fulfill that righteousness on earth.

Saved by grace THROUGH faith simply means we abide wholeheartedly in the grace of God and are inwardly transformed and made pure.

Nope. . .it means exactly what it states--faith is a free gift of God, which saves us.

Faith is the working dynamic by which we yield to God and
faith comes when we meditate on the words of God and
that is why faith is a gift from God.

Nope. . .saving faith is a gift from God because it is by free grace only, not through anything we do.

Don't be fooled by those who would twist Paul and preach the error of the wicked. Paul does not contradict Jesus and the way to life is to DO what Jesus said to do. That is to
repent and forsake sin, yield to God and follow Jesus.

Nope. . .Jesus said he gives eternal life to those who believe in him.

Obedience is the result of the saving faith which gives eternal life, not the cause of it.

It's not William Newell who is twisting the writings of Paul.

 

[vic1980]

I hope one day , we all can agree and praise God as one

God bless

 

[Elin]

Big words don't trump Bible truth.

Agreed. . .

And neither does your twisting of the writings of Paul.

 

[Elin]

Truth and error do not mix and while you might think you go to Jesus for healing it is most certainly another Jesus. I have seen the posts you "like" and I have seen the truths you deny.

Jesus did not die on the cross as your substitute. You are trusting in a fiction and the fiction has you completely in its grasp. That is why you cannot refute what I write with the Bible.

You don't know much about the nature of the OT sin sacrifice
which was a pre-figure of Christ our sin sacrifice (2Co 5:21).

 

[just-me]

ok, your foundation is 'your' 'faith for establishing the law, mine is Christ. Thank you.

You are then denying that you have been given faith. You are actully saying that the Spirit of God has not given you any gifts.

 

[just-me]

solipsistic=the theory that only the self exists, or can be proved to exist: characterized by the adjective of solipsism as in "He is single-minded, and this fact leads to a solipsistic performance.

i'm sorry...my tiny brain...

not sure what you're saying.

It is actully the meaning of the word you used on this post

 

[cfultz3]

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us if we walk after the Spirit because when we walk after the Spirit we are abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

Nope. . .the righteousness of the law is fulfilled only by perfect obedience to the law,
and Jesus is the only one who has, or ever will, fulfill that righteousness on earth.

I believe Skinski to be right here:

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.​

 

[Elin]

Faith in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus saves one from God's wrath (Ro 5:9) on one's guilt,

thus establishing the law on a right basis, subordinate to
the law of grace which saves by faith only, not by law-keeping.

Obedience to the new covenant law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; Gal 5:6)
is then the result of that saving faith.

With all these posts opposed to law keeping, yet saying that just knowing Christ results in keeping the law, I wonder how far you mean for man to go in depending on Christ to automatically have you keep the law?

You seem to be against anything man can do to learn, to act, to listen, to pray even.

You have me confused with someone else.

How far is it that this "result" go, is there any part of our intent or doing that you think is involved when you concentrate on only the new covenant and dismiss so much of scripture?

Do you read selectively?

Your question was answered in my post above, highlighted for your attention.

 

[cfultz3]

cleansing is via faith, a faith that works by love, a faith that fulfills the law because love works no ill.

Nope. . .love fulfills the law.

Skinski is defining a faith which has love in it = it is a faith that fulfills the law [God's Law] because love works no ill.

 

[Elin]

I hope one day , we all can agree and praise God as one

God bless

If it didn't happen when God the Son was among us,

it won't ever happen that truth will agree with untruth.

 

[cfultz3]

You don't know much about the nature of the OT sin sacrifice
which was a pre-figure of Christ our sin sacrifice (2Co 5:21).

Thank God He died and went to Hades for us so that we do not have to. If Christ did not take our place, we all will be going to Hell.......

 

[Elin]

I believe Skinski to be right here:

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Good for you!

"That the righteous requirements (demands) of the law might be fulfilled in us (not by us),"

through the power of Christ and the Holy Spirit within us as we obey the law of Christ from faith.

 

[Elin]

Skinski is defining a faith which has love in it = it is a faith that fulfills the law [God's Law] because love works no ill.

He should state what Scripture states, not his own version of it, which is misleading.

 

[cfultz3]

......

"That the righteous requirements (demands) of the law might be fulfilled in us (not by us),"

through the power of Christ and the Holy Spirit within us as we obey the law of Christ from faith.

Rom 8:3-4 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

God condemned sin in the flesh so that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, those who do not walk according to the flesh, but walk according to the Spirit.

It is not through the power of Christ and the Holy Spirit within us, that righteousness is fulfilled when we follow what the Spirit leads us to do. However, it is Christ who works that will in us, but going along with the Spirit is needed from us. Those times that we don't are those deeds which shall be burnt up by the Fire, though we ourselves shall be saved because of our faith.

 

[RedTent]

You have me confused with someone else.


Do you read selectively?

Your question was answered in my post above, highlighted for your attention.

Then you are standing firm in your belief that faith only is required, and then we can stand back and watch ourselves to see the results of that faith with trust in ourselves. So law keeping by using our minds, discipline, or will must be set aside?

If this miraculously leads to a Christian walk, then people have only to handle what they think of the Lord and whatever acts they do are not our responsibility but the responsibility of Christ?