What is the true meaning of Colossians 2?

[JaumeJ]

In part is the the same asme as when Paul teaches how if we act with a clear conscience in the sight of God, no one may fault us (judge us).

The biggest hukrdle for most toovercome is understanding obedience under grace. The moment it is brought up, some scream "under the law," being ignorant of the Word. The Holy Spirit has shown us the law under grace for it is placed in our inward parts and written on our minds. We know how to obey lawfully while living under grace, but do not try to explain this to those who cannot get beyond the milk of the Word..........they will eventually.
Praise God always, and never teach grace as license to be disobedient..........

So this passage is a very interesting one and I wanted to get different views and state my own;

Colossians 2:16-23, "16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ; 18 let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and [in] worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh, 19 and not holding the head, from which all the body — through the joints and bands gathering supply, and being knit together — may increase with the increase of God. 20 If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances? 2 thou may not touch, nor taste, nor handle — 22 which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men, 23 which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honor, unto a satisfying of the flesh."

 

[Hizikyah]

In part is the the same asme as when Paul teaches how if we act with a clear conscience in the sight of God, no one may fault us (judge us).

The biggest hukrdle for most toovercome is understanding obedience under grace. The moment it is brought up, some scream "under the law," being ignorant of the Word. The Holy Spirit has shown us the law under grace for it is placed in our inward parts and written on our minds. We know how to obey lawfully while living under grace, but do not try to explain this to those who cannot get beyond the milk of the Word..........they will eventually.
Praise God always, and never teach grace as license to be disobedient..........

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]T[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]here are two ditches on [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]the[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] road, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]l[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]egalism [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]h[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]yper grace, between those 2 ditches is a MOUNTAIN:

Revelation 14:12 - Parallel Verses[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Scriptures - Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]guarding the commands of Yah[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]the belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New American Standard Bible - Here is the perseverance of the saints who [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]keep the commandments of God[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]their faith in Jesus[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New International Version - This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]who keep his commands[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] and r[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]emain faithful to Jesus[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New Living Translation - This means that God's holy people must endure persecution patiently, [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]obeying his commands[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] and [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]maintaining their faith in Jesus[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

Are you saying all the Feast days are already completed?

and

If I don't kill am I cursed because I am "under the works of the Law?"

Q1 - refers to the ceremonial law. I don't understand by what you mean completed. They are no longer required of those in Christ.

Q2 - Why would not wanting to kill, put you under the curse of the law? (this refers to the moral law).

1. The 7 Feast days are prophecies of the works of the Messiah. Have all the prophecies in the Feasts been fulfilled in your view?

2. Many say if one follows the Law they are cursed, so my next thought is, in your view, is one cursed if I obey it?

 

[phil36]

1. The 7 Feast days are prophecies of the works of the Messiah. Have all the prophecies in the Feasts been fulfilled in your view?

2. Many say if one follows the Law they are cursed, so my next thought is, in your view, is one cursed if I obey it?

Q1. In Jesus all feasts meet their fulfillment. Not by us observing them.


Q2. Are you referring to the ceremonial law, or the moral law which we fulfill by living in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Grace777x70]

In part is the the same asme as when Paul teaches how if we act with a clear conscience in the sight of God, no one may fault us (judge us).

The biggest hukrdle for most toovercome is understanding obedience under grace. The moment it is brought up, some scream "under the law," being ignorant of the Word. The Holy Spirit has shown us the law under grace for it is placed in our inward parts and written on our minds. We know how to obey lawfully while living under grace, but do not try to explain this to those who cannot get beyond the milk of the Word..........they will eventually.
Praise God always, and never teach grace as license to be disobedient..........

I have never heard anyone preach grace is a license to sin. I have listened to over 1,000 message of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ and I have never heard anyone say such a thing. I have heard the complete opposite - that grace "teaches" us how to live godly in this present world.


What I have heard is others "accuse" and mis-represent what was said to make it "appear" that's what people are saying - to go out and sin all you want now because of grace. Paul was accused of the very same thing. That's just being deceitful.

