What Happens to an UNBAPTIZED believer?
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The problem is in the misunderstanding of the context in the scripture that says, salvation is not of works.
The works that these scriptures talk about is in the written ordinances of the mosaic law.
The works of God's moral laws do apply still, knowing right from wrong, and in turn doing right.
Following the commands given to us by the Lord, for He says if you love me you will keep my commandments.
The greatest commandment given is Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind.
( Do you love the Lord your God in all three areas or just one ? )
The second is love your neighbor as yourself
( Do you love all people, not just the ones who live next door, but in other states and countries as well ? )
Another commandment He gave, love your enemies
( Do you show love to those who do wrong, are in prison, or even commit evil acts and pray for all of them ? )
Other commands that Jesus gives,
Repentance, baptism, confession, helping others ( produce good fruit )
( Do you follow all of His commands to fulfill all righteousness to be perfect ? )
The works that these scriptures talk about is in the written ordinances of the mosaic law.
The works of God's moral laws do apply still, knowing right from wrong, and in turn doing right.
Following the commands given to us by the Lord, for He says if you love me you will keep my commandments.
The greatest commandment given is Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind.
( Do you love the Lord your God in all three areas or just one ? )
The second is love your neighbor as yourself
( Do you love all people, not just the ones who live next door, but in other states and countries as well ? )
Another commandment He gave, love your enemies
( Do you show love to those who do wrong, are in prison, or even commit evil acts and pray for all of them ? )
Other commands that Jesus gives,
Repentance, baptism, confession, helping others ( produce good fruit )
( Do you follow all of His commands to fulfill all righteousness to be perfect ? )
^ it's not as though Moses' law was replaced by another set of ordinances.
we are not saved by keeping the Levitical code or by righteous works, but by the mercy of God.
not despising His grace, we should be ready to do every good thing -
but it is by His spirit we are perfected, not by our hands. (Galatians 3:3)
we are not saved by keeping the Levitical code or by righteous works, but by the mercy of God.
not despising His grace, we should be ready to do every good thing -
but it is by His spirit we are perfected, not by our hands. (Galatians 3:3)
Living water = baptism of the Holy Spirit . . . . Living water is the water that Christ gives us - a well of water springing up into everlasting life. So because you said the Holy Spirit is not for today and I showed you that it was - out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified . . .You want to accuse me of bad exegesis!
I went to the scriptures to show you that Jesus Christ now baptizes with Holy Spirit - that Holy Spirit is associated with "living water" - Again you need to know that because something is used figuratively does not mean that it is NOT REAL.
1 Cor. 1:12-15 is water baptism done by men; I don't disagree but I am speaking of Jesus' baptism.
1 Cor 12:13 - you are continually saying that this has to do with water . . . No it does not . . . it specifically says we are baptized by one Spirit and have all been made to DRINK into one Spirit - lines up with the woman at the well "But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life which = out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water speaking of the Spirit . . . See how Holy Spirit is often referred to as water . . . spiritual water used figuratively but nonetheless real!
John announced that he baptized with water and that there was coming one mightier than he that would baptize with Holy Spirit and with fire - sounds to me like he announced what he was doing and what Jesus Christ would be doing - definitive statements.
"While Peter yet spake these words the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision were astonished as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of Holy Spirit. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. . . . .[Acts 10:44-46] And yes they were baptized in water afterward . . . but they were baptized in Holy Spirit first! Oh and look another reference to the Holy Spirit as water - "poured out" Were these that believed the "apostles"? . . . . "Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I that I could withstand God?" [Acts 11:17]
How do we become part of the body of Christ? For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made drink into one Spirit. - Would that be baptism with Holy Spirit?
I can't believe that you do not believe in the baptism of Holy Spirit for every born again believer - How did you get born again of the Spirit? through water baptism? And if you do not have the Spirit of God within you - you cannot understand spiritual things . . . I don't know . . . . Most of the church epistles speak of walking in the Spirit - you can't walk in the Spirit without having the Spirit in you and that comes by being baptized in Holy Spirit . . . that new creation is born within you - not by water - but by the Spirit.
I went to the scriptures to show you that Jesus Christ now baptizes with Holy Spirit - that Holy Spirit is associated with "living water" - Again you need to know that because something is used figuratively does not mean that it is NOT REAL.
1 Cor. 1:12-15 is water baptism done by men; I don't disagree but I am speaking of Jesus' baptism.
1 Cor 12:13 - you are continually saying that this has to do with water . . . No it does not . . . it specifically says we are baptized by one Spirit and have all been made to DRINK into one Spirit - lines up with the woman at the well "But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life which = out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water speaking of the Spirit . . . See how Holy Spirit is often referred to as water . . . spiritual water used figuratively but nonetheless real!
