What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED believer?
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K
God alone is judge. But in my thinking, assuming he had the time, the understanding, and opportunity to get baptized but refused to, I believe he does not go to heaven. But again- only God is Judge, and only He knows the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Jesus says if you love Me you WILL obey what I command (John 14:15). Good intentions are not enough- only actual obedience matters (Matthew 7:21, 2 Samuel 6:6,7).
But most importantly is 2 Thessalonians 1:8...
"He will punish those who do not KNOW God AND do not OBEY the GOSPEL of our Lord Jesus."
But most importantly is 2 Thessalonians 1:8...
"He will punish those who do not KNOW God AND do not OBEY the GOSPEL of our Lord Jesus."
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Amen! In Matthew 27:39-43, we see that those who passed by, along with the chief priests scribes and elders blashemed, mocked and shook their heads at Jesus and EVEN THE ROBBERS WHO WERE CRUCIFIED WITH HIM REVILED HIM WITH THE SAME THING. I certainly don't see being crucified as a thief, blasheming, mocking and shaking your head at Jesus as being the fruit of repentance/faith. Yet, moments later, we see that the thief had a "change of mind" (repentance) placed his faith in Christ for salvation and was saved (Luke 23:40-43). Of course, he died before having the opportunity to be water baptized, yet Jesus promised him today that he would be with Him in Paradise.
Acts 10:43 - ..whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"
Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.. -- Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
Acts 15:8 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.
NOWHERE does the Bible say that whoever is not water baptized will not be saved, yet we find whoever DOES NOT BELIEVE IS CONDEMNED ALREADY (John 3:18).
I was saved on a Saturday night several years ago when I repented and believed the gospel but I was unable to get water baptized until Sunday morning. I was very excited about getting baptized the next day and couldn't wait to share my testimony with others at church about how I finally came to receive Christ through faith! Now do I believe that if I would have dropped dead of a heart attack before Sunday morning arrived that I would not be saved? Absolutely not. I knew without a doubt that I had become born again that night when I placed my faith in Christ for salvation prior to receiving water baptism on Sunday morning. For the first time in my life I could finally say with 100% certainty, now I know that I truly believe and I know that I have eternal life (1 John 5:13). Praise God!
Acts 10:43 - ..whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"
Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.. -- Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
Acts 15:8 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation - having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.
NOWHERE does the Bible say that whoever is not water baptized will not be saved, yet we find whoever DOES NOT BELIEVE IS CONDEMNED ALREADY (John 3:18).
I was saved on a Saturday night several years ago when I repented and believed the gospel but I was unable to get water baptized until Sunday morning. I was very excited about getting baptized the next day and couldn't wait to share my testimony with others at church about how I finally came to receive Christ through faith! Now do I believe that if I would have dropped dead of a heart attack before Sunday morning arrived that I would not be saved? Absolutely not. I knew without a doubt that I had become born again that night when I placed my faith in Christ for salvation prior to receiving water baptism on Sunday morning. For the first time in my life I could finally say with 100% certainty, now I know that I truly believe and I know that I have eternal life (1 John 5:13). Praise God!
The devils ARE an example of unbaptized believers, James 2:19.
Jn 12:42 "Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him;...."
No indication they were water baptized with John's baptism. Not confessing Christ is the same as denying Christ.
Agrippa is an example of an unbaptized believer.
He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved. The "AND" requires BOTH belief and baptism and the order of the verse puts BOTH BEFORE "saved".
Acts 2:41,44 is proof that biblical belief INCLUDES baptism.
Again, who were the ones that are said to have "believed" in v44: (1)the ones that accepted Peter's words that were baptized or (2)the ones that rejected his words and were not baptized? The answer is too obvious.
The devils, chief priests and Agrippa are examples of those with "belief only" for they would not confess Christ or be baptized.
Acts 2:41 shows being baptized is accepting the gospel word. How can Peter in his gospel message command repentance and baptism (v38) and it be claimed that those who refused to repent or be baptized still accepted Peter's words? Not possible.
"Belief only" excludes one from repenting, confession and baptism.
What happens to the belief only person that will not repent? The impenitent are Lost
What happens to the belief only person that will not confess Christ? the deniers of Christ Lost
What happens to the belief only person that is not baptized for remission of sins? Lost in his unremitted/unforgiven sins
So if you want to argue a believer unbaptized can still be saved, then might as will try and argue a believer that refuses to repent can be saved in his impenitent state, that a believer that refuses to confess Christ/deny Christ can still be saved in his state of denial.
