what does ineffable mean to you?

[KittenofMelchisedek]

I know we are adopted and can freely come to God, through the blood of Christ. We can call on God, as children to our Father. I personally wouldn't call my father by his first name. This is not to be condemning, quite the contrary. I would love to know, as I see many on here have peace to talk about God using the name Yahweh, why is or isn't it ok in peoples minds. What I had been taught, and thank you all ahead of time for correcting me if I'm wrong, is that in the Hebrew the 4 letter name of God was unpronounceable, and considered to be ineffable. There are legends of people or spirits speaking the name and blasting off into outer space (yes I know, I'm exaggerating). I'm not saying you are wrong if you say it, just curious why you do, if you do, and if you back it up with scripture or just say it cuz you want to or did God tell you it was ok or if anyone has any thoughts that might aid my understanding.

 

[Hizikyah]

the origin of the ban on the Name of the Most High: Yahweh

Talmud - Mas. Sotah 38a
Another [Baraitha] taught: ‘On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel’ — with the use of
the Shem Hameforash.15 You say that it means with the Tetragrammaton; but perhaps that is not so and a substituted name was used!16 There is a text to say: So shall they put My name17 — My name which is unique to Me. It is possible to think that [the Shem Hameforash was also used] in places outside the Temple; but it is stated here, ‘So shall they put My name’ and elsewhere it is stated: To put His name there18 — as in this latter passage it denotes in the Temple so also in the former passage it denotes in the Temple. R. Joshiah says: [This deduction] is unnecessary; behold it states: In every place where I cause My name to be remembered I will come unto thee.19 Can it enter your mind that every place is intended?20 But the text must be transposed thus: In every place where I will come unto thee and bless thee will I cause My name to be remembered; and where will I come unto thee and bless thee? In the Temple; there, in the Temple, will I cause My name to be remembered. Another [Baraitha] teaches: ‘On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel’ — I have here only the children of Israel; whence is it that proselytes, women and enfranchised slaves [are included]? There is a text to state, Ye shall say unto them21 — i.e., to all of them.

"but perhaps that is not so and a substituted name was used,"
No Scripture says anything like this at all, a Rabbi comes along and says, " "but perhaps that is not so," and after that Yahweh's Name is hidden. However it is not that FOOLISH and innocent, as it was on purpose that this was contrived:

Yeremyah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds; Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to eforget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal; (Lord.)"

Now, you may be wondering why I have the word "Lord" after "Baal."

BAAL (DEITY) [Heb ba˓al (בַּעַל )]. Canaanite storm and fertility god. The name, which means “lord, ” is an epithet of the god Hadad (lit. “thunderer” ). Well-known from the OT, he is now extremely well-attested in the Ugaritic texts, in addition to being mentioned in other ancient texts.
Freedman, David Noel: The Anchor Bible Dictionary. New York : Doubleday, 1996, c1992, S. 1:546

BA´AL (bāʹal; Heb. ba˓al, “lord, possessor”).
1. A common name for god among the Phoenicians; also the name of their chief male god. See Gods, False.
Unger, Merrill Frederick ; Harrison, R. K. ; Vos, Howard Frederic ; Barber, Cyril J. ; Unger, Merrill Frederick: The New Unger's Bible Dictionary. Rev. and updated ed. Chicago : Moody Press, 1988


Baal (Heb. ba˓al) DEITY
The Canaanite storm- and fertility-god. As an epithet for various West Semitic deities, especially Hadad, the name means “lord,” designating a legal state of ownership or social superiority. With the obvious exception of Yahweh, Baal is the most significant deity in the OT.
Freedman, David Noel ; Myers, Allen C. ; Beck, Astrid B.: Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible. Grand Rapids, Mich. : W.B. Eerdmans, 2000


BAAL [BAY uhl] (lord, master) — the name of one or more false gods, a place, and two people in the Old Testament:
1. A fertility and nature god of the Canaanites and Phoenicians. Also see Gods, Pagan.
Youngblood, Ronald F. ; Bruce, F. F. ; Harrison, R. K. ; Thomas Nelson Publishers: Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary. Nashville : T. Nelson, 1995

The Name YHWH was removed at least 6,828 times and replaced with LORD or GOD. You can tell where it was because ALL the letters are capital where YHWH was. The Masorites added vowel points to the Hebrew manuscripts (not in the "J" writings," (Called J (Y) for it's use of YHWH), but in the next oldest, the "E" writings (for it's use of Elohim). The vowel points replaced Yahweh's Name with Adonal = Lord and Elohim = God(s).It is forbidden by Yahweh to hide His Name by the way. However as we seen in the Talmud, to the Rabbis this is of no effect: "we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice." Then we come to modern times when this false practice is still used, I have a Bible that says, quote: "this tradition is still used".

