What does it mean to say salvation is not of yourself?

[SeaBass]

We cannot here on earth get an exact answer to the question "why some before others"...but we can rely on the fact that God is perfectly just and good and does everything according to His righteous purposes.

I repost what I posted earlier:


Jer 18:8,10 shows me the basis as to why God has mercy upon some and not others. Just because Calvinism/man made theologies leaves them in the dark on this issue does not leave me in the dark on this issue.

It's impossible for God to lie, Heb 6:18 so God's promise to save the obedient (Heb 5:9) and condemn those that obey not (2 Thess 1:8) are two promises we KNOW with CERTAINTY..

God's revealed word explains those that obey God are the ones that will be saved, Rom 6:16, the one's that work righteousness are the one's accepted with God, Act 10:35. People's man made faith only theology may blind them but does not blind me to this simple bible truth. Certain theologies as Calvinism has God playing the part of the blind man in the dark basement trying to separate black marbles from the white ones. Calvinism is left with a gaping black hole in its theology not being able to explain why some are saved and others are not, even though the bible clearly tells us why.

 

[SeaBass]

His problem is the following...

He trusts in his own abilities and works and his COC unscriptural immersion...I.E. a watered down pseudo salvation based upon works of righteousness which he has done while failing to understand the perfect faith of Christ, the completed work of Christ and the complete salvation of the SPIRIT which does not sin, cannot sin and is eternally sealed in Christ by the prepayment of our salvation I.E. the Holy Spirit and the sealing which comes from genuine faith and not some pseudo faith which has no power to save whatsoever at all!

1 Jn 3:10 "...whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God...."

Is anyone saved BEFORE they do righteous works?

 

[notuptome]

Better change your screen name to itsuptome.

So you are struggling with election. Well its not up to me its up to you. Choose you this day whom you will serve as for me and my house we will serve the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

And it's just inexplicable, at least to me. What pride can one have who realizes the Creator of the universe? It really is a question, just to consider the love of our Lord Jesus,

Hebrews 2:6 But one in a certain place [Psalms 8, 111] testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?

What fool creature, hanging around a few decades, can believe they have anything to impress holy, holy, holy God from eternity? Can so denigrate the work and blood of Jesus Christ that they feel they must add to His work, that the Creator of the universe needs their help? That anybody else needs their help? They have something to offer the One who can divide asunder the soul and spirit of man, when some can't get through the day, without slandering people of faith who actually understand New Testament Christianity?

It's utter folly. And I have no idea where these people are coming from, as, and have mentioned this before, I've never been through the doors of a Protestant, Bible believing church in my entire life where this Hebrew roots, Jew-lite garbage is taught. Everybody knows this was resolved in the first century, but this cult stuff seems to be what half of the CC people are about.

Was Naaman trying to earn his healing by dipping in the river?
Was Noah trying to earn the saving of his house by working to build the ark?

Was either trying to impress God by their obeying God's commands?

If one does not obey and work the commands God has given how can it be said that person loves God. How can one call Jesus "Lord" and not do the things Christ says, Lk 6:46?


The gross misunderstanding that floats around this forum is by those that do not have an understanding of works and wrongly think that if one does any work then he is trying to earn his salvation. This error is what gives birth to more error as 'faith only'.

 

[dcontroversal]

1 Jn 3:10 "...whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God...."

Is anyone saved BEFORE they do righteous works?

Was Peter saved when he

1. Denied the Lord three times? YES
2. Got rebuked by Paul for his hypocrisy? YES

Was PAUL saved when he wrote under inspiration that he was the NUMBER ONE CHIEF SINNER AMONG MEN...YES

DUDE you can forget it...YOUR COC doctrine will lead you to hell as WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS DO NOT SAVE....NEITHER DOES YOUR COC immersion!

SO....keep trusting in your works, immersion and CAMPBELLITE doctrine!