So belief only has one falling short of repenting confessing Christ and having sins remitted/forgiven so belief only has one falling short of salvation.
Jn 12:42 "Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him;...."
No indication they were water baptized with John's baptism. Not confessing Christ is the same as denying Christ.
Agrippa is an example of an unbaptized believer.
He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved. The "AND" requires BOTH belief and baptism and the order of the verse puts BOTH BEFORE "saved".
Acts 2:41,44 is proof that biblical belief INCLUDES baptism.
Again, who were the ones that are said to have "believed" in v44: (1)the ones that accepted Peter's words that were baptized or (2)the ones that rejected his words and were not baptized? The answer is too obvious.
The devils, chief priests and Agrippa are examples of those with "belief only" for they would not confess Christ or be baptized.
Acts 2:41 shows being baptized is accepting the gospel word. How can Peter in his gospel message command repentance and baptism (v38) and it be claimed that those who refused to repent or be baptized still accepted Peter's words? Not possible.
"Belief only" excludes one from repenting, confession and baptism.
What happens to the belief only person that will not repent? The impenitent are Lost
What happens to the belief only person that will not confess Christ? the deniers of Christ Lost
What happens to the belief only person that is not baptized for remission of sins? Lost in his unremitted/unforgiven sins
So if you want to argue a believer unbaptized can still be saved, then might as will try and argue a believer that refuses to repent can be saved in his impenitent state, that a believer that refuses to confess Christ/deny Christ can still be saved in his state of denial.
So belief only has one falling short of repenting confessing Christ and having sins remitted/forgiven so belief only has one falling short of salvation.
Seabass continues to pettifog. The thread question is what happens to an unbaptized believer, believer in the sense of trusting Christ as Savior, not "believe that some facts are so."
They are not. Give one verse that says devils trust Christ as Savior or "believe in Christ." Believing facts is not the issue.
[/quote]Jn 12:42 "Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him;...."[/quote]
So what? You have no proof that these were not baptized, neither does your verse indicate what happened to them.
Nicodemus & Joseph of Arimathea: Do you have some proof of their destiny?
Can you prove that one? What does that have to do with the question of the thread?
What happens to unbaptized believers, those who trust Christ as Savior, but do not get baptized?
False. The text nowhere says that Agrippa believed in Jesus, trusted Him as Savior. Neither does it say that he was baptized or not.
The text does not tell What happens to unbaptized believers, those who trust Christ as Savior, but do not get baptized. The text does not speak about unbaptized believers at all.
And as to your your "AND" claim:
So what. Again the fallacy:
A = believe, B = is baptized.
Given: If A & B, then C (salvation).
Given: If not A, then not C (no salvation).
Fallacious deduction: If not B, then not C (no salvation).
That is an elementary Logical Fallacy.
It is no proof at all. But if it is, then you must say (by your own illogic) that demons who believe were baptized, Agrippa, was baptized, the rulers were baptized. Then you have no data on unbaptized believers.
If all of a group of persons do 2 things, that does not indicate that #1 includes #2.
If all of a group ride bicycles and get bit by mosquitos, that does not prove that riding bikes means getting bit by mosquitos.
Acts 2:41,44 says nothing about unbaptized believers.
The text does not tell What happens to unbaptized believers, those who trust Christ as Savior, but do not get baptized. The text does not speak about unbaptized believers at all.
No it does not. Any such a statement is absent from the text. Where does the word IS appear?
Acts 2:41 is irrelevant because the text does not tell What happens to unbaptized believers, those who trust Christ as Savior, but do not get baptized. The text does not speak about unbaptized believers at all.
Your tortured argument is irrelevant, for your text does not tell What happens to unbaptized believers, those who trust Christ as Savior, but do not get baptized. The text does not speak about unbaptized believers at all.
You run on, but Acts 2:41 says nothing about any unbaptized believers, nor what happens to them.
I thought you argued that believe included baptism. Now you seem to contradict yourself.
Believe only does not exclude those things, as repent is a change of mind from unbelief to belief, confess is understood as agree with God on the definition of the Savior, Spirit baptism is a given, something done by God, not by man.
But at any rate your tortured arguments are irrelevant. The issue is what happens to unbaptized believers, and your Acts passage says nothing about unbaptized believers.
