What is your view of Hell and the Lake of Fire? Is it Loving?
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J
I can't take it anymore. The evidence is overwhelming, you guys are just reading the Bible and seeing through your eternal torment lens when God is saying something different.
Jason0047 is right about the usage of forever (aion) in the Bible, study it and its usage for yourselves. But thats not the only evidence that God destroys sinners, it's all throughout the Bible plain as can be, way more than the couple mistranslated verses that you guys are basing eternal torment off of.
Even Satan will be reduced to ashes and cease to exist: Ezekiel 28
“You were the anointed cherub who [g]covers,
And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 “You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trade
[h]You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, O [i]covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become [j]terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’
Jason0047 is right about the usage of forever (aion) in the Bible, study it and its usage for yourselves. But thats not the only evidence that God destroys sinners, it's all throughout the Bible plain as can be, way more than the couple mistranslated verses that you guys are basing eternal torment off of.
Even Satan will be reduced to ashes and cease to exist: Ezekiel 28
“You were the anointed cherub who [g]covers,
And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 “You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trade
[h]You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, O [i]covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become [j]terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’
Last edited by a moderator:
J
Revelation 20:12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
So at this point, "the sea, death and hell" have given up all the dead within them. All ungodly men have have been judged according to their deeds and thrown in to the lake of fire. Death and hell have been thrown into the lake of fire. Then, after this happens:
2 Peter 3:7 "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
Then, the heavens and earth are obliterated, consumed and dissolved by fire. Next:
Revelation 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."
God recreates the heavens and earth, making all things new. Devoid of sin, death, sorrow, crying and pain. For the things which came before were destroyed and passed away.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
So at this point, "the sea, death and hell" have given up all the dead within them. All ungodly men have have been judged according to their deeds and thrown in to the lake of fire. Death and hell have been thrown into the lake of fire. Then, after this happens:
2 Peter 3:7 "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
Then, the heavens and earth are obliterated, consumed and dissolved by fire. Next:
Revelation 21:1 "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."
God recreates the heavens and earth, making all things new. Devoid of sin, death, sorrow, crying and pain. For the things which came before were destroyed and passed away.
J
Malachi 4:1 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.2But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall."
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."
Isaiah 47:14 "Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it."
Ezekiel 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."
Psalm 21:9 "Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them."
Obadiah 1:15 "For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been."
1 John 5:11 "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."
Matthew 13:38 "The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."
Deuteronomy 32:22 "For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust. The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs. I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men"
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."
Isaiah 47:14 "Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it."
Ezekiel 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Ezekiel 18:20 "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."
Psalm 21:9 "Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them."
Obadiah 1:15 "For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been."
1 John 5:11 "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."
Matthew 13:38 "The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."
Deuteronomy 32:22 "For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust. The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs. I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men"
J
In just a little while, the wicked will be no more; though you look carefully at his place, he will not be there.
Psalm 37:10
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 8:51
Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.”
Romans 5:12
[ Death in Adam, Life in Christ ] Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
Romans 5:17
For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
Romans 6:21
But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 7:10
The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me.
Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:6
For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
1 Corinthians 15:21
For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:26
The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1 Corinthians 15:54
When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
2 Timothy 1:10
and which now has been manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
Hebrews 2:14
Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,
James 1:15
Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death.
John 5:17
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.
Revelation 2:10
Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Revelation 2:11
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:14
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
Psalm 37:10
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 8:51
Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death.”
Romans 5:12
[ Death in Adam, Life in Christ ] Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
Romans 5:17
For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
Romans 6:21
But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 7:10
The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me.
Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:6
For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
1 Corinthians 15:21
For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:26
The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1 Corinthians 15:54
When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
2 Timothy 1:10
and which now has been manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
Hebrews 2:14
Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,
James 1:15
Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death.
John 5:17
All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death.
Revelation 2:10
Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Revelation 2:11
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:14
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
J
Psalm 37:20 But the wicked will perish; And the enemies of the Lord will be like the glory of the pastures, They vanish—like smoke they vanish away.
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
2 Peter 2:12
But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Matthew 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Philippians 3:19
Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power
How is the word ‘destruction’ used in other biblical topics?
1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
How will the wicked be destroyed?
2 Peter 3:7
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
Luke 17:28-30
28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.
The wicked are cast into hell, but isn’t Hell eternal?
Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hell were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Revelation 21:8
“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.“
So there will be no eternal suffering in hell?
Romans 6:23
“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord”
Revelation 21:4
He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Mark 8:36
What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?
1 Peter 1:9
for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
But isn’t the human soul immortal?
