What is faith ? Faith is not believing.

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LT

Guest
#41
James 2:19,20 "devils also believe and tremble" does that mean the devil has faith?
... lol.

there is no response EG. You can't explain any more clearly what you just said.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#42
James 2:19,20 "devils also believe and tremble" does that mean the devil has faith?
how do you get that from this?

Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull


yes,

One can believe, yet not have faith (assurance)

One can not have faith, and not have belief
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#43
... lol.

there is no response EG. You can't explain any more clearly what you just said.
lol. I did not think I could be more clear.. Wow..
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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#44
"we understand "is essential to understand the text.If you put believing in place of faith in that text it does not make sense. you woul have to say through believing we understand. which is not logical the best explanation is through the reveal truths of the Bible we understand that the worlds were framed .......
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
This may sound far fetched, but this is how I see faith.
I read, 'substance' of faith in verse one as, material, matter, or stuff in which one is believing for.
For example, the word of God says, Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory,
I see faith as giving flesh to the word of God. The word of God is spirit, and it needs something to transfer from the spirit realm to the physical realm. I see faith as a lumber yard for material, and a contractor building a house as the word of God. Just like the worlds that were framed in the natural were not always here, but were made in the spirit world first, or of things which do not appear.
I see faith as a window that puts the material on the spiritual things to cause it to appear in the natural world.
According to the way I read verse three, all the planets, as we know them, started out in the spirit world, and were translated into the natural. I think faith was the window in which it came through, that gave it substance.
Heb 11:3 Through faith the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#45
Many religions have a wrong concept of faith , most teach that faith is believing this is a gross error.
1.heb 11.1 faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen
2. Faith is the revealed truths of GOD 1tim4:6 that is the word of faith which we preach.
The Hebrew and Greek lexicons define 'Faith' as 'acting upon established truth'.

Hebrews chapter 11 lists-out numerous OT faith examples starting with the creation of the Universe through 'The Word', of which, we know is God The Son.

Amazingly, each subsequent example listed in chapter 11 likewise has God The Son, The Trinity, as a reference point when the Hebrew text is considered!

Hebrews chapter 12 concludes the OT faith examples by declaring that Jesus Christ is the Originator of our faith....thus confirming that The Son was indeed present in the OT, and that our faith is based upon acting upon this established Truth.



 
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nomos10

Guest
#46
how do you get that from this?
I ask that question so you can see how your explanation is contradictory.
1.you said you can believe and not have faith that part I accept then you then you spoiled it by saying faith is assurance .Faith is not assurance you are suppose to have assurance in the faith.
2.When the bible Say Rom 5:1 " being justified by faith we have peace with GOD" your assurance /confidence (human action) Cannot justify you! Only God can do that When you are justified the faith gives you confidence /assurance of eternal life
3.Isa 53:11" by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many" so God justifies us with spiritual knowledge( faith) "being justified by faith we have peace"
The great reformer Martin Luther says "faith tells what is to be done it teaches prescribes and directs,and it is a knowledge"
 

CWJ

Banned
Jan 16, 2014
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#47
'Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God'

Yes, I would say that faith is actively believing.
Faith is just believing that what God says He will surely do.
You hear what God says, you believe what He says, and you reckon that what He will indeed do.

Look at the examples of faith in Hebrews 11. - Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Rahab, Sarah. Their faith was made evident by the things that they did as a result of believing what God told them.

Just thoughts
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#48
'Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God'

Yes, I would say that faith is actively believing.
Faith is just believing that what God says He will surely do.
You hear what God says, you believe what He says, and you reckon that what He will indeed do.

Look at the examples of faith in Hebrews 11. - Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Rahab, Sarah. Their faith was made evident by the things that they did as a result of believing what God told them.

Just thoughts
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Yes!

If they did not have faith in God (trust him to keep his promise) they would not have done those things.
 
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nomos10

Guest
#49
The Hebrew and Greek lexicons define 'Faith' as 'acting upon established truth'.

Hebrews chapter 11 lists-out numerous OT faith examples starting with the creation of the Universe through 'The Word', of which, we know is God The Son.

Amazingly, each subsequent example listed in chapter 11 likewise has God The Son, The Trinity, as a reference point when the Hebrew text is considered!

Hebrews chapter 12 concludes the OT faith examples by declaring that Jesus Christ is the Originator of our faith....thus confirming that The Son was indeed present in the OT, and that our faith is based upon acting upon this established Truth.