John announced that he baptized with water and that there was coming one mightier than he that would baptize with Holy Spirit and with fire - sounds to me like he announced what he was doing and what Jesus Christ would be doing - definitive statements.
"While Peter yet spake these words the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision were astonished as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of Holy Spirit. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. . . . .[Acts 10:44-46] And yes they were baptized in water afterward . . . but they were baptized in Holy Spirit first! Oh and look another reference to the Holy Spirit as water - "poured out" Were these that believed the "apostles"? . . . . "Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I that I could withstand God?" [Acts 11:17]
How do we become part of the body of Christ? For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made drink into one Spirit. - Would that be baptism with Holy Spirit?
I can't believe that you do not believe in the baptism of Holy Spirit for every born again believer - How did you get born again of the Spirit? through water baptism? And if you do not have the Spirit of God within you - you cannot understand spiritual things . . . I don't know . . . . Most of the church epistles speak of walking in the Spirit - you can't walk in the Spirit without having the Spirit in you and that comes by being baptized in Holy Spirit . . . that new creation is born within you - not by water - but by the Spirit.
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SeaBass continues on Mark 16, which says nothing about unbaptized believers!
Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to
everyone who believes.
The way a man can be saved is in Acts 16 & a host of other passages:
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved. Mark 16 doesn't say that a man is not saved until baptized.
And scripture tells us that salvation is not by works, so no human work saves.
The fact that words are in some order in a sentence does not determine meaning; it is the expressed relationship between them that determines meaning.
He who wins the lottery, had bought a ticket.
Wins the lottery is before "bought a ticket" in the sentence, but wins the lottery did not come before bought a ticket. Neither did wins the lottery cause "bought a ticket."
This is more SeaBass sophistry.
And does not make things inseparable. Acts says: "And Paul and Barnabas spake out boldly." Yet it also tells us that Paul and Barnabas separated in a dispute about John Mark.
And does not make two things equally important.
"many publicans and sinners came and sat down with Jesus and his disciples."
The disciples are not equally important with Jesus. And can certainly be used to join two things, one of which is essential and the other is not. Who would claim that making him a supper and Martha serving were both essential?
"So they made him a supper there: and Martha served."
SeaBass invents implications for and that don't exist.
Logic 101:
If A and B, then C.
If not A, then not C.
Logical Fallacy: "If not B, then not C."
Given: If a man consumes meat and juice, he gets protein.
Given: If a man does not consume meat, he gets no protein.
Logical fallacy: "If a man does not consume juice, he gets no protein."
QED
Do not ignore that the last part of Mark 16:16 omits baptism from the condemnation clause.
Water baptism cannot be essential to salvation, for salvation is offered again & again without a drop of water.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.
Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.
John 3:14-18
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life.
John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
1 John 5:10-12
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto YHWH;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.
Acts 15:8
And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
Acts 26:18b
that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.
Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.
Rom 3:21-30
But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 4:1ff
:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.
9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.
Rom 10:4ff
For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down
or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.
Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to
everyone who believes.
The way a man can be saved is in Acts 16 & a host of other passages:
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved. Mark 16 doesn't say that a man is not saved until baptized.
And scripture tells us that salvation is not by works, so no human work saves.
The fact that words are in some order in a sentence does not determine meaning; it is the expressed relationship between them that determines meaning.
He who wins the lottery, had bought a ticket.
Wins the lottery is before "bought a ticket" in the sentence, but wins the lottery did not come before bought a ticket. Neither did wins the lottery cause "bought a ticket."
This is more SeaBass sophistry.
And does not make things inseparable. Acts says: "And Paul and Barnabas spake out boldly." Yet it also tells us that Paul and Barnabas separated in a dispute about John Mark.
And does not make two things equally important.
"many publicans and sinners came and sat down with Jesus and his disciples."
The disciples are not equally important with Jesus. And can certainly be used to join two things, one of which is essential and the other is not. Who would claim that making him a supper and Martha serving were both essential?
"So they made him a supper there: and Martha served."
SeaBass invents implications for and that don't exist.
Logic 101:
If A and B, then C.
If not A, then not C.
Logical Fallacy: "If not B, then not C."
Given: If a man consumes meat and juice, he gets protein.
Given: If a man does not consume meat, he gets no protein.
Logical fallacy: "If a man does not consume juice, he gets no protein."
QED
Do not ignore that the last part of Mark 16:16 omits baptism from the condemnation clause.
Water baptism cannot be essential to salvation, for salvation is offered again & again without a drop of water.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.
Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.
John 3:14-18
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life.
John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
1 John 5:10-12
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto YHWH;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.
Acts 15:8
And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
Acts 26:18b
that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.
Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.
Rom 3:21-30
But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 4:1ff
:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.
9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.
Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.
Rom 10:4ff
For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down
or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.Mark 16:16 continues to put belief AND BAPTISM BEFORE saved.