Mattithyah 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"

 

[Hizikyah]

Yet Yahweh tells us to use His Name:

Yahyl 2:32, "And whoever will call with the Name of Yahweh will be delivered; for in Mount Zion in Yerusalem there will be deliverance, as Yahweh has said, among the iremnant who has escaped of those whom Yahweh calls."

Yeremyah 12:14-17, "This is what Yahweh says against all My evil neighbors who touch the inheritance which I have caused My people Israyl to inherit: Behold, I will pluck them up from off their land, and I will pluck up the house of Yahdah from among them. And it will come to pass, after I have plucked them out, that I will return and have compassion on them, and bring them back; everyone to his aheritage and everyone to his land. And it will come to pass, if they will diligently learn the ways of My people, to vow by My Name, saying; As surely as Yahweh lives--as they once taught My people to vow by Baal; Lord--then they will be established in the midst of My people. But if they do not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, says Yahweh."

Zephanyah 3:9, "Yes, at that time I will return to the peoples a pure language, so that all of them may call on the Name of Yahweh, and serve Him with one accord"

Exodus 3:13-15, "Then Mosheh said to Yahweh; Suppose I go to the children of Israyl, and say to them: The Almighty Father of your fathers has sent me to you, and they ask me; What is His Name? Then what shall I tell them? Then Yahweh said to Mosheh: I am Who I am. And He said: This is what you are to say to the children of Israyl; YAHWEH has sent me to you. Yahweh also said to Mosheh: This also shall you say to the children of Israyl; YAHWEH, the Heavenly Father of your fathers, the Mighty One of Abraham, the Mighty One of Isaac, and the Mighty One of Yaaqob, has sent me to you. THIS IS MY NAME FOREVER-- and this is MY MEMORIAL: the Name by which I am to be remembered by, from generation to generation, for all generations."

 

[Hizikyah]

 

[Hizikyah]

Isayah 52:6, "Therefore My people will know My Name; Therefore they will know in that day that I am He Who speaks. Behold, it is I!"

Malakyah 2:2, "If you will not hear, if you will not take this to heart--to give glory to My Name, says Yahweh of hosts: I will send a curse upon you! I will curse your blessings; yes, I have cursed them already, because you do not take this to heart."

In word and deed!

Yahchanan (John) 17:6, "I have manifested; made openly known, Your Name to the men that You gave Me out of the world. They were yours, and You gave them to Me; and they have kept Your Word."

Proverbs 30:4, "Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound up the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name? And what is the Name of His Son? Tell me, if you know!"

 

[Arwen4CJ]

I use the name "Yahweh" on here to refer to God because doing so makes it clearer what/who I'm talking about, especially when talking about the doctrine of the Trinity or Christology. I think the doctrine can be a bit confusing to people if they only see the term "God."

Some people view the term "God," as just a title.

I don't use the term "Yahweh" when praying to God or when talking to other people, generally.

 

[Simona25]

I know we are adopted and can freely come to God, through the blood of Christ. We can call on God, as children to our Father. I personally wouldn't call my father by his first name. This is not to be condemning, quite the contrary. I would love to know, as I see many on here have peace to talk about God using the name Yahweh, why is or isn't it ok in peoples minds. What I had been taught, and thank you all ahead of time for correcting me if I'm wrong, is that in the Hebrew the 4 letter name of God was unpronounceable, and considered to be ineffable. There are legends of people or spirits speaking the name and blasting off into outer space (yes I know, I'm exaggerating). I'm not saying you are wrong if you say it, just curious why you do, if you do, and if you back it up with scripture or just say it cuz you want to or did God tell you it was ok or if anyone has any thoughts that might aid my understanding.