Extreme Hebrew Roots believers ( not all Hebrew roots believers are extreme ) that want to turn themselves into Jews even though they are really gentiles - this group says we need to follow the law of Moses. That is the real perversion of the gospel of Christ.

Unfortunately they see the word "commandments" and they immediately default to the law of Moses - the Christian has died to the Law of Moses, been released from the Law of Moses and are not under the law of Moses anymore and we are now married to Another - Christ Himself. Going back to the law of Moses for life and living is committing spiritual adultery on our Lord.

 

[phil36]

Extreme Hebrew Roots believers ( not all Hebrew roots believers are extreme ) that want to turn themselves into Jews even though they are really gentiles - this group says we need to follow the law of Moses. That is the real perversion of the gospel of Christ.

I haven't read much on the Hebrew roots movement, but sounds like legalism to me, and exactly what Paul was against in Galatians.

 

[Hizikyah]

Are you saying all the Feast days are already completed?

and

If I don't kill am I cursed because I am "under the works of the Law?"

Q1. In Jesus all feasts meet their fulfillment. Not by us observing them.


Q2. Are you referring to the ceremonial law, or the moral law which we fulfill by living in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit?

1. So the Feast of Trumpets, which prophecises the return of the Messiah has alrady happened? (you are talking about keeping it, im simply asking about their fulfillment)

2. Im reffering to do not steal do not kill. Whatever label one can put on those, thats what im talking about.

 

[phil36]

1. So the Feast of Trumpets, which prophecises the return of the Messiah has alrady happened? (you are talking about keeping it, im simply asking about their fulfillment)

2. Im reffering to do not steal do not kill. Whatever label one can put on those, thats what im talking about.

Q1, you never read what I wrote, I said all feasts meet their fulfillment in Christ!! You are not required anymore, as they pointed to Christ! (I knew you mean't the feast of trumpets).

Q2, In Christ we follow the moral law, only because we ave been set free from bondage to do it, by the power of the Holy Spirit... The 10 commandments gives us an overview of the moral law, but Jesus sums it up for in a great way...

30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

Its all love my friend.. Take head of Paul's warning in Galatians 2:11-21.

 

[Hizikyah]

Q1, you never read what I wrote, I said all feasts meet their fulfillment in Christ!! You are not required anymore, as they pointed to Christ!

Q2, In Christ we follow the moral law, only because we ave been set free from bondage to do it, by the power of the Holy Spirit... The 10 commandments gives us an overview of the moral law, but Jesus sums it up for in a great way...

30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

Its all love my friend.. Take head of Paul's warning in Galatians 2:11-21.

But you nver answered my direct question about Feast of Trumpets? Unless that answer is a yes? Has the Feast of Trumpets been fulfilled in your view?

 

[Hizikyah]

I View attachment 166312

AND...

Seems your cool picture is against Scripture, that was spoken by the mouth of Yahshua/Jesus....

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12 - Parallel Verses[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Scriptures - Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Yah [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and [/FONT]the belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[FONT=Times New Roman, serif].[/FONT][/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New American Standard Bible - Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and[/FONT] their faith in Jesus.[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New International Version - This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]New Living Translation - This means that God's holy people must endure persecution patiently, obeying his commands and maintaining their faith in Jesus.[/FONT]


AND...

 

[Grace777x70]

I haven't read much on the Hebrew roots movement, but sounds like legalism to me, and exactly what Paul was against in Galatians.

Yes...I agree.

Any following of the law of Moses for life and living is a form of legalism. The Christian now lives by the law of Christ which is the law of love, the law of faith, the law of the spirit of life in Christ. These are manifestation of His life in us and this "life" will not lead us to murder, steal..etc. So, the life and love of Christ in us fulfills all intent of the law of Moses.

Side note - not all Hebrew Roots are extreme. Some because of their cultural background - ( meaning they are real "Jews" in the flesh ) means that they do observe the feasts but they do it to see Christ in them - not to "do the feasts" as in keeping them by the Law of Moses.

These types are a real blessing to us in the body of Christ because they can reveal Christ in all their cultural background which helps us "Gentile" Christians to see Christ better.