Jn 3:6 shows the fleshly birth has nothing to do with the new birth, as Peter said "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God" And Jn 3:6 does not take the literal water out of verse 3.
Jn 3:5 "Except a man be born of water..."
Acts 8:36 "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized.."
Literal "water" is associated with a literal immersion/ baptism.
Jn 3:5----------spirit+++++++++water>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor12:13---spirit++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>in the body
Literal water is associated with literal immersion/baptized
Jn 3:5 "Except a man be born of water..."
Acts 8:36 "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized.."
Literal "water" is associated with a literal immersion/ baptism.
Jn 3:5----------spirit+++++++++water>>>>>>>>in the kingdom
1Cor12:13---spirit++++++++++baptized>>>>>>>in the body
Literal water is associated with literal immersion/baptized
Still no scripture given for any condemnation of unbaptized believers.
It is true that the scripture that includes Mark 16:16 is commonly rejected by scholars (majority of whom are unbelieving skunks).
But it is also true that only 2 important manuscripts lack that section (Vaticanus & Sinaiticus).
2 - Vaticanus has an unusual space left after its shorter ending, as if space were left for an addition.
3 - IMHO, Vaticanus & Sinaiticus are the same textual family (diluting the importance of their witness).
4 - the shorter ending would end with the word gar (for), which I don't think is used for the last word in a Greek book.
5 - the shorter ending would probably be seen as abrupt.
6- I think that generally the sheep recognize God's voice when they read the passage.
The signs mentioned, like escape from poisoning & snake venom are prophesied as accompanying the apostolic proclamation of the Word of God. We have an example with Paul on Miletus Island toward the end of Acts. Hebrews indicates that the proclamation of God's word was attended with miracles. The snake passage has no relevance to other contexts (no apostles, no prophesying). The passage does not tell persons to tempt God.
Mark 16:16 says nothing about unbaptized believers,
nor does it say that baptism is essential for salvation,
nor does it say a man is damned if he believes but is not baptized.
It is true that the scripture that includes Mark 16:16 is commonly rejected by scholars (majority of whom are unbelieving skunks).
But it is also true that only 2 important manuscripts lack that section (Vaticanus & Sinaiticus).
2 - Vaticanus has an unusual space left after its shorter ending, as if space were left for an addition.
3 - IMHO, Vaticanus & Sinaiticus are the same textual family (diluting the importance of their witness).
4 - the shorter ending would end with the word gar (for), which I don't think is used for the last word in a Greek book.
5 - the shorter ending would probably be seen as abrupt.
6- I think that generally the sheep recognize God's voice when they read the passage.
The signs mentioned, like escape from poisoning & snake venom are prophesied as accompanying the apostolic proclamation of the Word of God. We have an example with Paul on Miletus Island toward the end of Acts. Hebrews indicates that the proclamation of God's word was attended with miracles. The snake passage has no relevance to other contexts (no apostles, no prophesying). The passage does not tell persons to tempt God.
Mark 16:16 says nothing about unbaptized believers,
nor does it say that baptism is essential for salvation,
nor does it say a man is damned if he believes but is not baptized.
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AS OF YET, NO REF TO UNBAPTIZED BELIEVERS EVER BEING CONDEMNED!
NATURAL CHILD BIRTH.
What awful deceitful sophistry.
And there again we have SeaBass sophistry, where he generates a false parallelism,
exposed before.
Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Jn 3:5 ----------water+++++++Spirit+++ [NO BAPTISM]>>>Kingdom of God [no body]
1 Cor 12:13 -- NO WATER! +++ Spirit+++baptized>>into 1 body [no kingdom]
NATURAL CHILD BIRTH.
What awful deceitful sophistry.
And there again we have SeaBass sophistry, where he generates a false parallelism,
exposed before.
Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.
Jn 3:5 ----------water+++++++Spirit+++ [NO BAPTISM]>>>Kingdom of God [no body]
1 Cor 12:13 -- NO WATER! +++ Spirit+++baptized>>into 1 body [no kingdom]
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SeaBass still fails to quote any verse that condemns the unbaptized believer.
Time words of "before" are not used. Order of words does not settle causative or temporal meaning.
We are dealing with consequential logic here, not mere word order.
He who wins the lottery, has bought a ticket.
Wins comes before bought in the sentence, but in time the bought comes before the wins.
Winning does not cause the bought, but bought causes the winning.
The text does not say that baptism is essential for salvation,
Only that if A & B, then C.
From that you cannot deduce that B is essential for C.
If a man consumes meat & juice, he gets protein; but from that you cannot prove that juice is essential for protein.
Simple logic 101, and that for a passage where no water is mentioned & where strangely enough, the unbeliever is condemned, but not the unbaptized.
Time words of "before" are not used. Order of words does not settle causative or temporal meaning.