"Yahweh" is not really a proper name, but the name of a divine attribute, the concentration in a single expression (not even a single word) of the specific divine attributes (God reveals Himself, not His first name, because God is above all names that were given to Him).
When we pray, we say "our Father" because this is how Jesus Christ thought us to pray (and not "our Yahweh"). Also, when Jesus Christ was on the cross he said "Eli, Eli, lama sabahtani", and not "Yahweh, Yahweh etc."
In my country, Romania, we say "Dumnezeu" which is the equivalent of "Domine Deus"; we don`t say neither Eli/Elohim nor Yahweh (I never asked myself why...maybe out of respect for God, like you suggested).

P.S.: I see you are from Ishra-El, not Ishra-Yahweh ) - see Daniel 9, 19.

 

[Simona25]

Dani-El...

 

[phil112]

ineffable adj. Incapable of being expressed; indescribable or unutterable.

There are some that refuse to say the name YAHWEH because they call it God's name. It isn't. The word is YHWH, and it cannot be pronounced, but it isn't God's name. We simply don't know it. Why? No one knows why, but I suspect it is because God is incomprehensible to us puny humans. We don't have the capacity to deal with what heaven is. We are told that "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

We have a pretty fantastic imagination, yet we can't even begin to imagine what God is and has waiting for us. I believe that is why we don't know His name. It is too much for us.

Paul told us:

"How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

That is what God's name is to us. Unspeakable as humans, as we haven't yet been translated. It is not lawful for sinful flesh to utter His most righteous name.

 

[Karraster]

I want to know His name. He has put it in my heart to find out.
[h=2]For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.[/h]
What is His name? One source I have found says it is YAHUAH (Father) and YAHUSHA (Son) He says that comes from the ancient Hebrew, not the newer Hebrew. There was no W sound in ancient Hebrew. (Source said this not me, I don't know) At this point I'm not sure, but I won't give up until I am settled in my heart about it. If He has put it in your heart to find out, and I hope He has many who are trying to find out. Surely He will let us find out.

 

[reject-tech]

All ancient hebrew vowels except a few are implied and loose. You can use any vowel sound that doesn't match the specifically defined ones.
Also all letters in YHWH are semivowels themselves. They are not always pronounced with consonantal sounds.
V or W aren't very accurate letters for the original letter.
They were adopted for convenience in articulation, because the original letter is a diaphragmatic interrupt, a pause or stop in breathing.
It's a very artistic part of speech, dropped or changed in almost every language because it requires too much effort for "busy talk"

Take a deep breath with your mouth open and you will hear His name.
It's quite alright to say it as much as you need.

 

[RedTent]

With my 2014 type Greek thinking mind, I am just wonder about the Hebrew mind that says what word we use in important. I know that it is important we don't try to copy God into our material world in any way, for God is spirit and if we try to make physical pictures of that spirit, we are doing wrong. But it is almost impossible for me to take on the mind set that says we may not use but certain physical names for God. Hebrews would say that we must not even type out the words for him.

In my culture, the saying "A rose by any other name is still a rose" is hard for me to get around.

 

[phil112]

........................... Surely He will let us find out.

You will please forgive me, but I had to smile when I read that. Now don't get me wrong as I am not judging your status in His eyes. I am confident you are intent on serving Him, and if we succeed in that endeavor we will meet Him. However, what makes you think that any of us are more privileged than some of the wonderful saints throughout history that asked for that enlightenment, and were denied?

 

[Karraster]

I disagree that He doesn't want His name mentioned. His correct name was in the old texts over 6000 times! It was removed from the original and replaced with generic names. The religious hierarchy did this out of superstition? Or was it something else?

The ancient people knew His name, He spoke it!

Many people don't completely understand the commandment:Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

To "take in vain" is a poor translation. Better said "cast off or throw". And there it is again! Even in the commandment they removed the name we are not supposed to take in vain!!

I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing a problem here, though many more will not see a problem.

 

[Karraster]

You will please forgive me, but I had to smile when I read that. Now don't get me wrong as I am not judging your status in His eyes. I am confident you are intent on serving Him, and if we succeed in that endeavor we will meet Him. However, what makes you think that any of us are more privileged than some of the wonderful saints throughout history that asked for that enlightenment, and were denied?