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in Hell.
2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
Will sin ever happen again once all the wicked are destroyed?
1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
When will the wicked be completely destroyed?
Matthew 13:40
“As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world/age.“
2 Peter 3:10.
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
2 Peter 2:12
But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Matthew 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Philippians 3:19
Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power
How is the word ‘destruction’ used in other biblical topics?
1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
How will the wicked be destroyed?
2 Peter 3:7
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
Luke 17:28-30
28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.
30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.
The wicked are cast into hell, but isn’t Hell eternal?
Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hell were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Revelation 21:8
“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.“
So there will be no eternal suffering in hell?
Romans 6:23
“For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord”
Revelation 21:4
He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Mark 8:36
What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?
1 Peter 1:9
for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
But isn’t the human soul immortal?
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in Hell.
2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
Will sin ever happen again once all the wicked are destroyed?
1 John 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
When will the wicked be completely destroyed?
Matthew 13:40
“As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world/age.“
2 Peter 3:10.
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
J
It is important to note that in Hebrew, the word for 'life/soul' (nehphesh) is never used in conjunction with the word "everlasting" in The Hebrew Scriptures/Old Testament.
Likewise, in the New Testament writings, the word for 'soul' (psukee) is never used in conjunction with the words 'eternal' or 'everlasting'.
Again – it is an assumption (based upon Greek philosophy) – that the soul of mankind is eternal and can never be destroyed. Yet immortality is exactly what the gospel offers.
Jesus...."has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. (2 Timothy 1:9b-10)
To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. (Romans 2:7)
Notice in that last verse - Paul uses the word "seek" when speaking of immortality. None of these attributes he lists here are inherent to mankind. If they were, then the word "seek" would clearly be out of place. Again, Paul did not believe the Greek philosophers who taught the immortality of all souls, neither did Jesus...
Also - about the second death....
The first death is temporary. In the first death, only the body is destroyed in the graveyard. However, there will be a resurrection one day of all humanity, a bodily resurrection. The second death will never be followed by a resurrection. In the second death, the body and soul are both destroyed (not preserved), (Matthew 10:28) forever.
The second death could not mean eternal torment because it is linked to the first death. The numerical values "first" and "second" show that they are related terms and therefore the deaths must be related too. In the first death, the body stops functioning. In the second death, the body and soul stop functioning forever. They are both destroyed. Jesus says specifically "both" in Matthew 10:28.
Likewise, in the New Testament writings, the word for 'soul' (psukee) is never used in conjunction with the words 'eternal' or 'everlasting'.
Again – it is an assumption (based upon Greek philosophy) – that the soul of mankind is eternal and can never be destroyed. Yet immortality is exactly what the gospel offers.
Jesus...."has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. (2 Timothy 1:9b-10)
To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. (Romans 2:7)
Notice in that last verse - Paul uses the word "seek" when speaking of immortality. None of these attributes he lists here are inherent to mankind. If they were, then the word "seek" would clearly be out of place. Again, Paul did not believe the Greek philosophers who taught the immortality of all souls, neither did Jesus...
Also - about the second death....
The first death is temporary. In the first death, only the body is destroyed in the graveyard. However, there will be a resurrection one day of all humanity, a bodily resurrection. The second death will never be followed by a resurrection. In the second death, the body and soul are both destroyed (not preserved), (Matthew 10:28) forever.
The second death could not mean eternal torment because it is linked to the first death. The numerical values "first" and "second" show that they are related terms and therefore the deaths must be related too. In the first death, the body stops functioning. In the second death, the body and soul stop functioning forever. They are both destroyed. Jesus says specifically "both" in Matthew 10:28.
-
Hell and the lake of fire are not meant to be loving; they are meant to be
unkind.
†. Isa 13:9 . . Behold, the day of The Lord comes-- cruel; with both wrath
and fierce anger
The Hebrew word for "wrath" in that statement is 'ebrah (eb-raw')
which indicates an outburst of passion. In other words: the wrath of God
won't be weeping big wet crocodile tears while it's slamming people at the
Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15; no, they will be
terminated with extreme prejudice; viz: the wrath of God will be furious
against them. (cf. Isa 63:1-6, Rev 19:15)
Webster's defines "fierce" as a behavior exhibited by humans and animals
that inspires terror because of the wild and menacing aspect of fury in
attack. Ferocity is an aspect commonly seen among roaring, snarling lions
savagely attacking prey. There's neither sportsmanship nor sympathy in
ferocity; only sheer terror, brutality, and blood lust.