 

[elf3]

I have a question of what makes us think that we can save ourselves? Was the Work of Jesus not enough? And why do we have a problem with God having an "elect" when in the OT Israel was God's elect and we are ok with that? Since we are now under the New Covenant can God not have an elect anymore? Do we really believe in the Sovereignty of God or do we only believe it when it fits our need or desire?

Just a few thoughts.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I have a question of what makes us think that we can save ourselves? Was the Work of Jesus not enough? And why do we have a problem with God having an "elect" when in the OT Israel was God's elect and we are ok with that? Since we are now under the New Covenant can God not have an elect anymore? Do we really believe in the Sovereignty of God or do we only believe it when it fits our need or desire?

Just a few thoughts.

We do not save ourselves.
The Lord Jesus Christ saves us.
The thing is that following and doing what Christ said goes hand and hand with salvation.
We are not saying you have to earn salvation, what we are saying is that when Jesus says in scripture that those who are His sheep will obey Him and do His commandments, and those who don't are not His. Because we do them out of love for the Lord.

Jesus commanded repentance in Luke 13:3, He commanded baptism in Matthew 28 and Mark 16:16, He commanded confession in Matthew 10:32 and Luke 12:8, and He said to do for others in need or you deny Him in Matthew 25:31-46.

So because I love the Lord my God with all my heart, soul, and mind I have repented of my sins, been baptized, always confess Him as my Lord before others, help others in need if I am able to, and also forgive others of their sins as He also said to do. He is my Lord and Savior and I will never treat what He said as not important or needed.


For others who say His teachings are not important or needed, Jesus says this to you;

Luke 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

 

[elf3]

We do not save ourselves.
The Lord Jesus Christ saves us.
The thing is that following and doing what Christ said goes hand and hand with salvation.
We are not saying you have to earn salvation, what we are saying is that when Jesus says in scripture that those who are His sheep will obey Him and do His commandments, and those who don't are not His. Because we do them out of love for the Lord.

Jesus commanded repentance in Luke 13:3, He commanded baptism in Matthew 28 and Mark 16:16, He commanded confession in Matthew 10:32 and Luke 12:8, and He said to do for others in need or you deny Him in Matthew 25:31-46.

So because I love the Lord my God with all my heart, soul, and mind I have repented of my sins, been baptized, always confess Him as my Lord before others, help others in need if I am able to, and also forgive others of their sins as He also said to do. He is my Lord and Savior and I will never treat what He said as not important or needed.


For others who say His teachings are not important or needed, Jesus says this to you;

Luke 6:46
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Exactly! Because we follow Christ we will do these things but they don't save us. Because we love God our faith will be shown in our works but we aren't saved by them.

Now the other question (which I believe in) is the elect. Why do we agree with God electing Israel but when it comes to the New Covenant we have a problem with it? Now this doesnt negate our creature responsibility of spreading God's Word but why do we disregard God's Sovereign Will when it comes to this subject?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Exactly! Because we follow Christ we will do these things but they don't save us. Because we love God our faith will be shown in our works but we aren't saved by them.

Now the other question (which I believe in) is the elect. Why do we agree with God electing Israel but when it comes to the New Covenant we have a problem with it? Now this doesnt negate our creature responsibility of spreading God's Word but why do we disregard God's Sovereign Will when it comes to this subject?

I am just starting to study on the subject of the elect.
Because in some understanding this would mean that some believers are held in a special position that other believers aren't.
And to me there are the scriptures that say there is no difference between Jew or Greek ( gentile ) now, and that God shows no personal favoritism. Yet we still read of the 144,000 that come back with the Lord in Revelation, and as I would love to be one of those 144,000 I know I will not for I am not from one of the twelve Jewish tribes.

 

[elf3]

I will have to post the passages tomorrow where the elect are mentioned in the Bible I am thinking about.

 

[elf3]

Well if I still have phone service that is. If not I'll explain when I can get back on.

 

[tribesman]

Arbitrary salvation for no apparent reason? Pure evil and a slander of God.