We are dealing with consequential logic here, not mere word order.
He who wins the lottery, has bought a ticket.
Wins comes before bought in the sentence, but in time the bought comes before the wins.
Winning does not cause the bought, but bought causes the winning.
The text does not say that baptism is essential for salvation,
Only that if A & B, then C.
From that you cannot deduce that B is essential for C.
If a man consumes meat & juice, he gets protein; but from that you cannot prove that juice is essential for protein.
Simple logic 101, and that for a passage where no water is mentioned & where strangely enough, the unbeliever is condemned, but not the unbaptized.
baptism of Holy Spirit = immersion in Holy Spirit = being filled with the Spirit = holy Spirit being poured out = indwelling of the Spirit = God in Christ [2 Cor. 5:19] and Christ in you [Col. 1:27] = the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ dwelling in you via the gift of Holy Spirit = baptism of Holy Spirit
John 3:5 NOTHING NOTHING about literal water baptism. . . . already dealt with the spiritual aspect of what I think regarding John 3:5 and the figure of speech used -
God bless you Atwood
John 3:5 NOTHING NOTHING about literal water baptism. . . . already dealt with the spiritual aspect of what I think regarding John 3:5 and the figure of speech used -
God bless you Atwood
K
Yes, but His disciples ( Apostles ) did.
Jesus never once commanded them to stop, and actually in return commanded them to keep baptizing that way in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He never canceled out the water part of baptism.
Matthew 3:13-17[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Jesus tells John here when He went to be baptized by him that this needs to be done for us to fulfill all righteousness.
Then we know that the apostles used water to do the baptism they were doing because some came to John about this, that Jesus and His followers were baptizing also. John says;
John 3:30
[SUP] [/SUP]He must increase, but I must decrease.
Now you see the apostles baptized using water while Jesus was still with them, and Jesus did not stop them. Then when y, Jesus commanded they continue baptizing. Then when you read Acts and epistles you see they still continued using water in baptism.
The water part of baptism did not change, what changed was the meaning of the baptism.
John's for repentance of sins, Jesus was for the acceptance of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus never once commanded them to stop, and actually in return commanded them to keep baptizing that way in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He never canceled out the water part of baptism.
Matthew 3:13-17[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Jesus tells John here when He went to be baptized by him that this needs to be done for us to fulfill all righteousness.
Then we know that the apostles used water to do the baptism they were doing because some came to John about this, that Jesus and His followers were baptizing also. John says;
John 3:30
[SUP] [/SUP]He must increase, but I must decrease.
Now you see the apostles baptized using water while Jesus was still with them, and Jesus did not stop them. Then when y, Jesus commanded they continue baptizing. Then when you read Acts and epistles you see they still continued using water in baptism.
The water part of baptism did not change, what changed was the meaning of the baptism.
John's for repentance of sins, Jesus was for the acceptance of the Holy Spirit.
but the apostles did not save me, but Christ, and they baptized into repentance - but Christ baptizes me into His death and resurrection, by Spirit, not H[SUB]2[/SUB]O -- it is Christ's baptism which saves, and repentance in my heart is the work of His Spirit.
as John the baptizer points out, and Jesus says, and Peter realized in Acts 11, the baptism changed - what was ceremonially done with H[SUB]2[/SUB]O in faith is now done in Spirit by our Lord Himself, and that is the baptism that saves. as He commanded and approved, we have this sacrament with H[SUB]2[/SUB]O - but just as because the heart was unclean, God did not accept the sacrifices of the wicked, it is the spiritual washing that sanctifies us and the physical obedience that is 'the answer of our good conscious.'
we obey His commandments because we love Him. we love Him because He first loved us.
the quid-pro-quo here is that i wash myself because He washes me, not that He washes me because i wash myself.
Ken, i feel like you keep reminding us that just because H[SUB]2[/SUB]O is not the means of our salvation, we should not despise or neglect H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism -- and i'm 100% with you on that. thanks
as John the baptizer points out, and Jesus says, and Peter realized in Acts 11, the baptism changed - what was ceremonially done with H[SUB]2[/SUB]O in faith is now done in Spirit by our Lord Himself, and that is the baptism that saves. as He commanded and approved, we have this sacrament with H[SUB]2[/SUB]O - but just as because the heart was unclean, God did not accept the sacrifices of the wicked, it is the spiritual washing that sanctifies us and the physical obedience that is 'the answer of our good conscious.'
we obey His commandments because we love Him. we love Him because He first loved us.
the quid-pro-quo here is that i wash myself because He washes me, not that He washes me because i wash myself.
Ken, i feel like you keep reminding us that just because H[SUB]2[/SUB]O is not the means of our salvation, we should not despise or neglect H[SUB]2[/SUB]O baptism -- and i'm 100% with you on that. thanks