Where does scripture say that the person who trusts Christ as Savior, but is not baptized is lost in his sins? Your saying it proves nothing. You need scripture.
The thread has no argument. It asks the question,
What happens to unbaptized believers, those who trust Christ as Savior, but do not get baptized?
If you have proof of what happens to them, give it. Don't quote verses which say nothing about unbaptized believers.
Where does scripture say that believing in Christ falls short of anything? Retract, or quote a verse that says
Believing in Christ falls short.
That's what you say. But scripture says:
Sirs, what MUST I DO to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you SHALL BE saved.
They are not. Give one verse that says devils trust Christ as Savior or "believe in Christ." Believing facts is not the issue.
[/quote]Jn 12:42 "Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him;...."[/quote]
So what? You have no proof that these were not baptized, neither does your verse indicate what happened to them.
Nicodemus & Joseph of Arimathea: Do you have some proof of their destiny?
Can you prove that one? What does that have to do with the question of the thread?
What happens to unbaptized believers, those who trust Christ as Savior, but do not get baptized?
False. The text nowhere says that Agrippa believed in Jesus, trusted Him as Savior. Neither does it say that he was baptized or not.
The text does not tell What happens to unbaptized believers, those who trust Christ as Savior, but do not get baptized. The text does not speak about unbaptized believers at all.
And as to your your "AND" claim:
So what. Again the fallacy:
A = believe, B = is baptized.
Given: If A & B, then C (salvation).
Given: If not A, then not C (no salvation).
Fallacious deduction: If not B, then not C (no salvation).
That is an elementary Logical Fallacy.
It is no proof at all. But if it is, then you must say (by your own illogic) that demons who believe were baptized, Agrippa, was baptized, the rulers were baptized. Then you have no data on unbaptized believers.
If all of a group of persons do 2 things, that does not indicate that #1 includes #2.
If all of a group ride bicycles and get bit by mosquitos, that does not prove that riding bikes means getting bit by mosquitos.
Acts 2:41,44 says nothing about unbaptized believers.
The text does not tell What happens to unbaptized believers, those who trust Christ as Savior, but do not get baptized. The text does not speak about unbaptized believers at all.
No it does not. Any such a statement is absent from the text. Where does the word IS appear?
Acts 2:41 is irrelevant because the text does not tell What happens to unbaptized believers, those who trust Christ as Savior, but do not get baptized. The text does not speak about unbaptized believers at all.
Your tortured argument is irrelevant, for your text does not tell What happens to unbaptized believers, those who trust Christ as Savior, but do not get baptized. The text does not speak about unbaptized believers at all.
You run on, but Acts 2:41 says nothing about any unbaptized believers, nor what happens to them.
I thought you argued that believe included baptism. Now you seem to contradict yourself.
Believe only does not exclude those things, as repent is a change of mind from unbelief to belief, confess is understood as agree with God on the definition of the Savior, Spirit baptism is a given, something done by God, not by man.
But at any rate your tortured arguments are irrelevant. The issue is what happens to unbaptized believers, and your Acts passage says nothing about unbaptized believers.
Where does scripture say that the person who trusts Christ as Savior, but is not baptized is lost in his sins? Your saying it proves nothing. You need scripture.
The thread has no argument. It asks the question,
What happens to unbaptized believers, those who trust Christ as Savior, but do not get baptized?
If you have proof of what happens to them, give it. Don't quote verses which say nothing about unbaptized believers.
Where does scripture say that believing in Christ falls short of anything? Retract, or quote a verse that says
Believing in Christ falls short.
That's what you say. But scripture says:
Sirs, what MUST I DO to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you SHALL BE saved.
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The devils are the perfect example of belief only for they do believe in the facts but will not obediently act upon them.
With belief only there is NO confession and No baptism. So can one with belief only be saved while in a state of denying Christ? No.
So the belief only person is lost without confession as he is without baptism.
One either confesses Christ or he does not. Not confessing Christ is denying Christ:
Mt 10:32,33 "32 - Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33-But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven"
Confessing Christ in v32 is contrasted to denying Christ in v33. So not confessing = denying Christ. Those that will not confess Christ, Christ will deny them.
Acts 26, Paul sermon to Agrippa included preaching Jesus Christ, verse 15-20. Agrippa response to Paul's sermon was "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian." Agrippa could not almost be a Christian without a knowledge of, belief in Jesus Christ. So Agrippa's 'belief only" in Christ left him to fall short of being a Christian....no repentance/no confession/no baptism = almost a Christian.