Rom 10:8 word of faith which we preach" Rom 10:17 "faith cometh by hearing , and hearing the word of God this is a biblical concept.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#50
I ask that question so you can see how your explanation is contradictory.
1.you said you can believe and not have faith that part I accept then you then you spoiled it by saying faith is assurance .Faith is not assurance you are suppose to have assurance in the faith.
This makes no sense. Faith is assurance, or else it is not faith, it is mere belief. One can believe, yet not have assurance, Thus they believe, but do not have faith.
2.When the bible Say Rom 5:1 " being justified by faith we have peace with GOD" your assurance /confidence (human action) Cannot justify you! Only God can do that When you are justified the faith gives you confidence /assurance of eternal life
Assurance and confidence is not a human action unless your assurance confidence is in self.
3.Isa 53:11" by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many" so God justifies us with spiritual knowledge( faith) "being justified by faith we have peace"
The great reformer Martin Luther says "faith tells what is to be done it teaches prescribes and directs,and it is a knowledge"
It is a knowledge only based on assurance. As Abraham was willing to offer his son, because he had faith (assurance) God would raise him from the dead. And keep his promise.

His faith was in the work of God. Not in himself.
 

CWJ

Banned
Jan 16, 2014
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#51
I 'heard' that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God - I believed it.
I 'heard' that believing I would have life through His Name - I believe it.
(John 20:31)

I 'heard' that when Christ, who is my life, shall appear,
then I shall also appear with Him in glory - I believe it.
(Col 3:4)

Therefore I, like Titus, am 'Looking for that blessed hope',
and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
(Tit 2:13)

* This is actively believing what God has said, it is reckoning it to be so, and trusting in God to perform it.

This is faith in action. I believe what I cannot see.
What I cannot see is the substance of what I believe to be true.



More thoughts
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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nomos10

Guest
#52
Yes!

If they did not have faith in God (trust him to keep his promise) they would not have done those things.
That is not what Heb. 11 is saying. Check vs 3 again "through faith we understand" only knowledge gives an understanding. Beliving cannot give an understanding
The text goes on to say that "the world's were framed by the word of God so things which are seen were not made by which do appear"
so in other words only through word of God/ revealed truths/ faith we know that God created the physical world
 
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nomos10

Guest
#53
This makes no sense. Faith is assurance, or else it is not faith, it is mere belief. One can believe, yet not have assurance, Thus they believe, but do not have faith.


Assurance and confidence is not a human action unless your assurance confidence is in self.


It is a knowledge only based on assurance. As Abraham was willing to offer his son, because he had faith (assurance) God would raise him from the dead. And keep his promise.

His faith was in the work of God. Not in himself.
I guess this comes down to terminology . because you are saying faith = assurance I am saying faith = revealed truths .assurance to me means confidence.and to me it just does not harmonize with jam 2:19,
Heb11:1 rom 10:8,17 gal 3:2,5 etc..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#54
I guess this comes down to terminology . because you are saying faith = assurance I am saying faith = revealed truths .assurance to me means confidence.and to me it just does not harmonize with jam 2:19,
Heb11:1 rom 10:8,17 gal 3:2,5 etc..
I do not look at definitions of words according to what I think it means.

I look at it as to how the original word meant, and to the people who would have first read it.

the word means to have a full assurance. So I must interpret it this way.

If faith does not mean to "have confidence" then to me the word is useless. If you do not have confidence in something, you can not have faith in that something
 
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nomos10

Guest
#55
I do not look at definitions of words according to what I think it means.

I look at it as to how the original word meant, and to the people who would have first read it.

the word means to have a full assurance. So I must interpret it this way.
If faith does not mean to "have confidence" then to me the word is useless. If you do not have confidence in something, you can not have faith in that something

You still did not address the texts I quoted here is something for your consideration.

Wuest Word Studies – K. S. Wuest*– Vincent (Word Studies In The New Testament – M. R. Vincent) says, “It is important that the preliminary definition be clearly understood, since the following examples illustrate it.* The key is furnished by verse 27 , as seeing him who is invisible. Faith apprehends as a real fact what is not revealed to the senses. It rests on that fact, acts upon it, and is upheld by it in the face of all that seems to contradict it. Faith is real seeing.” The word “substance” deserves careful treatment. It is hupostasis, made up of stasis “to stand,” and hupo “under,” thus “that which stands under, a foundation.” Thus, it speaks of the ground on which one builds a hope.

