What does it mean to say salvation is not of yourself?

[Bookends]

Revelation 5:9

And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;


Revelation 5:12
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.



I can rejoice knowing that it is not of my own works or my own accord that I have been saved. That I can rest in His grace, knowing that He has overcome it all.

Is simply really. God did 100% of the work, God sent Jesus. Jesus is the gift and was sinless and acceptable to God. Jesus, willing to die in our place and be the propitiation place for our sins. He imputed His righteous onto us who believe by faith and place our sin on Himself and receive God wrath on our behalf. All we have to do is receive it or reject it.

Receiving a free gift is not a work. If my mother decides to give me a new car, she did the work to earn the money, she bought the car with her own earnings and simply gave it to me. I could be proud and tell her I can take care of myself and reject that gift or I can free except it and be grateful. If I receive it, I still did nothing to get it or earn it.

Calvinists are the ones IMO who want to make it complicated.

 

[Bookends]

Is simply really. God did 100% of the work, God sent Jesus. Jesus is the gift and was sinless and acceptable to God. Jesus, willing to die in our place and be the propitiation place for our sins. He imputed His righteous onto us who believe by faith and place our sin on Himself and receive God wrath on our behalf. All we have to do is receive it or reject it.

Receiving a free gift is not a work. If my mother decides to give me a new car, she did the work to earn the money, she bought the car with her own earnings and simply gave it to me. I could be proud and tell her I can take care of myself and reject that gift or I can free except it and be grateful. If I receive it, I still did nothing to get it or earn it.

Calvinists are the ones IMO who want to make it complicated.

I meant to have quoted the OP, not Rachel20, sorry.

 

[Elin]

God caused us to repent by sending Jesus. We heard the gospel and repented.

Agreed. . .it is not something we do on our own.

We respond on our own:

"...it pleased by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." 1 Co.1:21

Faith is a gift (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3), it is not "on our own."

Repentance is a gift (2Tim 2:25; Ac 11:18, 5:31), it is not "on our own."

We do not repond with faith and repentance "on our own."

 

[Patnubay]

if man has no role in his own salvation then how does God determine who He will or will not save?

Very intriguing question...

 

[notuptome]

Faith is a gift (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3), it is not "on our own."

Repentance is a gift (2Tim 2:25; Ac 11:18, 5:31), it is not "on our own."

We do not repond with faith and repentance "on our own."

It is the goodness of God that leadeth men to repentance.

God has concluded all in unbelief that He might have mercy upon all. Ever get the idea that men just do not like a level playing field?

John 3:18-21

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Very intriguing question...

The whosoever wills. John 3:16

God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Elin]

Men are taught, hear and learn the word of God, and it
by that hearing men have faith. So the drawing is nothing magical or irresistible. The result of God drawing is "cometh unto Me"
man of his free will comes to God.

God draws, we come.

Which is no way contradicts the power of God at work, and not man doing it of his own ability.

By which statement fails to admit that those verses are part of Scripture and thus, true.
At least give the impression of accepting all of Scripture, as though harmonizing.

Your methodology reveals your religious persuasion.

Are you unaware that, although Scripture is always true,

one's use of it may not be true, which is much too often your case?

There is nothing to harmonize here, for what you present does not disagree with what I have stated.

 

[Patnubay]

So God owes you an explanation of how he makes his determination?

Well, your question is answered: the same way he determined to choose Jacob and not Esau;
i.e., by his sovereign choice, for his own purposes.

My confusion answered. Thank you.

 

[Elin]

God sends prophets to people who have no ability to repent. How ludicrous is that idea?

As ludicrous as Lk 8:10; Mt 13:15.

God's truth is not measured by man's notion of what is ludicrous.

Human reasoning is the standard by which you measure the word of God,
which explains why you misunderstand so much of it.

 

[Elin]

¶Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: Mk.11:20

Jesus wont give people the ability to repent...and then chastises people for not repenting???

Agreed. . .if they did not repent, he had not given them the ability.
Those who do repent, the Holy Spirit has given the ability.

Hello...is anybody home?

Yes, Lk 8:10, Mt 13:15 are home.

 

[Elin]

.... It is an outright insult to God for man to claim any cooperation in his salvation....

This is the most disgusting, vile, contemptible belief toward God that has ever existed on earth.

Second only to the anti-gospel belief that we save ourselves.

 

[Elin]

Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven,
that one of these little ones should perish. Mt.18:14

Then not one of those little ones will perish. God's will is done.

Is there anyone here who doesn't understand the idea that
after hearing the gospel, people decide whether they are going to believe it or not?

Which does not alter the fact that faith is a gift (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:37; Ro 12:30)
it's not something we do in our own power.

 

[jdbear]

Faith is a gift (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3), it is not "on our own."

Repentance is a gift (2Tim 2:25; Ac 11:18, 5:31), it is not "on our own."

We do not repond with faith and repentance "on our own."

On belief:
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; Philipians 1:29

So, "for the sake of Christ", Paul is drawing a conclusion from a previous statement. Here's his statement:

And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. Philipians1:28

His instruction is for believers to respond appropriately to suffering (ie: dont be afraid) as they did for salvation (ie: with faith). In other words, God gave Christ for faith:

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1 Pe.1:21

On repentance:
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventurewill give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 2 Tim.2:25

In other words, present the gospel properly so that God may touch their hearts.

" ...that they may recover themselves..." vs.26

Sis, should we go through everyone of the verses you cited?

 

[jdbear]

As ludicrous as Lk 8:10; Mt 13:15.

God's truth is not measured by man's notion of what is ludicrous.

Human reasoning is the standard by which you measure the word of God,
which explains why you misunderstand so much of it.

I see. Only respond to objections by quoting scripture you think counters it. Never actually address what someone says.

 

[jdbear]

Then not one of those little ones will perish. God's will is done.

And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. Mk.9:42

You better let Jesus know that it's impossible to cause a child not to believe in Him.

Originally posted by Elin,
Which does not alter the fact that faith is a gift (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:37; Ro 12:30)
it's not something we do in our own power.

Do you want to go through these?

 

[jdbear]

Second only to the anti-gospel belief that we save ourselves.

I don't serve a God who won't allow people to repent. Thats your god. My God desires that all come to repentance.

 

[notuptome]

I don't serve a God who won't allow people to repent. That's your god.

Well there must be a glitch in the communications here. I don't know of anyone saying God Who is God won't allow someone to repent.

It is men who say no to God and then go about to change God into someone whom they like better. Romans 1 talks of this kind.

John 3:18-21 tells us why some believe and some won't. No such thing as an honest doubter.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[jdbear]

Well there must be a glitch in the communications here. I don't know of anyone saying God Who is God won't allow someone to repent.
For the cause of Christ
Roger

Do you believe God grants some people the ability to believe in Him and withholds it from others?

 

[notuptome]

Do you believe God grants some people the ability to believe in Him and withholds it from others?

If you read John 3:18-21 you will see the problem is with man and not with God. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Jesus said that He often would have gathered the children of Jerusalem as a hen gathers her chicks but they would not.

Man cannot place blame on God if man rejects the grace of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[jdbear]

If you read John 3:18-21 you will see the problem is with man and not with God. God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Jesus said that He often would have gathered the children of Jerusalem as a hen gathers her chicks but they would not.

Man cannot place blame on God if man rejects the grace of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I agree. So you don't believe that God withholds the ability to repent from anyone...right?