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P
In the 6th chapter of Exodus, in the first 3 verses, God is called 4 different names. Care to explain that?
But all that fruitless meandering aside, why do you not call Isaiah, Isaiah? Why do you say you "will do as Yahweh says"?
Do you reject the new testament?
Do you reject Christ as King and our personal intercessor?
Do you not believe there is no longer literal Jews in Christ's Kingdom, but now we are spiritual Jews?
Why do you spend so much time in the old testament?
Don't you understand the old testament merely pointed the way to the new?
That it is old and decaying?
But all that fruitless meandering aside, why do you not call Isaiah, Isaiah? Why do you say you "will do as Yahweh says"?
Do you reject the new testament?
Do you reject Christ as King and our personal intercessor?
Do you not believe there is no longer literal Jews in Christ's Kingdom, but now we are spiritual Jews?
Why do you spend so much time in the old testament?
Don't you understand the old testament merely pointed the way to the new?
That it is old and decaying?
K
You are not getting it. Names are important. Our Creator was trying to communicate who He is, by all His different names. The generic names have kept people in darkness for centuries. the church fathers had to conceal all His real names, otherwise, people might realize who He is, then their gigs up and we see them for who they are. They are the Nicolaitans.
If you are asking these questions to brother H, then apparently you cannot understand what he wrote either. Quit accusing your brothers and laughing at your sisters and do some serious study of names. You'll be amazed at what you find that you didn't know. If you really want to know, that is.
If you are asking these questions to brother H, then apparently you cannot understand what he wrote either. Quit accusing your brothers and laughing at your sisters and do some serious study of names. You'll be amazed at what you find that you didn't know. If you really want to know, that is.
P
I beg your pardon, but I do get it. I believe His real name to be unknown to us. How do you explain Exodus chapter 6, where in just a couple of verses He is known by 4 names?
For you to assume I have no knowledge or understanding is a bit presumptive. I have a small but select library of credible reference books that I use, but as I have stated, the ultimate authority IS the bible. What we are talking about cannot be definitively proven by God's word, and as such, there is little profit in it. Since the new testament replaced the old, it is much more vital to us than discussion that pre-empts it, wouldn't you agree? Getting all in a dither about the old testament is not what God wants us to be doing. Folks that cling to old testament law, terminology, rules (sabbath, for one), etc., are not doing what Christ wants us to be doing.
For you to assume I have no knowledge or understanding is a bit presumptive. I have a small but select library of credible reference books that I use, but as I have stated, the ultimate authority IS the bible. What we are talking about cannot be definitively proven by God's word, and as such, there is little profit in it. Since the new testament replaced the old, it is much more vital to us than discussion that pre-empts it, wouldn't you agree? Getting all in a dither about the old testament is not what God wants us to be doing. Folks that cling to old testament law, terminology, rules (sabbath, for one), etc., are not doing what Christ wants us to be doing.
In the Old Testament God is assigned with a lot of "names", but none of them is a "proper name", they are more like attributes and works of God. The most common "name" is indeed Yahweh (it appears more than 6000 times in the O.T.). Besides this, there are other names: Yahweh-Savaoth, Yahweh-Elohim, Yahweh-Adonai, Adonai, Yah (abbreviation of Yahweh), Eloah or Elohim, [El-] Shadday = Almighty, etc.
The New Testament does not contain the tetragram and where there are "traces" of the tetragram, they all refer exclusively to Jesus Christ (If someone is curious to see these "traces" I suggest you to pay a visit to the thread opened by "dcontroversal" entitled "Jesus Christ, a name above names").
The New Testament does not contain the tetragram and where there are "traces" of the tetragram, they all refer exclusively to Jesus Christ (If someone is curious to see these "traces" I suggest you to pay a visit to the thread opened by "dcontroversal" entitled "Jesus Christ, a name above names").
This is disproved by the post YOU QUOTED IN THIS RESPONSE, the Scripture in genesis:
Originally Posted by Hizikyah
That quote is Yahshua the Messiah making Yahweh's Name known
I disagree, on a surface level that is like saying since the prophet Isayah spoke the truth Messiah didnt need to, or since Messiah spoke the truth Shaul didnt need to. ON a deeper level we can look at a prophecy of Enoch, 7 crystaly clear instances of a body of water and 7 black instances of a body of water, also in which the 7 lamp lampstand represents.