Here is an original context where the word is used

by H. R. Minn, the story of a woman named Dionysia. She is described as “a woman of set jaw and grim determination.” *It seems that she had lost a case in a local court over a piece of land to which she laid claim. *Not satisfied with the decision of a lower court, she determined to take her case to a higher court in Alexandria. *She sent her slave to that city, with the legal documents safely encased in a stone box. *On the way, the slave lost his life in a fire, which destroyed the inn where he had put up for the night. *For 2,000 years, the sands of the desert covered the ruins of the inn, the charred bones of the slave, and the stone box.
Archaeologists have recently uncovered these remains. *In the box, they found the legal documents. *They read the note, which this woman had sent to the judge in Alexandria, “In order that my lord the judge may know that my appeal is just, I attach my hupostasis.” *That which was attached to this note, she designated by the Greek word translated “substance” in Heb. 11:1. *The attached document was translated and found to be the title-deed to the piece of land, which she claimed as her own possession, the evidence of her ownership.

So faith is the substance of things hoped for = evidence
 
Nov 19, 2012
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#56
Rom 10:8 word of faith which we preach" Rom 10:17 "faith cometh by hearing , and hearing the word of God this is a biblical concept.


Romans 10.8 - 9

But what does it say? "The Word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" that is, the Word of faith which we proclaim. Because if you confess the Lord Jesus with your mouth, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

The 'Word of Faith' is Jesus Christ...and believing that The Trinity raised Him from the dead is what saves a person...

Simple Biblical truth...

 
L

LT

Guest
#57
So, what is the evidence then? works?

What I am reading is an incomplete thought, nomos10.

If faith = evidence, then give an example of how you would use this in your life, or even in a sentence or devotional.

I just cannot possibly understand what the application of this thought could be.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#58
You still did not address the texts I quoted here is something for your consideration.

Wuest Word Studies – K. S. Wuest*– Vincent (Word Studies In The New Testament – M. R. Vincent) says, “It is important that the preliminary definition be clearly understood, since the following examples illustrate it.* The key is furnished by verse 27 , as seeing him who is invisible. Faith apprehends as a real fact what is not revealed to the senses. It rests on that fact, acts upon it, and is upheld by it in the face of all that seems to contradict it. Faith is real seeing.” The word “substance” deserves careful treatment. It is hupostasis, made up of stasis “to stand,” and hupo “under,” thus “that which stands under, a foundation.” Thus, it speaks of the ground on which one builds a hope.

Here is an original context where the word is used

by H. R. Minn, the story of a woman named Dionysia. She is described as “a woman of set jaw and grim determination.” *It seems that she had lost a case in a local court over a piece of land to which she laid claim. *Not satisfied with the decision of a lower court, she determined to take her case to a higher court in Alexandria. *She sent her slave to that city, with the legal documents safely encased in a stone box. *On the way, the slave lost his life in a fire, which destroyed the inn where he had put up for the night. *For 2,000 years, the sands of the desert covered the ruins of the inn, the charred bones of the slave, and the stone box.
Archaeologists have recently uncovered these remains. *In the box, they found the legal documents. *They read the note, which this woman had sent to the judge in Alexandria, “In order that my lord the judge may know that my appeal is just, I attach my hupostasis.” *That which was attached to this note, she designated by the Greek word translated “substance” in Heb. 11:1. *The attached document was translated and found to be the title-deed to the piece of land, which she claimed as her own possession, the evidence of her ownership.

So faith is the substance of things hoped for = evidence

You have not convinced me, it still does not make sense. If you have no hope. you can not have faith, You have to have an assurance the the thing hoped for (in this case, eternal life) is assured, or there is no hope. thus there is no faith.
 

And

Banned
Apr 10, 2014
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#59
the title of the post is not making any sense

what is faith faith is not beliving...

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

people with faith are called believers

people without faith are called unbelievers
 

And

Banned
Apr 10, 2014
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#60
2 Cor 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

then comes sanctification

without sanctification no man will see god

justification is by faith in Jesus blood
sanctification is by faith in Jesus word to give power to stop sinning

must have both

the falsse wide road gospel speaks of justification (forgiveness) and hides the sanctification of walking the life of Christ daily shunning all sins


half the gospel will not save you

repent and be sanctified
you all have been mjustified but that is not the victory over sins

now that you are forgiven you must walk with Jesus in the word and sanctify yourself
(sanctification is the rungs on a ladder the steps on a stairway
each step is one sin overcoime

those who overcome all their sins by grace through faith (Bible reading and following) are becoming sanctified

sanctification is a forever process as long as you walk toward Jesus you are pure in his blood

sotp walking
you fall

the once saved always saved doctrine makes it impossible for you to be saved for these biblical steps are not going to be believed or faollowed

so once saved always saved is just ignorance of the christian walk to newness of life in Jesus and will eventually kill you.

those who do not obey will fall away

promise.