Mk 16:16 does not allow salvation for an unbaptized believer.
Jesus made BOTH conditions of belief and baptism necessary to be saved. Jesus did not say he that believeth only is saved and baptism is optional.
It's not a claim but grammatical fact that the conjunction "and" is a connective conjunction:
" A conjunction is a word that joins two or more words, phrase or clauses. Think of them as gluing words. They glue words, phrases and clauses together."
What is a Conjunction?
Man-man belief only theology cannot undo the glue, cannot undo the connective power of the conjunction.
The "deduction" you gave contains the fallacy, not Mk 16:16.
If 1(belief)+2(baptism)=3(saved)
then
1(belief) cannot = 3(saved)
Again, from the context of Acts 2:41-44, who were the ones that are said to have "believed" in verse 44?
1) the ones that accepted Peters words and were baptized?
2) the ones that rejected Peter's words and were not baptized?
You will not answer #1 for it is the obvious answer that proves that "believed" of v44 INCLUDES being baptized. You have yet to prove otherwise. You only have left to argue that those that rejected Peter's words and rejected baptism are the ones that believed which is truly fallacious. Or are you willing to argue those that rejected baptism accepted His words when his words COMMANDED baptism? If they rejected his words that commanded baptism then they obviously rejected baptism along with rejecting his words.
Again, then you must argue either:
1) those that "believed" in v44 are the ones that rejected Peter's word and rejected baptism. (not possible)
or
2) try and argue that those that "believed" in v44 accepted Peter's words but rejected baptism ( which is not possible for Peter's words COMMANDED baptism so they could not accept his words while rejecting baptism.)
It's relevant for it again, it puts you in the position to argue from either or both of two impossible points:
1) those that "believed" in v44 are the ones that rejected Peter's word and rejected baptism. (not possible)
or
2) try and argue that those that "believed" in v44 accepted Peter's words but rejected baptism ( which is not possible for Peter's words COMMANDED baptism so they could not accept his words while rejecting baptism.)
Since #1 and #2 are impossible, then the only biblical explanation is rejecting baptism is rejecting the gospel word.
As seen from Acts 2:41,44 saving belief includes baptism. Since the bible also teaches repentance and confession saves, Acts 2:38; Rom 10:9,10 then a saving belief would also include repentance and confession.
It is BELIEF ONLY that EXCLUDES repentance, confession and baptism so the onus is upon you to try and explain the impossible, that being, the impossibility in getting an impenitent, denier of Christ in his unremitted/unforgiven sins saved by belief only.
Mark 16:16. Jesus put BOTH belief AND baptism BEFORE salvation. So belief without baptism falls short of "saved"
The unbaptized believer is lost.
Just as:
The unrepentant believer is lost.
The non-confessing believer is lost.
Was the jailer in Acts 16 baptized?
With belief only there is NO confession and No baptism. So can one with belief only be saved while in a state of denying Christ? No.
So the belief only person is lost without confession as he is without baptism.
One either confesses Christ or he does not. Not confessing Christ is denying Christ:
Mt 10:32,33 "32 - Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33-But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven"
Confessing Christ in v32 is contrasted to denying Christ in v33. So not confessing = denying Christ. Those that will not confess Christ, Christ will deny them.
Acts 26, Paul sermon to Agrippa included preaching Jesus Christ, verse 15-20. Agrippa response to Paul's sermon was "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian." Agrippa could not almost be a Christian without a knowledge of, belief in Jesus Christ. So Agrippa's 'belief only" in Christ left him to fall short of being a Christian....no repentance/no confession/no baptism = almost a Christian.
Mk 16:16 does not allow salvation for an unbaptized believer.
Jesus made BOTH conditions of belief and baptism necessary to be saved. Jesus did not say he that believeth only is saved and baptism is optional.
It's not a claim but grammatical fact that the conjunction "and" is a connective conjunction:
" A conjunction is a word that joins two or more words, phrase or clauses. Think of them as gluing words. They glue words, phrases and clauses together."
What is a Conjunction?
Man-man belief only theology cannot undo the glue, cannot undo the connective power of the conjunction.
The "deduction" you gave contains the fallacy, not Mk 16:16.