So Abel invokes the Name of Yahweh, abel is killed and none invoke the Name of Yahweh, and then this happens:
Genesis 4:26 And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. It was then that the Name of Yahweh began to be invoked again."
Now we have Abraham praying with the Name of Yahweh:
Genesis 12:8 And he went from there to the hill east of Beth El, and he pitched his tent there; Beth El was to the west of him, and Ai was to the east. There he built an altar to Yahweh, and there he prayed with the Name of Yahweh."
Yet at 400 years of Egyptian slavery the Hebrew people did not know Yahweh's Name, thus it was revealed to Mosheh:
That quote is Yahshua the Messiah making Yahweh's Name known
I disagree, on a surface level that is like saying since the prophet Isayah spoke the truth Messiah didnt need to, or since Messiah spoke the truth Shaul didnt need to. ON a deeper level we can look at a prophecy of Enoch, 7 crystaly clear instances of a body of water and 7 black instances of a body of water, also in which the 7 lamp lampstand represents.
So Abel invokes the Name of Yahweh, abel is killed and none invoke the Name of Yahweh, and then this happens:
Genesis 4:26 And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. It was then that the Name of Yahweh began to be invoked again."
Now we have Abraham praying with the Name of Yahweh:
Genesis 12:8 And he went from there to the hill east of Beth El, and he pitched his tent there; Beth El was to the west of him, and Ai was to the east. There he built an altar to Yahweh, and there he prayed with the Name of Yahweh."
Yet at 400 years of Egyptian slavery the Hebrew people did not know Yahweh's Name, thus it was revealed to Mosheh:
This is disproved by the post YOU QUOTED IN THIS RESPONSE, the Scripture in genesis:
Originally Posted by Hizikyah
That quote is Yahshua the Messiah making Yahweh's Name known
I disagree, on a surface level that is like saying since the prophet Isayah spoke the truth Messiah didnt need to, or since Messiah spoke the truth Shaul didnt need to. ON a deeper level we can look at a prophecy of Enoch, 7 crystaly clear instances of a body of water and 7 black instances of a body of water, also in which the 7 lamp lampstand represents.
So Abel invokes the Name of Yahweh, abel is killed and none invoke the Name of Yahweh, and then this happens:
Genesis 4:26 And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. It was then that the Name of Yahweh began to be invoked again."
Now we have Abraham praying with the Name of Yahweh:
Genesis 12:8 And he went from there to the hill east of Beth El, and he pitched his tent there; Beth El was to the west of him, and Ai was to the east. There he built an altar to Yahweh, and there he prayed with the Name of Yahweh."
Yet at 400 years of Egyptian slavery the Hebrew people did not know Yahweh's Name, thus it was revealed to Mosheh:
That quote is Yahshua the Messiah making Yahweh's Name known
I disagree, on a surface level that is like saying since the prophet Isayah spoke the truth Messiah didnt need to, or since Messiah spoke the truth Shaul didnt need to. ON a deeper level we can look at a prophecy of Enoch, 7 crystaly clear instances of a body of water and 7 black instances of a body of water, also in which the 7 lamp lampstand represents.
So Abel invokes the Name of Yahweh, abel is killed and none invoke the Name of Yahweh, and then this happens:
Genesis 4:26 And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. It was then that the Name of Yahweh began to be invoked again."
Now we have Abraham praying with the Name of Yahweh:
Genesis 12:8 And he went from there to the hill east of Beth El, and he pitched his tent there; Beth El was to the west of him, and Ai was to the east. There he built an altar to Yahweh, and there he prayed with the Name of Yahweh."
Yet at 400 years of Egyptian slavery the Hebrew people did not know Yahweh's Name, thus it was revealed to Mosheh:
Exodus 6,3:
I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as El-Shaddai—‘God Almighty’[a]—but I did not reveal my name, Yahweh, to them.
So it literally says they used Yahweh's Name, in genesis 4:26,
Genesis 4:26 And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. It was then that the Name of Yahweh began to be invoked again."
Exodus 6:3, "I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Yaaqob as Yl Shaddai; Almighty Strength, but by MY NAME YAHWEH, was I not known to them?"
also Exodus is mistranslated it is a negative affirmation, by my Name was I not know to them, as if Abraham did not know Yahweh's Name, how did he pray with it?
