'What About Deborah?' and Other Silly Excuses Women Use to Usurp Authority
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For once sake I am with you on this clip. I actually listened to the whole recording, it is 53 mins+ so I guess few will listen to all of it. Good that he brought up servanthood and at the closing the ordination issue. Important.
The issue has been discussed at length in this thread:
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...or-does-make-right-if-there-need-pastors.html
The issue has been discussed at length in this thread:
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...or-does-make-right-if-there-need-pastors.html
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Paul was designated by Christ an apostle to Gentiles. I am a Gentile.
Therefore I will listen to Paul rather than listen to hacks and sophists.
†. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.
†. 1Ths 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord
Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please
God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments
we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
====================================
Paul was designated by Christ an apostle to Gentiles. I am a Gentile.
Therefore I will listen to Paul rather than listen to hacks and sophists.
†. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.
†. 1Ths 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord
Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please
God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments
we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
====================================
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Exactly right. If we were to begin parsing the writings of Paul, Peter, James,
John, and Jude; then who do we risk entrusting with the authority and the
responsibility of determining what applies universally and what doesn't?
According to passages like Col 4:16, it was Paul's wishes that his letters be
passed around-- if not for guidance then for what? Amusement?
According to passages like 1Cor 16:1, what Paul wrote to one church is
applicable to all
BTW: You know, if only Eve had stuck to her guns instead of letting the
Serpent's clever sophistry persuade her to rebel against God, the world
wouldn't be in the mess it's in today. Well I chose not to repeat Eve's
mistake. I mean; what is there to gain from reading Genesis if not to
learn something from it?
=====================================
Exactly right. If we were to begin parsing the writings of Paul, Peter, James,
John, and Jude; then who do we risk entrusting with the authority and the
responsibility of determining what applies universally and what doesn't?
According to passages like Col 4:16, it was Paul's wishes that his letters be
passed around-- if not for guidance then for what? Amusement?
According to passages like 1Cor 16:1, what Paul wrote to one church is
applicable to all
BTW: You know, if only Eve had stuck to her guns instead of letting the
Serpent's clever sophistry persuade her to rebel against God, the world
wouldn't be in the mess it's in today. Well I chose not to repeat Eve's
mistake. I mean; what is there to gain from reading Genesis if not to
learn something from it?
=====================================
V
Absolutely true, but remember she had Barak to render authority over the armies of Israel. Barak recognized the authority God had placed on Deborah, but wished to honor God by asking Deborah to accompany him into battle, so that the men of Israel would see she was hearing God, and God in turn was directing Israel through them.
There is no reason to believe that words spoken specifically to one church in one era of church history would be inspired and therefore survive the ages since. No, this is not for Ephesus only, but for all churches, all Christians.
Yes, women may preach, teach, evangelize, but as related in 1 Corinthians 11, they must have the mantle of authority from Christ through a husband or senior pastor, which is the only office within the church's (body of Christ) discipleship ministry from which women are excluded.
There is no reason to believe that words spoken specifically to one church in one era of church history would be inspired and therefore survive the ages since. No, this is not for Ephesus only, but for all churches, all Christians.
Yes, women may preach, teach, evangelize, but as related in 1 Corinthians 11, they must have the mantle of authority from Christ through a husband or senior pastor, which is the only office within the church's (body of Christ) discipleship ministry from which women are excluded.
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Well; you can forget about Christ's mantle. No guess work there seeing as
how Paul spoke for Christ.
†. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.
†. 1Ths 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord
Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please
God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments
we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
†. 1 Cor 14:33-35 . . As in all the congregations of the saints, women should
remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in
submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they
should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to
speak in the church.
The epistles of Titus and Timothy are sometimes referred to as the pastoral
epistles because they contain Christ's instructions for governing Christian
churches. Therefore, any pastor who takes it upon himself to give a woman
permission to teach and/or preach and/or dominate men is guilty of
insubordination; which according to 1Sam 15:22-23 is all the same in
severity as divination and idolatry.