If 1(belief)+2(baptism)=3(saved)
then
1(belief) cannot = 3(saved)
Again, from the context of Acts 2:41-44, who were the ones that are said to have "believed" in verse 44?
1) the ones that accepted Peters words and were baptized?
2) the ones that rejected Peter's words and were not baptized?
You will not answer #1 for it is the obvious answer that proves that "believed" of v44 INCLUDES being baptized. You have yet to prove otherwise. You only have left to argue that those that rejected Peter's words and rejected baptism are the ones that believed which is truly fallacious. Or are you willing to argue those that rejected baptism accepted His words when his words COMMANDED baptism? If they rejected his words that commanded baptism then they obviously rejected baptism along with rejecting his words.
Again, then you must argue either:
1) those that "believed" in v44 are the ones that rejected Peter's word and rejected baptism. (not possible)
or
2) try and argue that those that "believed" in v44 accepted Peter's words but rejected baptism ( which is not possible for Peter's words COMMANDED baptism so they could not accept his words while rejecting baptism.)
It's relevant for it again, it puts you in the position to argue from either or both of two impossible points:
1) those that "believed" in v44 are the ones that rejected Peter's word and rejected baptism. (not possible)
or
2) try and argue that those that "believed" in v44 accepted Peter's words but rejected baptism ( which is not possible for Peter's words COMMANDED baptism so they could not accept his words while rejecting baptism.)
Since #1 and #2 are impossible, then the only biblical explanation is rejecting baptism is rejecting the gospel word.
As seen from Acts 2:41,44 saving belief includes baptism. Since the bible also teaches repentance and confession saves, Acts 2:38; Rom 10:9,10 then a saving belief would also include repentance and confession.
It is BELIEF ONLY that EXCLUDES repentance, confession and baptism so the onus is upon you to try and explain the impossible, that being, the impossibility in getting an impenitent, denier of Christ in his unremitted/unforgiven sins saved by belief only.
Mark 16:16. Jesus put BOTH belief AND baptism BEFORE salvation. So belief without baptism falls short of "saved"
The unbaptized believer is lost.
Just as:
The unrepentant believer is lost.
The non-confessing believer is lost.
Was the jailer in Acts 16 baptized?
What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED MAN WHO TRUSTS CHRIST AS SAVIOR?
This is the question I posed:
"What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED MAN WHO TRUSTS CHRIST AS SAVIOR?" I used the word believe originally & explained that as trusting Christ as Savior. Now with defiance of the question, someone is going on about believers who are believers in facts -- which is not the question. No one gets saved by believing facts to be true. Demons & King Agrippa II believed certain facts. That does not make them believers in the Lord Jesus, as defined in the thread.
ARE WE TALKING PAST EACH OTHER?
Seabass writes as if he doesn't know what believe in the Lord Jesus means.
So, it seems to me that when he gives a list of things to do to be saved,
he omits from his list trusting Christ as Savior. From his arguments (& my denominational experience) it seems that faith or belief for Seabass is believing that Jesus is the Son of God. Of course believing a ton of true facts about the Lord Jesus is not sufficient for salvation.
But it would appear that no only are Seabass & Alligator & others wrong on adding water baptism to belief, but they don't even have belief in their list. It appears that for them belief is demonic, Agrippa factual belief that something is so. Thus they have not got to square one:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
That means trust in, dependence upon the Lord Jesus for salvation.
And thus it is self-contradictory for a man to say He trusts Christ for salvation, yet He won't be saved upon he gets dunked in water. Such a man would not be trusting the Lord Jesus as SAvior at all, for trusting Jesus for Him does not save -- it just gets you on the road whereby you might be saved if you don't get run over by a car before they dunk you in water.
Any one who has dismissed the Lord Jesus as SAvior, making him a mere chance-giver, needs to repent of that distrust in the Savior, and start trusting Him with his eternal destiny.
I give them eternal life & they shall never perish.
Now that I have responded to the off-thread errors posted here,
I still ask that anyone tell us with Bible proof,
what happens to the believer in Christ who does not get baptized?
This is the question I posed:
"What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED MAN WHO TRUSTS CHRIST AS SAVIOR?" I used the word believe originally & explained that as trusting Christ as Savior. Now with defiance of the question, someone is going on about believers who are believers in facts -- which is not the question. No one gets saved by believing facts to be true. Demons & King Agrippa II believed certain facts. That does not make them believers in the Lord Jesus, as defined in the thread.
