What does the Dead Sea Scrolls mean to Christians?
- Thread starter RedTent
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A
i know all the mysteries , want to know? Do you find yourself not able to wait?
Then wait no longer.....go to: www.abidingknowsallmysteries.com have your credit card ready.
Then wait no longer.....go to: www.abidingknowsallmysteries.com have your credit card ready.
K
You are so right, Tribesman and Nathan. As I said, the claims in cdc's original statement are known to be in the Nag Hammadi texts, and can be documented from at least 200 AD on by other sources. They surface every generation or two with the same type of "I know something I won't tell, because you are all too unwothy".
Specifically, Jesus and Magdalene's descendants are living in France (taken there with the help of Joseph of Arimathea), and Jesus wrote to Abgarus, and communicated certain teachings to His disciples in secret. None of this is true, but is advanced by the writings I have mentioned.
Specifically, Jesus and Magdalene's descendants are living in France (taken there with the help of Joseph of Arimathea), and Jesus wrote to Abgarus, and communicated certain teachings to His disciples in secret. None of this is true, but is advanced by the writings I have mentioned.
K
I know of no one who believes they are inspired. Everyone believes they are historical, and accurate records of a Jewish religious sect.
The conspiracy is for real, and concerns the fact that the Catholics had charge of the orginal copies. They kept delaying publication of many things for several decades. In 1993, scholarly complaints caused the University of California to break its contractual promise, and release a microfilm backup of the texts. In less than 10 years, the copper scroll, the urim/thummim, the prophecy of the wheel, and goodness knows what else that is revolutionary to Christianity as we know it, was in print in English, and now it is available in Hebrew on internet. The Catholic story is that it was too early to be certain that the scraps had been sorted correctly, etc., but I think most scholars believe in a Catholic hidden agenda over two or three of the documents.
It is unrelated to the conspiracy in the DaVinci code, which is more about the controversy that cdc is claiming knowledge about, and I just responded to a few minutes ago. There is no reason to believe what cdc says, that there are yet more scrolls. The microfilm backup at UC was complete.
The conspiracy is for real, and concerns the fact that the Catholics had charge of the orginal copies. They kept delaying publication of many things for several decades. In 1993, scholarly complaints caused the University of California to break its contractual promise, and release a microfilm backup of the texts. In less than 10 years, the copper scroll, the urim/thummim, the prophecy of the wheel, and goodness knows what else that is revolutionary to Christianity as we know it, was in print in English, and now it is available in Hebrew on internet. The Catholic story is that it was too early to be certain that the scraps had been sorted correctly, etc., but I think most scholars believe in a Catholic hidden agenda over two or three of the documents.
It is unrelated to the conspiracy in the DaVinci code, which is more about the controversy that cdc is claiming knowledge about, and I just responded to a few minutes ago. There is no reason to believe what cdc says, that there are yet more scrolls. The microfilm backup at UC was complete.
T
Kenisyes, you're a great foundation of knowledge. Where do you learn all of these interesting things? (the Internet, various books? Any recommendations? - not just regarding the scrolls but the godly powers and also the science behind ghosts etc.) They're not exactly things you'd learn in theology courses. You've stretched my mind and in some cases, helped confirm understandings I had entertained. So thanks!
K
Tintin, back in the day, we did not have internet. I used to hang around the public library. I always had an interest in the things of God. I have a high IQ, and some "gifts" not everyone has. So everything came together to learn from on whatever topic. Internet makes it faster, but it is not arranged topically, so one does not know what to Google. Also, internet is not "refereed", as are book, so there is no way to know for certain what is made up and what is true. You are welcome to go to my website and start exploring whatever I have written, and then just start Googling new terms as you meet them.