 

[phil36]

But you nver answered my direct question about Feast of Trumpets? Unless that answer is a yes? Has the Feast of Trumpets been fulfilled in your view?

The feast of tabernacles may possible pertain to the second coming of Christ, some say aye and some say nay. Thats what I mean't by all feast meet their fulfilment in Christ we no longer observe the feast's themselves as rites of the law. Christ fulfilled the law.

 

[stonesoffire]

I had to look up the feast of trumpets. How would one offer a sacrifice by fire in a church? Blowing trumpets, maybe but seven of them?

 

[Hizikyah]

The feast of tabernacles may possible pertain to the second coming of Christ, some say aye and some say nay. Thats what I mean't by all feast meet their fulfilment in Christ we no longer observe the feast's themselves as rites of the law. Christ fulfilled the law.

Im asking about Trumpets.

Here is the prophesied fulfillment:

Revelation 5:5-6, “And one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. See, the Lion of the tribe of Yehuḏah, the Root of Dawiḏ, overcame to open the scroll and to loosen its seven seals.” And I looked and saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders a Lamb standing, as having been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of Yah sent out into all the earth.”


Revelation 11:15, “And the seventh messenger sounded his trumpet, and there came to be loud voices in the heaven, saying, “The reign of this world has become the reign of our Master, and of His Messiah, and He shall reign forever and ever!”


1Cor 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”


Mat 24:29-31, “And immediately after the distress of those days the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give its light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Aḏam shall appear in the heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of Aḏam coming on the clouds of the heaven with power and much esteem. And He shall send His messengers with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.”

 

[stonesoffire]

Rom 14:6　 The one who observes a special day, observes it to honor the Lord. The one who eats, eats to honor the Lord, since he gives thanks to God. And the one who does not eat, refrains from eating to honor the Lord; yet he, too, gives thanks to God.　


Rom 14:7　 For none of us lives for himself, and no one dies for himself.　


Rom 14:8　 If we live, we live to honor the Lord; and if we die, we die to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
　
Rom 14:9　 For this reason the Messiah died and returned to life, so that he might become the Lord of both the dead and the living.　


Rom 14:10　 Why, then, do you criticize your brother? Or why do you despise your brother? For all of us will stand before the judgment seat of God.　


Rom 14:11　 For it is written, "As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praise God."
　
Rom 14:12　 Consequently, each of us will give an account of himself to God.　
Do Not Cause Another to Stumble

 

[phil36]

Hi Hizikyah,


I have answered questions, whether you agree or not is a different point. And I have already stated that ALL feast's meet their fulfilment in Christ, whether or not you believe 'Rosh Hashanah' pertains to the parousia.

 

[Hizikyah]

Hi Hizikyah,


I have answered questions, whether you agree or not is a different point. And I have already stated that ALL feast's meet their fulfilment in Christ, whether or not you believe 'Rosh Hashanah' pertains to the parousia.

Rosh Hashanna is a made up new year of judaisim, not the new year according to YHWH's calendar, it is not and has nothing to do with the 7 Feats days, and no you never answered my question about trumpets, if it has already been fulfilled. It as easy as "yes it has been fulfilled" or "no it has not been fulfilled"

 

[phil36]

Rosh Hashanna is a made up new year of judaisim, not the new year according to YHWH's calendar, it is not and has nothing to do with the 7 Feats days, and no you never answered my question about trumpets, if it has already been fulfilled. It as easy as "yes it has been fulfilled" or "no it has not been fulfilled"

Hi Hizikyah,

Yes all feast's meet their fulfillment in Christ..Again, Some say the feast of trumpets (Rosh Hashanah) , pertains to the parousia - Christs second coming, some don't. (that does answer your question...some say aye and some say nay!

If you want to talk about trumpets, your talking to the wrong man, I play guitar

 

[stonesoffire]

It seems to me after reading the scriptures Hizikyah, that the trumpets are blown out of heaven.

 

[Hizikyah]

It seems to me after reading the scriptures Hizikyah, that the trumpets are blown out of heaven.

Yes. At the return of Yahshua/Jesus, something that has not yet happened.