ARE WE TALKING PAST EACH OTHER?
Seabass writes as if he doesn't know what believe in the Lord Jesus means.
So, it seems to me that when he gives a list of things to do to be saved,
he omits from his list trusting Christ as Savior. From his arguments (& my denominational experience) it seems that faith or belief for Seabass is believing that Jesus is the Son of God. Of course believing a ton of true facts about the Lord Jesus is not sufficient for salvation.
But it would appear that no only are Seabass & Alligator & others wrong on adding water baptism to belief, but they don't even have belief in their list. It appears that for them belief is demonic, Agrippa factual belief that something is so. Thus they have not got to square one:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
That means trust in, dependence upon the Lord Jesus for salvation.
And thus it is self-contradictory for a man to say He trusts Christ for salvation, yet He won't be saved upon he gets dunked in water. Such a man would not be trusting the Lord Jesus as SAvior at all, for trusting Jesus for Him does not save -- it just gets you on the road whereby you might be saved if you don't get run over by a car before they dunk you in water.
Any one who has dismissed the Lord Jesus as SAvior, making him a mere chance-giver, needs to repent of that distrust in the Savior, and start trusting Him with his eternal destiny.
I give them eternal life & they shall never perish.
Now that I have responded to the off-thread errors posted here,
I still ask that anyone tell us with Bible proof,
what happens to the believer in Christ who does not get baptized?
K
Re: What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED MAN WHO TRUSTS CHRIST AS SAVIOR?
Atwood I will just let our Lord Jesus Christ answer that for you;
Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
Atwood I will just let our Lord Jesus Christ answer that for you;
Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
You keep defining belief as belief of facts, which is not the issue. The issue is trusting Christ as SAvior, not factual belief that something is true. You cannot quote one verse that says demons believe in Christ. Quote your verse, or retract.
Do you contradict yourself? Didn't you say that believe includes water-baptism by synechdoche (nonsense)? You say "With belief only there in NO confession & No baptism. That is wrong, but where does the Bible say that what happens to those who believe and don't confess and are not baptized? Quote the verse.
What is your proof that a man who trusts Christ as SAvior is in a state of denying Christ?
The question is What happens to a man who believes in Christ, but is not baptized. You are off track.
Where does the Bible say that? Quote a verse to that effect or retract.
Do you contradict yourself? Didn't you say that believe includes water-baptism by synechdoche (nonsense)? You say "With belief only there in NO confession & No baptism. That is wrong, but where does the Bible say that what happens to those who believe and don't confess and are not baptized? Quote the verse.
What is your proof that a man who trusts Christ as SAvior is in a state of denying Christ?
The question is What happens to a man who believes in Christ, but is not baptized. You are off track.
Where does the Bible say that? Quote a verse to that effect or retract.
Re: What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED MAN WHO TRUSTS CHRIST AS SAVIOR?
There is nothing about "believe" or "faith" in that passage.
And nothing about being baptized either.
Am I correct about you, Kenneth,
You think believing in Christ is a matter of accepting some facts as true,
not depending on Him to save you?
You reject this scripture:
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
There is nothing about "believe" or "faith" in that passage.
And nothing about being baptized either.
Am I correct about you, Kenneth,
You think believing in Christ is a matter of accepting some facts as true,
not depending on Him to save you?
You reject this scripture:
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.
Let me remind you that the topic is
What happens to an unbaptized believer,
and by that I mean,
What happens to the man who believes in the Lord Jesus, trusts the Lord Jesus as his Savior
if he is not baptized?
Can we stay on track, and stop pettifogging, bringing in demons who only believe facts. It is preposterous to say that such are unbaptized believers in Jesus.
What happens to an unbaptized believer,
and by that I mean,
What happens to the man who believes in the Lord Jesus, trusts the Lord Jesus as his Savior
if he is not baptized?
Can we stay on track, and stop pettifogging, bringing in demons who only believe facts. It is preposterous to say that such are unbaptized believers in Jesus.
It is in the story about the resurrection that comes at the end of the 1000 Years. Try starting with the resurrection when Jesus returns and then the end of the 1000 years when the second one is talked about were God gives the many 100 years as mortal to lean what they did not learn the first time.
Mac.
Mac.
K
Re: What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED MAN WHO TRUSTS CHRIST AS SAVIOR?
