We were Predestined by God
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Like I stated, EG, you basically have it right! And, you are also correct in your referring to the whole of humanity, as to having only 2 choices. 
Yes?....er No!
The 2 choices I was referring to, as per OP, for those who have been predestined, are: Ya can make it harder on yourself, or easier on yourself. The "issue" of those who have been predestined, coming to Christ>? Is not even in the Fathers' "equation"! Meaning?...Tis already (or shall be), a given!
Yes?....er No!The 2 choices I was referring to, as per OP, for those who have been predestined, are: Ya can make it harder on yourself, or easier on yourself. The "issue" of those who have been predestined, coming to Christ>? Is not even in the Fathers' "equation"! Meaning?...Tis already (or shall be), a given!
i don't think you understand what you said.
you implied: i choose, then God obediently reacts according to my choice.
that would be God post-destining me according to my own will.
"post-" as in His purpose for me isn't determined until after i take the action of significance that determines my fate.
"pre-" on the other hand, implies that He purposed me before i ever took any action of my own -- that He is the prime mover in this thing, not me.
Why would you use the logic of predestined with Jeremiah? I didn't do that. God chose Jeremiah even from the womb to be a prophet. God is the same always, but the way he chooses to work has been different. Surely you would agree. His nature never changes.
hmm, so if Jeremiah chose God of his own free will before he was even an embryo, and only then did God in reaction set him apart to be His prophet, did all of us who believe do the same thing?
EDIT: nevermind, here i am thinking God is the same yesterday, today and forever again. my bad.
EDIT: nevermind, here i am thinking God is the same yesterday, today and forever again. my bad.
I think we are working with a deck of 51 cards.
There are not just gaps but gaping holes in our comprehension of how the eternal and finite intersect.
We have finite minds..God is infinite.
We have never tasted eternity.
True, we have His Word, but being locked in time, how can we fathom 'before the foundation of the world'?
Etecetera.
There are not just gaps but gaping holes in our comprehension of how the eternal and finite intersect.
We have finite minds..God is infinite.
We have never tasted eternity.
True, we have His Word, but being locked in time, how can we fathom 'before the foundation of the world'?
Etecetera.
Our Lord Jesus explained this when He said,
Matt 20:16
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
KJV
His Apostles were 'sent', which is what being a chosen apostle is about. Apostle Paul is one of the strongest examples, because Paul was persecuting Christ's Church when Jesus struck him down and chose him as His vessel to take The Gospel to the Gentiles (Acts 9).
To understand predestination per God's Word, one must first understand this difference between being called and being chosen. John 17 is an important Chapter in that study, as Jesus showed there His Apostles were already owned by The Father beforehand, and that they were 'sent' ones to preach The Gospel so that others called might believe and both would become One in The Father and The Son.
Matt.24:24 is also an important part of this, because it shows the deception the coming false messiah is to cause would, if it were possible, deceive even Christ's very elect. That phrase, "if it were possible" is a revealing that His chosen sent ones cannot... be deceived.
And then Christ's and His Apostle's preaching to the Church admonishing members to be careful to not be deceived or fall away is a revealing of how it is possible for the called to be deceived by Antichrist.
In essence, Christ's chosen are free from being tested by this world, for The Father already owned them before the foundation of this world. He directly influences their will and understanding. They will never be in danger of falling away, for they are the few that are chosen and sent.
But the rest of us who are called only, we must come to Christ of our own free will when called and choose to remain in Christ to the end, and thus we are tested.
Matt 20:16
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
KJV
His Apostles were 'sent', which is what being a chosen apostle is about. Apostle Paul is one of the strongest examples, because Paul was persecuting Christ's Church when Jesus struck him down and chose him as His vessel to take The Gospel to the Gentiles (Acts 9).
To understand predestination per God's Word, one must first understand this difference between being called and being chosen. John 17 is an important Chapter in that study, as Jesus showed there His Apostles were already owned by The Father beforehand, and that they were 'sent' ones to preach The Gospel so that others called might believe and both would become One in The Father and The Son.
Matt.24:24 is also an important part of this, because it shows the deception the coming false messiah is to cause would, if it were possible, deceive even Christ's very elect. That phrase, "if it were possible" is a revealing that His chosen sent ones cannot... be deceived.
And then Christ's and His Apostle's preaching to the Church admonishing members to be careful to not be deceived or fall away is a revealing of how it is possible for the called to be deceived by Antichrist.
In essence, Christ's chosen are free from being tested by this world, for The Father already owned them before the foundation of this world. He directly influences their will and understanding. They will never be in danger of falling away, for they are the few that are chosen and sent.
But the rest of us who are called only, we must come to Christ of our own free will when called and choose to remain in Christ to the end, and thus we are tested.
God chose us first. Then God called us.
Its up to us then to accept Him as our Lord and Savior.
We did not go seeking after God.
Romans 3:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
Clearly God says NONE seeks after God!
Its up to us then to accept Him as our Lord and Savior.
We did not go seeking after God.
Romans 3:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
Clearly God says NONE seeks after God!