You Know, the way some people regard church government is no different
than boys in a tree house. Well Christianity is not a democracy; it's a
theocracy, and Christ is not a boy-- he's a monarch, and monarchs typically
expect their edicts to be obeyed.
=========================================
Well; you can forget about Christ's mantle. No guess work there seeing as
how Paul spoke for Christ.
†. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.
†. 1Ths 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord
Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please
God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments
we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
†. 1 Cor 14:33-35 . . As in all the congregations of the saints, women should
remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in
submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they
should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to
speak in the church.
The epistles of Titus and Timothy are sometimes referred to as the pastoral
epistles because they contain Christ's instructions for governing Christian
churches. Therefore, any pastor who takes it upon himself to give a woman
permission to teach and/or preach and/or dominate men is guilty of
insubordination; which according to 1Sam 15:22-23 is all the same in
severity as divination and idolatry.
You Know, the way some people regard church government is no different
than boys in a tree house. Well Christianity is not a democracy; it's a
theocracy, and Christ is not a boy-- he's a monarch, and monarchs typically
expect their edicts to be obeyed.
=========================================
Yes, Paul spoke Thus Sayeth the Lord.............but if you are going to specify that he ONLY spoke this way, then please explain how he stated we should not get married? Is that the Commandment of Christ?
Sexist domination is not "of Christ." Put all the lipstick one wants on that, and it still ain't of Christ.
Sexist domination is not "of Christ." Put all the lipstick one wants on that, and it still ain't of Christ.
A
Since you're so into telling women how to behave and what is silly. Back at you.
How about this? Titus 2.
6 Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.
7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.
What about your pattern of good works?
(What is it about some guys that makes them think it's their responsibility to train up women? Isn't that what hubbies and older women are for?)
How about this? Titus 2.
6 Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.
7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.
What about your pattern of good works?
(What is it about some guys that makes them think it's their responsibility to train up women? Isn't that what hubbies and older women are for?)
Not at all. My argument is quite sound. You just haven't got my point.
If you don't know yet that it is scientifically demonstrated that women think in a different way from men then you need an education. Men think more logically, women think more intuitively. This is not an insult to either men or women it is a fact. I will be very happy to hear her intuitive thoughts lol.
If you don't know yet that it is scientifically demonstrated that women think in a different way from men then you need an education. Men think more logically, women think more intuitively. This is not an insult to either men or women it is a fact. I will be very happy to hear her intuitive thoughts lol.
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Paul did not say that we should not get married. He said that it was good to marry if the alternative was sexual frustration. He merely recommended non-marriage as enabling a Christian to concentrate more on ministry as long as they did not burn with passion.
I don't think anyone is talking about sexist domination. They are talking abut a God revealed world order, which if followed would produce the best results spiritually..
I don't think anyone is talking about sexist domination. They are talking abut a God revealed world order, which if followed would produce the best results spiritually..
1 Corinthians 7:6) But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
7 .) For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8 .) I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 .) But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
Paul clearly states he would rather that they did not marry............and NOTICE he ALSO SAID.......
But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
As I initially stated, and has been disputed, Paul wrote in TWO DISTINCT STYLES.
1) Thus sayeth the Lord
2) It would be better that/I would rather that
# 1 are to be taken as Commandments of God
#2 are guidelines
And, there are some here who are surely speaking of sexist domination........
WebersHome specifically rejected my initial statement. The above Scripture is proof of my statement. As to the "sexist" attitudes here, one has but to read through all of the comments, and through the thousands of previous comments on this subject to see the truth.
7 .) For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8 .) I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 .) But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
Paul clearly states he would rather that they did not marry............and NOTICE he ALSO SAID.......
But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
As I initially stated, and has been disputed, Paul wrote in TWO DISTINCT STYLES.
1) Thus sayeth the Lord
2) It would be better that/I would rather that
# 1 are to be taken as Commandments of God
#2 are guidelines
And, there are some here who are surely speaking of sexist domination........
WebersHome specifically rejected my initial statement. The above Scripture is proof of my statement. As to the "sexist" attitudes here, one has but to read through all of the comments, and through the thousands of previous comments on this subject to see the truth.