K
NObody seems to realize it's in my bio. My name is Ken Behrens
,,,i also would suggest it,,i have read thru it several times. there are papers ken wrote in the 80's pertaining to the Rhine papyrus,Babylonian 60's(ancient mathematics) ect. you may find very interesting that is in the copper scroll you are discussing is a series of Egyptian numerals very similar to the Babylonian 60's style of mathematics. this as he has it tied to the Moscow manuscripts should prove interesting as to pertaining to the "copper scroll,dss" the Egyptian form as i stated seems to be the form of numbering system used by the writers in the copper scroll.
it seems odd to me looking at the copper scroll,that is it in in essence a "treasure map" giving the location of wealth. so how did those dwelling in the dead sea area come to be in possession of it? That is if it is an inventory of the gold,silver ect. kept in the temple in Jerusalem,why would those from the area of the dead sea have access to it and not priest from the temple,officials from Israel ect.?
it may have not been important at the time of the "changing of possession",that is when Babylon was becoming more of a threat to Israel (Isaiah 1;3,,,,Isaiah 11;14 and other scr.) Israel ask Egypt for help instead of god but their military help was of no benefit. so Egypt may have been involved in the removal/hiding of the temple treasures. then after the 70 years (temple was being rebuilt) and these things retrieved.
so then the copper scrolls (if the wealth had been retrieved by this time) were of no value. now to the Jewish faith any writings that contained the name/names of god were sacred and could not be destroyed,maybe things pertaining to the temple of god also were viewed this way. or as we know the copper scrolls were found in the back of the cave and not with the other scrolls(found in the same cave) so they may have been placed there before the others.
the dating of Qumran is probably the key these peoples sealed these manuscripts in the several caves (as if they were in danger/or saved because they could not be destroyed) by July ad70 but the Romans did not declare the dead sea area under control until after the fall of Jerusalem. also in the manuscripts found there is the/a copy of the book of (Revelation?) that is it is a shorter version. but follows very similar wording.
its a curious thing to me that this many people lived in the area of the dead sea and this many manuscripts were hidden/or preserved and not then reclaimed. the Romans must have become such a threat around this time they were afraid these manuscripts would be lost (destroyed by the Romans?) if not hidden. the people then were removed to other parts of the empire?,,killed?,what? but if the intent was to preserve these then knowledge of the whereabouts would have been passed down to others and then reclaimed before 1947.
so if it were to lead to treasure(carnal or spiritual) it would have been reclaimed before 1947. i have read there is another copy of the copper scrolls with additional information,in another location mentioned in the copper scroll. it has never been found (they say),,so/and if it had been found somewhere in history it would have led to the caves at Qumran. so weather it be spiritual or carnal treasure if me and you lived at Qumran and we knew we both would have passed the knowledge to family members or friends.
well i suppose i got off both subjects, my intent was to tell them "do read in ken's website",,i am also old and started my study in the libraries before the internet. something i would add to what ken said about it is this some may not know,,,if you ask the librarian at your local library "books not at your library",,they will borrow from other libraries. so if you cant find the copy you are looking for they will usually have it shipped to your library and you pay the return shipping.
it seems odd to me looking at the copper scroll,that is it in in essence a "treasure map" giving the location of wealth. so how did those dwelling in the dead sea area come to be in possession of it? That is if it is an inventory of the gold,silver ect. kept in the temple in Jerusalem,why would those from the area of the dead sea have access to it and not priest from the temple,officials from Israel ect.?
it may have not been important at the time of the "changing of possession",that is when Babylon was becoming more of a threat to Israel (Isaiah 1;3,,,,Isaiah 11;14 and other scr.) Israel ask Egypt for help instead of god but their military help was of no benefit. so Egypt may have been involved in the removal/hiding of the temple treasures. then after the 70 years (temple was being rebuilt) and these things retrieved.
so then the copper scrolls (if the wealth had been retrieved by this time) were of no value. now to the Jewish faith any writings that contained the name/names of god were sacred and could not be destroyed,maybe things pertaining to the temple of god also were viewed this way. or as we know the copper scrolls were found in the back of the cave and not with the other scrolls(found in the same cave) so they may have been placed there before the others.