Genesis 12:8 And he went from there to the hill east of Beth El, and he pitched his tent there; Beth El was to the west of him, and Ai was to the east. There he built an altar to Yahweh, and there he prayed with the Name of Yahweh."
In every original Hebrew text Abraham prays with the Name of Yahweh.
"but by MY NAME YAHWEH, was I not known to them?"
"he prayed with the Name of Yahweh"
How can Abraham pray with the Name of Yahweh if he didnt know it?
Unless the text doesnt mean what it says?
Genesis 4:26 And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. It was then that the Name of Yahweh began to be invoked again."
Exodus 6:3, "I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Yaaqob as Yl Shaddai; Almighty Strength, but by MY NAME YAHWEH, was I not known to them?"
also Exodus is mistranslated it is a negative affirmation, by my Name was I not know to them, as if Abraham did not know Yahweh's Name, how did he pray with it?
Genesis 12:8 And he went from there to the hill east of Beth El, and he pitched his tent there; Beth El was to the west of him, and Ai was to the east. There he built an altar to Yahweh, and there he prayed with the Name of Yahweh."
In every original Hebrew text Abraham prays with the Name of Yahweh.
"but by MY NAME YAHWEH, was I not known to them?"
"he prayed with the Name of Yahweh"
How can Abraham pray with the Name of Yahweh if he didnt know it?
Unless the text doesnt mean what it says?
K
IMO saying Moses inserted anything into scripture, or saying just because it says that doesn't mean it happened, is like saying Genesis is not scripture. It doesn't matter who held the pen. God wrote scripture, whether you say he breathed it or inspired it or whatever, it was the Holy Spirit, not Moses. Otherwise you could say, you know, just because it says Jesus was ressurrected doesn't mean it happened. This is a common arguement in secular venues. Just sayin.
Also, the fact that the NT doesn't contain the tetragrammaton (meaning "four letter name"), doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't accept that as being the name of God. There were laws that the name of God could not be erased. You were not supposed to write it on just anything. Since people in the early church didn't know if they would go a week without getting martyred, it made sense not to go writting it on their papers. This is why you will sometimes see people write G-d, as if taking the o out of the word helps them to reverence the name of God which is silly, because as brother Hizikyah noted so elloquently, "God" is not the name of our Lord, YHWH. Also, saying Yahweh-Elohim (elohim =god) is not "proper", is like saying Obama-our president (unfortunately) is improper. One of my favorite of these comes from Jeremiah, YHWH-sidqenu, or Yahweh-our rightousness.
Also, the fact that the NT doesn't contain the tetragrammaton (meaning "four letter name"), doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't accept that as being the name of God. There were laws that the name of God could not be erased. You were not supposed to write it on just anything. Since people in the early church didn't know if they would go a week without getting martyred, it made sense not to go writting it on their papers. This is why you will sometimes see people write G-d, as if taking the o out of the word helps them to reverence the name of God which is silly, because as brother Hizikyah noted so elloquently, "God" is not the name of our Lord, YHWH. Also, saying Yahweh-Elohim (elohim =god) is not "proper", is like saying Obama-our president (unfortunately) is improper. One of my favorite of these comes from Jeremiah, YHWH-sidqenu, or Yahweh-our rightousness.
What I ment to say was that when Moses was writing the Pentateuch (inspired by God), the "name" Yahweh has already been revealed to him on the mountain Sinai, by God; so, it`s clearly that the most frequent "name" that Moses have used when writing the books of Pentateuch, was Yahweh. But, since it was Moses that got the revelation of Yahweh, and since he wasn`t a contemporary of Adam, the fact that Moses wrote in Genesis 4,26: "the men began to call upon the name of Yahweh", does not necessarely imply that people called God Yahweh (they called Him otherwise). I believe the use of the word Yahweh, by Moses, in Genesis, is anachronical. In Exodus 6,3 God says that He revealed Himself to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as El-Shaddai, but not as Yahweh.
Traces of the tetragrammaton YHWH appear in the N.T. in Jesus Christ`s name (Yeshua ="Yahweh is salvation").
Yahweh is not the proper name of God, because God is not to be compared with me, or you, or Barack Obama. God is not determined by names and definitions, He is above everything, He is limitless and no definition can reflect accurately what He is.