"cruel" is defined as: disposed to inflict pain or suffering; viz: devoid of
humane feelings
†. Heb 10:27 . . A certain fearful expectation of . . . fiery indignation
"fiery indignation" is quite a bit more severe than ordinary indignation.
"fiery" speaks of someone who is seriously ticked off; and so angry that
they're actually red in the face.
There are people out there in cyberspace la-la land who have been so
conditioned by greeting cards, religious art, Broadway plays, Christmas
carols, and Hollywood movies and nativity scenes that they have no concept
of the magnitude of the lethal tsunami of rage and violence coming to get
them.
An interesting aspect of the wrath of God is the person appointed to
administer it-- none other than the sweet little baby away in a manger.
†. John 5:22-23 . .The Father judges no one, but has committed all
judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the
Father.
†. Acts 17:31 . . For God has set a day when he will judge the world with
justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men
by raising him from the dead.
†. Rev 19:15 . . He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treads the
winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
===============================
Hell and the lake of fire are not meant to be loving; they are meant to be
unkind.
†. Isa 13:9 . . Behold, the day of The Lord comes-- cruel; with both wrath
and fierce anger
The Hebrew word for "wrath" in that statement is 'ebrah (eb-raw')
which indicates an outburst of passion. In other words: the wrath of God
won't be weeping big wet crocodile tears while it's slamming people at the
Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15; no, they will be
terminated with extreme prejudice; viz: the wrath of God will be furious
against them. (cf. Isa 63:1-6, Rev 19:15)
Webster's defines "fierce" as a behavior exhibited by humans and animals
that inspires terror because of the wild and menacing aspect of fury in
attack. Ferocity is an aspect commonly seen among roaring, snarling lions
savagely attacking prey. There's neither sportsmanship nor sympathy in
ferocity; only sheer terror, brutality, and blood lust.
"cruel" is defined as: disposed to inflict pain or suffering; viz: devoid of
humane feelings
†. Heb 10:27 . . A certain fearful expectation of . . . fiery indignation
"fiery indignation" is quite a bit more severe than ordinary indignation.
"fiery" speaks of someone who is seriously ticked off; and so angry that
they're actually red in the face.
There are people out there in cyberspace la-la land who have been so
conditioned by greeting cards, religious art, Broadway plays, Christmas
carols, and Hollywood movies and nativity scenes that they have no concept
of the magnitude of the lethal tsunami of rage and violence coming to get
them.
An interesting aspect of the wrath of God is the person appointed to
administer it-- none other than the sweet little baby away in a manger.
†. John 5:22-23 . .The Father judges no one, but has committed all
judgment to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the
Father.
†. Acts 17:31 . . For God has set a day when he will judge the world with
justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men
by raising him from the dead.
†. Rev 19:15 . . He shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treads the
winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
===============================
Though I agree with Websters post, here. That God does have a furious wrath He is going to bring down on those who refuse the mercy He is offering them, I feel compelled to bring up that God does tell us that destroying the wicked brings Him NO pleasure, and that He did weep over man when He caused the great flood of Noah.
J
But the transgressors shall be destroyed together; The future of the wicked shall be cut off. Psalm 37: 9-11, 20, 38.
As smoke is driven away, So drive them away; As wax melts before the fire, So let the wicked perish at the presence of God. Psalm 68:2.
May sinners be consumed from the earth, And the wicked be no more. Bless the LORD, O my soul! Praise the LORD! Psalm 104:35.
The LORD preserves all who love Hims, But all the wicked He will destroy. Psalm 145:20.
You shall make them as a fiery oven in the time of Your anger; The LORD shall swallow them up in His wrath, And the fire shall devour them. Psalm 21:9
then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 2 Peter 2:9
For a fire is kindled by my anger, And shall burn to the lowest hell; It shall consume the earth with her increase, And set on fire the foundations of the mountains. Deuteronomy 32:22.
Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said to them: He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:36-43, 49-50.
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalms 146:4
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit. Job 27:3-4
As smoke is driven away, So drive them away; As wax melts before the fire, So let the wicked perish at the presence of God. Psalm 68:2.
May sinners be consumed from the earth, And the wicked be no more. Bless the LORD, O my soul! Praise the LORD! Psalm 104:35.
The LORD preserves all who love Hims, But all the wicked He will destroy. Psalm 145:20.
You shall make them as a fiery oven in the time of Your anger; The LORD shall swallow them up in His wrath, And the fire shall devour them. Psalm 21:9
then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 2 Peter 2:9
For a fire is kindled by my anger, And shall burn to the lowest hell; It shall consume the earth with her increase, And set on fire the foundations of the mountains. Deuteronomy 32:22.
Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said to them: He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:36-43, 49-50.
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7
His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalms 146:4
All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit. Job 27:3-4
J
I am not responsible for all the things I have posted, I do not have the time to go through all this from scratch at the moment. Much more is available, I do not necessarily hold any other views with the creators of this content. But I am posting these links to be honest and allow for more study.
Hell-Fire: A Twisted Truth Untangled | Amazing Facts
In just a little while, the wicked will be no more
The Biblical Truth About Hell, Does it Last Forever?
concering the aions. (Micah, Gomorrah, Sodom, punishment) - Christianity -
Hell-Fire: A Twisted Truth Untangled | Amazing Facts
In just a little while, the wicked will be no more
The Biblical Truth About Hell, Does it Last Forever?
concering the aions. (Micah, Gomorrah, Sodom, punishment) - Christianity -
J
There is more than enough to cast serious doubt on the concept of everlasting torment. Especially when you look into the word aion and its usage in the Bible and how it has come to be translated/understood.
I don't know how so many people can read these things and still be so convinced that eternal torment exists. To me it's like when Catholics (and other denominations with a priesthood and layman class) read the Bible and see passages like this:
But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.10 Do not be called [b]leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.11 But the greatest among you shall be your servant.12 Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.
And of course the Roman Catholic Chruch has been the entity most responsible for mixing this pagan concept of eternal torment with Christianity and then shoving it down the throats of the saints to lord over them. They themselves tortured and killed millions of Christian who desired to read the Bible or disagreed with them.
The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment: http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html#c3s2
I don't know how so many people can read these things and still be so convinced that eternal torment exists. To me it's like when Catholics (and other denominations with a priesthood and layman class) read the Bible and see passages like this:
But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers.9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.10 Do not be called [b]leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.11 But the greatest among you shall be your servant.12 Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.
And of course the Roman Catholic Chruch has been the entity most responsible for mixing this pagan concept of eternal torment with Christianity and then shoving it down the throats of the saints to lord over them. They themselves tortured and killed millions of Christian who desired to read the Bible or disagreed with them.
The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment: http://www.tentmaker.org/books/OriginandHistory.html#c3s2
Well put Justin. I agree 100%. In fact, I always liked the passage that you quoted that essentially says, "the last enemy to be destroyed is death." For it is essentially saying that God has other enemies that he has destroyed. Meaning he will destroy the wicked and the devil and his minions before he destroys the last enemy who is death.
You have it flipped. We ALL WOULD HAVE GONE TO HELL IF IT WEREN'T FOR JESUS!! Like regardless if we were "Good" or "bad". God sent Jesus so that we wouldn't HAVE to go there.
Some people are like "well then why doesn't God save everyone?" His will is that none should perish. However God also doesn't want to take away our free will. So some will choose to disobey. Does that make sense?
I dunno if I answered your question....
Some people are like "well then why doesn't God save everyone?" His will is that none should perish. However God also doesn't want to take away our free will. So some will choose to disobey. Does that make sense?
I dunno if I answered your question....
J
Thanks Jason0047,
I, like everyone else (it seems), grew up believing, preaching and defending the concept of eternal torment. Even the "best" teachers on radio, tv and behind the pulpits go on aionios about it. It's ridiculous to me now (after studying what God says for myself). Satan is still at work sowing the seeds of deception and death wherever they will take hold. There are many other commonly held beliefs and practices which have infiltrated the church as well but that is another thread. I just want to say to anyone reading this, The majority can be wrong it happens more than you think. It is important to test our presuppositions when seeking truth. Nobody is infallible, test everything (even me , even Billy Graham, and especially yourself) or your mind will definitely be fertile undisturbed soil where Satan's seeds of deception will grow into a great tangle of weeds which choke out the truth of the Word of God
I, like everyone else (it seems), grew up believing, preaching and defending the concept of eternal torment. Even the "best" teachers on radio, tv and behind the pulpits go on aionios about it. It's ridiculous to me now (after studying what God says for myself). Satan is still at work sowing the seeds of deception and death wherever they will take hold. There are many other commonly held beliefs and practices which have infiltrated the church as well but that is another thread. I just want to say to anyone reading this, The majority can be wrong it happens more than you think. It is important to test our presuppositions when seeking truth. Nobody is infallible, test everything (even me , even Billy Graham, and especially yourself) or your mind will definitely be fertile undisturbed soil where Satan's seeds of deception will grow into a great tangle of weeds which choke out the truth of the Word of God