the dating of Qumran is probably the key these peoples sealed these manuscripts in the several caves (as if they were in danger/or saved because they could not be destroyed) by July ad70 but the Romans did not declare the dead sea area under control until after the fall of Jerusalem. also in the manuscripts found there is the/a copy of the book of (Revelation?) that is it is a shorter version. but follows very similar wording.
its a curious thing to me that this many people lived in the area of the dead sea and this many manuscripts were hidden/or preserved and not then reclaimed. the Romans must have become such a threat around this time they were afraid these manuscripts would be lost (destroyed by the Romans?) if not hidden. the people then were removed to other parts of the empire?,,killed?,what? but if the intent was to preserve these then knowledge of the whereabouts would have been passed down to others and then reclaimed before 1947.
so if it were to lead to treasure(carnal or spiritual) it would have been reclaimed before 1947. i have read there is another copy of the copper scrolls with additional information,in another location mentioned in the copper scroll. it has never been found (they say),,so/and if it had been found somewhere in history it would have led to the caves at Qumran. so weather it be spiritual or carnal treasure if me and you lived at Qumran and we knew we both would have passed the knowledge to family members or friends.
well i suppose i got off both subjects, my intent was to tell them "do read in ken's website",,i am also old and started my study in the libraries before the internet. something i would add to what ken said about it is this some may not know,,,if you ask the librarian at your local library "books not at your library",,they will borrow from other libraries. so if you cant find the copy you are looking for they will usually have it shipped to your library and you pay the return shipping.
K
So glad to see you again, Iamsoandso. I thought about you just yesterday. Do you have the transcriptions of those numbers that are similar to the Bablylonian? I have never read the Copper Scroll in Hebrew, but I find it most curious that Greek letters and babylonian style numbers are in the same document, when the Hebrew letters would have worked fine for both.
Best guess on the purpose of the copper scroll is as an index to treasure owned/inteded/imagined by the qumran residents. They thought the Jerusalem Temple was out of God's order and were starting a new one.
Best guess on the purpose of the copper scroll is as an index to treasure owned/inteded/imagined by the qumran residents. They thought the Jerusalem Temple was out of God's order and were starting a new one.
good to see you again too ken,,they are not Babylonian 60's in the copper scrolls. they are Egyptian digits 1-9 same as that employed by the Babylonians/wedges,,,let me search for a while for where i found it. it was the egyptian tho,,,,
111
111
111,,,systym
not
Y to Y=60,,,,,,hope that don't throw any one else off "if so go to kens web site" and look at Rhine papyrus?(correct me ken?),,,
and yes i believe it also (Qumran,last stages after July,ad70),,,the Romans had already built the moat around Jerusalem and were by then setting out to conquer the out lying cities,,,they began at the trade routes off shore,shutting down supplies into the city. then dug the moat around Jerusalem,,,,they(the two leaders inside the walls of Jerusalem) tried to get them to attack the roman army. But they would not for fear,they were told all who tried to escape would be killed.
well,,,i am bringing the setting back to the "copper scrolls,at Qumran",,,for those who do not know this history it is very important.,,,as it took place their were two leaders inside the walls of Jerusalem,,about a million strong.,,,,,,,one of the leaders decided to burn most of the remaining food supply(to convince them to attack the outnumbered roman besieging army),,,,,,,,but they would not do it.
as the days went on those who tried to escape from the walls were killed and laid one beside the other around the moat around the city walls of Jerusalem facing inward for all the remaining peoples inside the city to see. At the end the rest were crucified,both Christians and Jews.
hmmm,,so when did the temple scrolls go from Herod's temple to Qumran?,,,hmmm,,the Herod family didn't care for Christ,,,,hmmm,,,,,,what would Herod have done with the copper scroll?the treasure map?,,,,(do you think Herod ever saw the copper scroll?),,,well here is the history,,to the copper scrolls,,,,it was the last siege after Masada,,,
ken add up the Greek letters and look for a pharaohs name,,,,,,,and remember the Rhind.,and the 60's,,,,their little secret,,,take all of the Greek and look at the name. what does the name ,,,,,,,,,,,"mean?",,,the anwser is not the problem the solution is.