When Moses asked God`s name, He answered: "I am that I am"; also, when Jacob asked His name, God refused to give it to him. God refuses to give Himself a name; He has been called a lot of names but none of them can reveal His entire greatness.
Traces of the tetragrammaton YHWH appear in the N.T. in Jesus Christ`s name (Yeshua ="Yahweh is salvation").
Yahweh is not the proper name of God, because God is not to be compared with me, or you, or Barack Obama. God is not determined by names and definitions, He is above everything, He is limitless and no definition can reflect accurately what He is.
When Moses asked God`s name, He answered: "I am that I am"; also, when Jacob asked His name, God refused to give it to him. God refuses to give Himself a name; He has been called a lot of names but none of them can reveal His entire greatness.
K
ok, someone already said this, so if I'm repeating or misquoting someone, I apologize. When it says in Exodus, which I don't know what version you're using, but it says "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.'' There are versions that say "I was not" and versions that say, "was I not". There's a big difference there. You can claim that Moses just stuck it in there, the term for which is prolepsis, or 'in anticipation'. Or you could say that it is a poetic use of language common to scripture.
Be careful, on another note, about Mary. She should not have any more reverence than your Earthly mother. I myself am guilty of having worshiped the Queen of Heaven. One of the more embarrassing sins, because I would not have ever suspected myself to be an idolator. Talking to Mary is one of those things that is not always bad, Mary is the mother of our Savior, but Jesus himself said 'My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it." in Luke 8:21. I'm sure if Jesus had specific instructions for putting Mary up on the level of the goddess of the surrounding area, I'm sure he would have mentioned something of that to John, and he may have, I'm not staying in implication land. So yeah, at least in Roman tradition there was an obscure rule about not honoring Mary without mentioning Christ. To my mind, as many pagan traditions include the goddess giving birth to god, theotokos as a NAME (how ironic) of Mary, leaves a little too much to the imagination.
Also, God can't anthropomorphize himself, if he says his name is YHWH, that's what it is.
Be careful, on another note, about Mary. She should not have any more reverence than your Earthly mother. I myself am guilty of having worshiped the Queen of Heaven. One of the more embarrassing sins, because I would not have ever suspected myself to be an idolator. Talking to Mary is one of those things that is not always bad, Mary is the mother of our Savior, but Jesus himself said 'My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it." in Luke 8:21. I'm sure if Jesus had specific instructions for putting Mary up on the level of the goddess of the surrounding area, I'm sure he would have mentioned something of that to John, and he may have, I'm not staying in implication land. So yeah, at least in Roman tradition there was an obscure rule about not honoring Mary without mentioning Christ. To my mind, as many pagan traditions include the goddess giving birth to god, theotokos as a NAME (how ironic) of Mary, leaves a little too much to the imagination.
Also, God can't anthropomorphize himself, if he says his name is YHWH, that's what it is.
K
I've been doing some digging. Why it's took me this long? Heaven knows.
I know this. Satan's name has not changed, and is it any wonder? he is the prince of this world. he set about to change everything about the Almighty, to sit on the throne of Almighty. The prophecy about latter rain keeps whispering in my ear, the age of knowledge.
What does Scripture say will happen in the end-time?
* "For I will take from her mouth the name of the Baals, and they shall be remembered by their name no more," Hosea 2:17. the name Baal became a title later on, but most commentators and scholars reveal its origin: the Sun-deity.
* "O Yahúweh ... the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make The Mighty One for himself, which are not The Mighty One? Therefore behold, I will this once cause them to know My hand and My might; and they shall know that My Name is Yahúweh ," Jer. 16:19-21.
* "Therefore My people shall know My Name," Isa. 52:6.
* "For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language, that they all may call on the Name of Yahúweh ," Zeph. 3:9.
* "'It shall be in that day', says Yahúweh of hosts, 'that I will cut off the names of the idols ...."Zech. 13:2.
* "They will call on My Name and I will answer them. I will say, 'This is My people'; and each will say, 'Yahúweh is my The Mighty One,'" Zech. 13:9.
* "And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the Name of Yahúweh shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, as Yahúweh has said, among the remnant whom Yahúweh calls," Joel 2:32.
* "For I will make My Separated Name known in the midst of My people Israel," Eze. 39:7.
* "If we had forgotten the Name of our The Mighty One, or stretched out our hands to a foreign The Mighty One, would not The Mighty One sear this out?" Psalm 44:20-21.