Nothing arbitrary in there. I am talking about facts from the Word of God. And reason, you say? Well, maybe for your reason the Word of God does not make the "sense" you think it should make to have it fit in with your logic. Fact is: God choose the nation of Israel before all other nations...He excluded the pagan nations from His sovereign choice and choose Israel only. Does that make God arbitrary choosing some above others for no reason? Fact again: millions of people will die not hearing the gospel. Does that make God arbitrary in not choosing them to hear the gospel? According to your logic it must be so. As me and others see it, it's a theological "problem" which we have no exact answer to here and now. I repeat, we do not have all the answers as to the "why" and "why not" in this regard. As scripture is silent about that. That has nothing to do with slandering God for arbitrary doing anything. That line of thinking comes from nowhere else than your own faulty "logic" which must press in God into your own rational "understanding". So, your accusation of slandering God falls back to yourself coming to the end that you reject God's record about the matter. Sad turn, pal. Hope you go it better.

 

[tribesman]

Was Peter saved when he

1. Denied the Lord three times? YES
2. Got rebuked by Paul for his hypocrisy? YES

Was PAUL saved when he wrote under inspiration that he was the NUMBER ONE CHIEF SINNER AMONG MEN...YES

DUDE you can forget it...YOUR COC doctrine will lead you to hell as WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS DO NOT SAVE....NEITHER DOES YOUR COC immersion!

SO....keep trusting in your works, immersion and CAMPBELLITE doctrine!

Some people cannot just accept that God is the author and finisher of our salvation. Period. To their thinking it HAS to be THEM in it..at least at some part...else God is unfair etc. Missing out the ONLY thing that counts: God's righteousness. This sort of pride is devastating as it goofs out on the very most crucial matter of them all.

 

[mailmandan]

Some people cannot just accept that God is the author and finisher of our salvation. Period. To their thinking it HAS to be THEM in it..at least at some part...else God is unfair etc. Missing out the ONLY thing that counts: God's righteousness. This sort of pride is devastating as it goofs out on the very most crucial matter of them all.

Until those people get to the end of the creature they will not get to the beginning of the Creator.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Some people cannot just accept that God is the author and finisher of our salvation. Period. To their thinking it HAS to be THEM in it..at least at some part...else God is unfair etc. Missing out the ONLY thing that counts: God's righteousness. This sort of pride is devastating as it goofs out on the very most crucial matter of them all.

Until those people get to the end of the creature they will not get to the beginning of the Creator.

Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?


When are people going to realize that doing what the Lord told us to do out of love for Him work hand and hand with that salvation ?

 

[elf3]

[/COLOR][/B]When are people going to realize that doing what the Lord told us to do out of love for Him work hand and hand with that salvation ?[/QUOTE]

Only once we lose our pride will we realize that only the blood of Christ can save us.

 

[kennethcadwell]

[/COLOR][/B]When are people going to realize that doing what the Lord told us to do out of love for Him work hand and hand with that salvation ?

Only once we lose our pride will we realize that only the blood of Christ can save us.[/QUOTE]

John 10:27-28
[SUP]27 [/SUP]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[elf3]

It's a shame that we think so highly of ourselves as a creation that we can save ourselves. If it wasn't for God's grace would we ever turn to God...nope. Then why do we need to think we can work at our Salvation. Again we think too highly of ourselves.

 

[kennethcadwell]

It's a shame that we think so highly of ourselves as a creation that we can save ourselves. If it wasn't for God's grace would we ever turn to God...nope. Then why do we need to think we can work at our Salvation. Again we think too highly of ourselves.

Earning salvation is not something we can do.
Being obedient to our Lord out of love for Him is something we can do.

The thing that gets me is how people will debate with those who believe repentance, baptism, confession, and even forgiving others are important to do. Trying to say we are trying to earn our salvation. We are not we are doing what the Lord told us to do out of love for Him. Plus it gets me how they would refuse to do these things to when our Lord Jesus says that those who believe in Him will do these things, and those who don't do them do not believe in Him.

 

[elf3]

It's almost like a denial thing or a salvation by works. The medium is because we love God is why we do it.