Ezcuse me? You think they did not know His name? Uh, yeah, they knew his name brother. He spoke it out loud. All the people with Moses heard it!

Because I want to know His name I think I am better? That don't work on me. You can not shame me because I want to know His name. Perhaps you should be wondering why in the world you do not care to know.

I doubt my parents had access to information available today. We are living in the age of going to and fro. Our generation has no excuse like our forefathers did. Your logic is flawed.

 

[Hizikyah]

Ezcuse me? You think they did not know His name? Uh, yeah, they knew his name brother. He spoke it out loud. All the people with Moses heard it!

Because I want to know His name I think I am better? That don't work on me. You can not shame me because I want to know His name. Perhaps you should be wondering why in the world you do not care to know.

I doubt my parents had access to information available today. We are living in the age of going to and fro. Our generation has no excuse like our forefathers did. Your logic is flawed.

Yahshua also made His Fathers NAME known:

Yahchanan (John) 17:6, "I have manifested; made openly known, Your Name to the men that You gave Me out of the world. They were yours, and You gave them to Me; and they have kept Your Word."

 

[Hizikyah]

"Yahweh" is not really a proper name, but the name of a divine attribute, the concentration in a single expression (not even a single word) of the specific divine attributes (God reveals Himself, not His first name, because God is above all names that were given to Him).
When we pray, we say "our Father" because this is how Jesus Christ thought us to pray (and not "our Yahweh"). Also, when Jesus Christ was on the cross he said "Eli, Eli, lama sabahtani", and not "Yahweh, Yahweh etc."
In my country, Romania, we say "Dumnezeu" which is the equivalent of "Domine Deus"; we don`t say neither Eli/Elohim nor Yahweh (I never asked myself why...maybe out of respect for God, like you suggested).

P.S.: I see you are from Ishra-El, not Ishra-Yahweh ) - see Daniel 9, 19.

Many scholars disagree and you will find some on each side of this;

el or yl

I believe yl shaddai meaning strength almighty.

why?

because "e" was not a written letter, so with there could be an "e" sound a hebrew letter could not start with "e"

not elijah but Yliyah

not Daniel but Daniyl

etc

this can not be proven either way but simple principles that I just stated are enough for me. It common sense that a word can not START with a letter that never existed in written Hebrew.

And we can not look to modern Hebrew whatsoever, IM onl talking about pre-vowel point ancient Hebrew

 

[Simona25]

Yahshua also made His Fathers NAME known:

Yahchanan (John) 17:6, "I have manifested; made openly known, Your Name to the men that You gave Me out of the world. They were yours, and You gave them to Me; and they have kept Your Word."

Who "made openly known His name"? Jesus Christ or Moses?

 

[Simona25]

Many scholars disagree and you will find some on each side of this;

el or yl

I believe yl shaddai meaning strength almighty.

why?

because "e" was not a written letter, so with there could be an "e" sound a hebrew letter could not start with "e"

not elijah but Yliyah

not Daniel but Daniyl

etc

this can not be proven either way but simple principles that I just stated are enough for me. It common sense that a word can not START with a letter that never existed in written Hebrew.

And we can not look to modern Hebrew whatsoever, IM onl talking about pre-vowel point ancient Hebrew

The point is: is not the tetragram.

 

[Hizikyah]

Who "made openly known His name"? Jesus Christ or Moses?

That quote is Yahshua the Messiah making Yahweh's Name known

Also Abraham knew it, most translations have a "negative affirmation" translation error in exodus saying otherwise, yet the TRANSLATIONS contridict themselves because all translations have Abraham praying with Yahwhe's Name:

Genesis 12:8 And he went from there to the hill east of Beth El, and he pitched his tent there; Beth El was to the west of him, and Ai was to the east. There he built an altar to Yahweh, and there he prayed with the Name of Yahweh."

Also Adam and Eve knew Yahweh's Name as they were alive when this happened.

Genesis 4:26 And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. It was then that the Name of Yahweh began to be invoked again."

See where Abel died, Yahweh's Name quit being used, when Hebrews went into Egyptian slavery Yahweh's Name quit being used, during the dark ages Yahweh's Name quit being used.

Psalm 22:22, "I will declare Your Name to My brothers! In the midst of the congregation I will give You praise!"

HalleluYAHWEH!