No you are not correct.
I believe with all my heart, soul, and mind that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and is the one who saves me.
I also because I believe in Him, therefore trust and do as he said to do.
He clearly says in the passage I gave of Luke 6:46-49 that if you call Him your Lord, but then do not do what He says then you truly do not serve Him. You still are denying Him in areas of your life if you do not do, or believe that what He said does not apply or matter.
He calls to follow Him and imitate Him. Walking in love, and forgiveness, confessing Him before others, and yes He says to be baptized.
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Matthew 28:16-20
[h=3]The Great Commission[/h][SUP]16 [/SUP]Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. [SUP]17 [/SUP]When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,[SUP]20 [/SUP]and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Then lets take a look at what Jesus says to John when He went to him to be baptized;
Matthew 3:13-17
[h=3]The Baptism of Jesus[/h][SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
No you are not correct.
I believe with all my heart, soul, and mind that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and is the one who saves me.
I also because I believe in Him, therefore trust and do as he said to do.
He clearly says in the passage I gave of Luke 6:46-49 that if you call Him your Lord, but then do not do what He says then you truly do not serve Him. You still are denying Him in areas of your life if you do not do, or believe that what He said does not apply or matter.
He calls to follow Him and imitate Him. Walking in love, and forgiveness, confessing Him before others, and yes He says to be baptized.
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Matthew 28:16-20
[h=3]The Great Commission[/h][SUP]16 [/SUP]Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. [SUP]17 [/SUP]When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,[SUP]20 [/SUP]and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Then lets take a look at what Jesus says to John when He went to him to be baptized;
Matthew 3:13-17
[h=3]The Baptism of Jesus[/h][SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
honestly I am worried for one who has not the opportunity to obey the word of God because God makes the way for us to obey...we are not called by chance...
1 Samuel 15 American Standard Version (ASV)
15 And Samuel said unto Saul, Jehovah sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of Jehovah.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Thus saith Jehovah of hosts, I have marked that which Amalek did to Israel, how he set himself against him in the way, when he came up out of Egypt.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Saul summoned the people, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And Saul came to the city of Amalek, and laid wait in the valley.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And Saul said unto the Kenites, Go, depart, get you down from among the Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them; for ye showed kindness to all the children of Israel, when they came up out of Egypt. So the Kenites departed from among the Amalekites.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And Saul smote the Amalekites, from Havilah as thou goest to Shur, that is before Egypt.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them: but everything that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then came the word of Jehovah unto Samuel, saying,
[SUP]11 [/SUP]It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king; for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And Samuel was wroth; and he cried unto Jehovah all night.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And Samuel rose early to meet Saul in the morning; and it was told Samuel, saying, Saul came to Carmel, and, behold, he set him up a monument, and turned, and passed on, and went down to Gilgal.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Samuel came to Saul; and Saul said unto him, Blessed be thou of Jehovah: I have performed the commandment of Jehovah.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And Saul said, They have brought them from the Amalekites: for the people spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice unto Jehovah thy God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then Samuel said unto Saul, Stay, and I will tell thee what Jehovah hath said to me this night. And he said unto him, Say on.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And Samuel said, Though thou wast little in thine own sight, wast thou not made the head of the tribes of Israel? And Jehovah anointed thee king over Israel;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]and Jehovah sent thee on a journey, and said, Go, and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of Jehovah, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst that which was evil in the sight of Jehovah?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of Jehovah, and have gone the way which Jehovah sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the devoted things, to sacrifice unto Jehovah thy God in Gilgal.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And Samuel said, Hath Jehovah as great delight in burnt-offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of Jehovah? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as idolatry and teraphim. Because thou hast rejected the word of Jehovah, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned; for I have transgressed the commandment of Jehovah, and thy words, because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now therefore, I pray thee, pardon my sin, and turn again with me, that I may worship Jehovah.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee; for thou hast rejected the word of Jehovah, and Jehovah hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And as Samuel turned about to go away, Saul laid hold upon the skirt of his robe, and it rent.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And Samuel said unto him, Jehovah hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbor of thine, that is better than thou.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Then he said, I have sinned: yet honor me now, I pray thee, before the elders of my people, and before Israel, and turn again with me, that I may worship Jehovah thy God.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped Jehovah.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then said Samuel, Bring ye hither to me Agag the king of the Amalekites. And Agag came unto him cheerfully. And Agag said, Surely the bitterness of death is past.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before Jehovah in Gilgal.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then Samuel went to Ramah; and Saul went up to his house to Gibeah of Saul.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death; for Samuel mourned for Saul: and Jehovah repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