* "Fill their faces with shame, that they may seek Your Name O Yahúweh ... That men may know that You Whose Name alone is Yahúweh , are the Most High over all the earth," Psalm 83:16-18.
* Has our Messiah not clearly stated in John 17:26b that He will make His Father's Name known to us? Are we allowing Him, Who works in us, to do this work of restitution, of restoring, or giving us pure lips, "a pure language, that they all may call on the Name of Yahúweh " ? Zeph. 3:9.
I know this. Satan's name has not changed, and is it any wonder? he is the prince of this world. he set about to change everything about the Almighty, to sit on the throne of Almighty. The prophecy about latter rain keeps whispering in my ear, the age of knowledge.
What does Scripture say will happen in the end-time?
* "For I will take from her mouth the name of the Baals, and they shall be remembered by their name no more," Hosea 2:17. the name Baal became a title later on, but most commentators and scholars reveal its origin: the Sun-deity.
* "O Yahúweh ... the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make The Mighty One for himself, which are not The Mighty One? Therefore behold, I will this once cause them to know My hand and My might; and they shall know that My Name is Yahúweh ," Jer. 16:19-21.
* "Therefore My people shall know My Name," Isa. 52:6.
* "For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language, that they all may call on the Name of Yahúweh ," Zeph. 3:9.
* "'It shall be in that day', says Yahúweh of hosts, 'that I will cut off the names of the idols ...."Zech. 13:2.
* "They will call on My Name and I will answer them. I will say, 'This is My people'; and each will say, 'Yahúweh is my The Mighty One,'" Zech. 13:9.
* "And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the Name of Yahúweh shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, as Yahúweh has said, among the remnant whom Yahúweh calls," Joel 2:32.
* "For I will make My Separated Name known in the midst of My people Israel," Eze. 39:7.
* "If we had forgotten the Name of our The Mighty One, or stretched out our hands to a foreign The Mighty One, would not The Mighty One sear this out?" Psalm 44:20-21.
* "Fill their faces with shame, that they may seek Your Name O Yahúweh ... That men may know that You Whose Name alone is Yahúweh , are the Most High over all the earth," Psalm 83:16-18.
* Has our Messiah not clearly stated in John 17:26b that He will make His Father's Name known to us? Are we allowing Him, Who works in us, to do this work of restitution, of restoring, or giving us pure lips, "a pure language, that they all may call on the Name of Yahúweh " ? Zeph. 3:9.
I am using two different versions of the Bible: one is the King James version (I use it for the english language), and the other one is a translation of the Septuagint in my language (romanian). In both versions that I mentioned it says "I was not". Only in Hizikyah`s version says "was I not?".
I don`t remember when the archangel Gabriel came to make reverences to my mother, but I do remember that he made reverences to Mary, the one that bare God in her whomb. But, wait, you don`t believe that she gave birth to God the Word...
I don`t think that Jesus Christ`s mission and message should be understood in an apologetic key...
We don`t honor Saint Mary without mentioning Christ. When we say Theotokos (which, how ironic, isn`t a proper name, but a sintagm that means "mother of God"; not progenitor of God, but vessel of God), so, when we say Theotokos, Jesus Christ is implied by the word "theos".
I know that the Jehovah Witnessers teach that emphasized lie and heresy, that God can not "anthropomorphize himself"; but, guess what? Not only God can do whatever He wants (because He`s God allpowerful), but He already "anthropomorphised" Himself (what a challenging spelling
), taking the human body and nature of Jesus Christ.
I don`t remember when the archangel Gabriel came to make reverences to my mother, but I do remember that he made reverences to Mary, the one that bare God in her whomb. But, wait, you don`t believe that she gave birth to God the Word...
I don`t think that Jesus Christ`s mission and message should be understood in an apologetic key...
We don`t honor Saint Mary without mentioning Christ. When we say Theotokos (which, how ironic, isn`t a proper name, but a sintagm that means "mother of God"; not progenitor of God, but vessel of God), so, when we say Theotokos, Jesus Christ is implied by the word "theos".
I know that the Jehovah Witnessers teach that emphasized lie and heresy, that God can not "anthropomorphize himself"; but, guess what? Not only God can do whatever He wants (because He`s God allpowerful), but He already "anthropomorphised" Himself (what a challenging spelling
), taking the human body and nature of Jesus Christ.