,,,,,,,i will look for the place where the Egyptian numbers are,,,,,they are a series of the numbers 1thru9,,,,,in the copper scrolls,,,,,,,,,,,,
111
111
111,,,systym
not
Y to Y=60,,,,,,hope that don't throw any one else off "if so go to kens web site" and look at Rhine papyrus?(correct me ken?),,,
and yes i believe it also (Qumran,last stages after July,ad70),,,the Romans had already built the moat around Jerusalem and were by then setting out to conquer the out lying cities,,,they began at the trade routes off shore,shutting down supplies into the city. then dug the moat around Jerusalem,,,,they(the two leaders inside the walls of Jerusalem) tried to get them to attack the roman army. But they would not for fear,they were told all who tried to escape would be killed.
well,,,i am bringing the setting back to the "copper scrolls,at Qumran",,,for those who do not know this history it is very important.,,,as it took place their were two leaders inside the walls of Jerusalem,,about a million strong.,,,,,,,one of the leaders decided to burn most of the remaining food supply(to convince them to attack the outnumbered roman besieging army),,,,,,,,but they would not do it.
as the days went on those who tried to escape from the walls were killed and laid one beside the other around the moat around the city walls of Jerusalem facing inward for all the remaining peoples inside the city to see. At the end the rest were crucified,both Christians and Jews.
hmmm,,so when did the temple scrolls go from Herod's temple to Qumran?,,,hmmm,,the Herod family didn't care for Christ,,,,hmmm,,,,,,what would Herod have done with the copper scroll?the treasure map?,,,,(do you think Herod ever saw the copper scroll?),,,well here is the history,,to the copper scrolls,,,,it was the last siege after Masada,,,
ken add up the Greek letters and look for a pharaohs name,,,,,,,and remember the Rhind.,and the 60's,,,,their little secret,,,take all of the Greek and look at the name. what does the name ,,,,,,,,,,,"mean?",,,the anwser is not the problem the solution is.
,,,,,,,i will look for the place where the Egyptian numbers are,,,,,they are a series of the numbers 1thru9,,,,,in the copper scrolls,,,,,,,,,,,,
T
Brilliant posts! I didn't mean to imply that you both just Googled all of this information on the Internet and didn't have to research for many years to come to this knowledge. I'm familiar with books. They're those cardboard and paper tomes you read by turning the pages, yes? I prefer books to eBooks, there's something more palatable about them.
well,,,but what if ken post and says"well but look at this,,,,,",,,,,,and i go hmmmmm,,,yea your right ken,,,,,,,,hmmmm,",,there's the depth where we dance and stumble and help one another to the chair,,,and rest,,,and laugh at each other,,,and get up again and dance.,,,,,,,spin around,and around and around till you cant see me or ken,,,,,,dance with us,,,,,,,,,,,
N
Not sure how complete these are. These are translations of the Dead Sea manuscripts. I even read in a article or two that that a small fragment of the Gospel of Mark may have been found among them. Other then that most of the old testament accounts and histories are found in them I think. I would look it up. The writings found here back up a lot of books thought not to be genuine, If I remember right.
This is the site I found it at : The Dead Sea Scrolls \/ found here.
The Dead Sea Scrolls, gospel, gospels, pseudepigrapha, apocrapha, apocrypha, gnostic, lost books, yahshuan, world religion, sacred texts, christian
This is the site I found it at : The Dead Sea Scrolls \/ found here.
The Dead Sea Scrolls, gospel, gospels, pseudepigrapha, apocrapha, apocrypha, gnostic, lost books, yahshuan, world religion, sacred texts, christian
Last edited:
K
Here is the link to all the DSS, Hebrew and English as a pdf file: http://sheekh-3arb.org/library/books/up_coll/Dead_Sea_Sc_Study.pdf The Copper Scroll starts on p. 232 in the book. 257 in the pdf file. It is 3Q15. I find no Babylonian or Egyptian numerals. Iamsoandso, please get me a verse number.