1 Samuel 15 American Standard Version (ASV)
15 And Samuel said unto Saul, Jehovah sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of Jehovah.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Thus saith Jehovah of hosts, I have marked that which Amalek did to Israel, how he set himself against him in the way, when he came up out of Egypt.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Saul summoned the people, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And Saul came to the city of Amalek, and laid wait in the valley.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And Saul said unto the Kenites, Go, depart, get you down from among the Amalekites, lest I destroy you with them; for ye showed kindness to all the children of Israel, when they came up out of Egypt. So the Kenites departed from among the Amalekites.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And Saul smote the Amalekites, from Havilah as thou goest to Shur, that is before Egypt.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And he took Agag the king of the Amalekites alive, and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs, and all that was good, and would not utterly destroy them: but everything that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then came the word of Jehovah unto Samuel, saying,
[SUP]11 [/SUP]It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king; for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And Samuel was wroth; and he cried unto Jehovah all night.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And Samuel rose early to meet Saul in the morning; and it was told Samuel, saying, Saul came to Carmel, and, behold, he set him up a monument, and turned, and passed on, and went down to Gilgal.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Samuel came to Saul; and Saul said unto him, Blessed be thou of Jehovah: I have performed the commandment of Jehovah.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Samuel said, What meaneth then this bleating of the sheep in mine ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And Saul said, They have brought them from the Amalekites: for the people spared the best of the sheep and of the oxen, to sacrifice unto Jehovah thy God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then Samuel said unto Saul, Stay, and I will tell thee what Jehovah hath said to me this night. And he said unto him, Say on.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And Samuel said, Though thou wast little in thine own sight, wast thou not made the head of the tribes of Israel? And Jehovah anointed thee king over Israel;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]and Jehovah sent thee on a journey, and said, Go, and utterly destroy the sinners the Amalekites, and fight against them until they be consumed.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore then didst thou not obey the voice of Jehovah, but didst fly upon the spoil, and didst that which was evil in the sight of Jehovah?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of Jehovah, and have gone the way which Jehovah sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the devoted things, to sacrifice unto Jehovah thy God in Gilgal.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And Samuel said, Hath Jehovah as great delight in burnt-offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of Jehovah? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as idolatry and teraphim. Because thou hast rejected the word of Jehovah, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned; for I have transgressed the commandment of Jehovah, and thy words, because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now therefore, I pray thee, pardon my sin, and turn again with me, that I may worship Jehovah.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee; for thou hast rejected the word of Jehovah, and Jehovah hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And as Samuel turned about to go away, Saul laid hold upon the skirt of his robe, and it rent.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And Samuel said unto him, Jehovah hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbor of thine, that is better than thou.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Then he said, I have sinned: yet honor me now, I pray thee, before the elders of my people, and before Israel, and turn again with me, that I may worship Jehovah thy God.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped Jehovah.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then said Samuel, Bring ye hither to me Agag the king of the Amalekites. And Agag came unto him cheerfully. And Agag said, Surely the bitterness of death is past.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before Jehovah in Gilgal.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then Samuel went to Ramah; and Saul went up to his house to Gibeah of Saul.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death; for Samuel mourned for Saul: and Jehovah repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
BINGO!
Bingo!
So long as you understand that believe is not just believing a fact, but implies trusting the risen Lord Jesus.
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach: 9 because if thou shalt confess [agree] with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved: 10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession [agreement] is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be put to shame. 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: 13 for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?
Thus the answer to the question is that there is no scripture which speaks of anything bad happening to unbaptized believers, that is unbaptized by the Holy Spirit, as all are. And also you don't find any statement about anyone being condemned for lacking water baptism.
Bingo!
So long as you understand that believe is not just believing a fact, but implies trusting the risen Lord Jesus.
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach: 9 because if thou shalt confess [agree] with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved: 10 for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession [agreement] is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be put to shame. 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: 13 for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?
Thus the answer to the question is that there is no scripture which speaks of anything bad happening to unbaptized believers, that is unbaptized by the Holy Spirit, as all are. And also you don't find any statement about anyone being condemned for lacking water baptism.