We were Predestined by God

[posthuman]

"Heaven and earth, may pass away, but My WORDS, shall NEVER pass away!" Sounds like a pretty good declaration of soverignity to me.

or ..

Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.
(Psalm 115:3)

Whatever the Lord pleases, he does, in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps.
(Psalm 135:6)

Who has spoken and it came to pass, unless the Lord has commanded it?
(Lamentations 3:37)

He makes nations great, and he destroys them; he enlarges nations, and leads them away.
(Job 12:23)

The Lord kills and brings to life; he brings down to Sheol and raises up.
(1 Samuel 2:6)

No wisdom, no understanding, no counsel can avail against the Lord.
(Proverbs 21:30)
​

et cetera.

 

[posthuman]

Then don't use the word sovereign. It's not found in Scripture.

you are very much mistaken.

Sovereign Lord, you have begun to show to your servant your greatness and your strong hand. For what god is there in heaven or on earth who can do the deeds and mighty works you do?
(Deuteronomy 3:24, NIV)
​

and that is hardly the only place it is found. a quick search found 303 instances of the word.
what, do you dispute that God is sovereign? or think that it is only 'calvinists' who know Him to be so?

what does this mean:

It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
(Romans 9:16)
​

does it mean Paul is a "calvinist" ?

a lot of times, dude, i don't get you.

 

[posthuman]

How can one WORK out their Salvation when Salvation is a free gift from God by Faith and Grace?

i've heard it said -- "you can't work something out that hasn't first been worked in"

 

[Stephen63]

Romans 8:29-30
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP] having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Ephesians 1:11
[SUP]11 [/SUP] In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,

We True Believers were Predestined by God to accept Jesus as our Lord and Saver. He chose us first, we did not chose Him.

Ephesians 1:4
[SUP]4 [/SUP] just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love

There IS a plan of predestination..... but just NOT the one you seem to imply.
Many false doctrines use the same "name" of a theology, then give it a different meaning while using the same scriptures as the true doctrine to verify it.

Romans 8:30
8:30. On predestination, see Romans 9. The predication of predestination on foreknowledge (Romans 8:29) does not cancel free will; most of Judaism accepted both God’s sovereignty and human responsibility. (The idea that one has to choose between them is a post-New Testament idea based on Greek logic.)
Bible Background Commentary - The IVP Bible Background Commentary – New Testament.

God's settled plan and purpose for the universe shall be consummated. He has determined two supreme things (Romans 8:29).
⇒ Believers shall be conformed to the image of His dear Son (Romans 8:29).
⇒ His Son shall have many brothers, among whom He is to be honored as the first (the most preeminent) Person (Romans 8:29).
Preacher's Outline and Sermon Bible - Commentary - The Preacher's Outline & Sermon Bible – Romans.

The whole point of God's predestined plan for man is that everyone who repents & accepts Christ as Savior will be adopted into God's kingdom as the Sons of God, with equal access to the Throne of Grace, faith, promises, & so forth..... NOT a predestined plan of WHO will be saved, but a predestined plan of equal sonship & inheritance to those who take up their cross & follow Jesus. There's no respecter of persons with God..... the ground is level at Calvary!

 

[DP]

How can one WORK out their Salvation when Salvation is a free gift from God by Faith and Grace?

What is there to work out? Either you have Faith and Grace and Salvation or you do not have Faith and Grace and Salvation.

Philippians 2:12-13
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

You need to quote verse 13 also. In verse 13 Paul goes on to explain its God who is working out your Salvation. We are to iron or work out our problems we encounter in our walk with Jesus. The working out is not about working for your Salvation because God says in Ephesians 2:8 that Salvation in not received by works.

You see this is the problem with most people today, they really do not know how to study and understand the Scriptures.

God does not say out of one corner of His mouth to work out your Salvation and out of the other corner of His mouth say Salvation is not by works.

The problem here is not God but other people who refuse to take the time to really study and get down in the Scriptures to see what God is really saying.

Works don't save us, only by God's grace through Faith on Him and His Son's Blood shed upon the cross can save us.

So works is a separate subject, and an important one too per our Lord Jesus and His Apostles. Apostle James especially revealed this relationship between Faith and works too.

James 1:22-24
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.


23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:


24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
KJV

 

[KenAllan]

We must understand there will always be those who want to tell God how we receive Salvation. Its their Pride in working for and receiving their Salvation by their own efforts is why they teach works are needed to receive and maintain their Salvation.

How can a person grow in the Lord when they are too wrapped up in receiving and keeping their Salvation by their works?

Also how can they know IF they have done enough works to receive and maintain their Salvation?

Tell me, how many works do we need to do to receive Salvation? Is it one works per year or is it one works per second?

 

[Grace777x70]

A works-based righteousness theology creates fear. This fear is what alienates people from intimacy with God.

The fear ( awe and reverence that we are to have as His children ) of the Lord is the beginning , but not the culmination of knowledge.

Fear lives in anticipation of bad: love and faith, and hope live in anticipation of good. People who live in fear expect punishment and condemnation.

When people feel they don't measure up to God's standard, they feel unqualified to receive from God.

"The one who fears has not been made perfect in love. We love because He first loved us." 1 John 4:18-19 We are free to love God, love people, love ourselves in Him and love life when we know God has loved us and will for all eternity love us unconditionally.


2 Corinthians 3:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Galatians 5:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

 

[NayborBear]

(excerpted from #42)
"....Have you not seen there are people here who repeat themselves, who are making the same point, in hundreds of posts? Who, in fact, make everything about themselves and their private interpretations,...."
(Matt.-22)(KJV)

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together , Jesus asked them,
42 Saying , What think ye of Christ? whose son is he ? They say unto him, The Son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying ,
44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool *?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

(Acts-2)(KJV)
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make * thy foes thy footstool *.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified , both Lord and Christ.
(Psalms-110)(KJV)

1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool *


How should one "imagine", that GOD accomplishes this? HE just "snaps" His fingers? And it's done?
GOD FORBID!

How is it that the Father, who created us, for HIS good pleasure, to choose to love /serve HIM, know, for a surety, just who is really FOR HIM? Could HE? Just snap His fingers? Yes! HE could! Will HE?.....Don't deceive yourself!


The current "battle plan" today's churches are implementing, that: "Save alive souls that should not be saved, whilst Slaying the souls of those, who should not die!" (Straining gnats/swallowing camels), Is not working! The enemy, is sitting right NEXT to ye in church, yet you don't respond! And? How can you? Without being "held in contempt"? Rather sad, ain't it? When money TALKS!

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"....that refute centuries of accepted Reformed Christian beliefs and the teachings of a long line of faithful, fundamentalist, seminarian pastors, who all agree by the Spirit?"

(this should read): "....that refute traditions of men, who all agree "by the Spirit?".....What spirit? Do y'all test this spirit y'all are agreeing with? Er, just assume, that since y'all are espousing Jesus, that it's His Spirit?......And, perchance it IS Jesus' Spirit y'all are agreeing in, then, assuming, yet again, that Jesus just "rubber stamps" that which occurs in these proceedings, as being the Fathers' will? (again) GOD FORBID!