what Lord told me about my anger at pastors

The_highwayman · Apr 26, 2014

Not all woodartdon, not at all...

I know all of us want our congregations to know who God is, see them spiritually mature and be everything God has called them to be and rise up in their calling and gifting and go take back what the enemy has stolen...

90% of congregations never mature, they are still babes and they want their milk and their cookie and their way...they also poop everywhere and on everyone....instead of maturing spiritually they debate you on the color of the carpet, pews, and woodstain, the sanctuary is either too hot or too cold, the music is not their kind of music and certainly is always too loud...
or the real good ones like how come the pastor and hsi wife always dress better than I do, he cannot afford that suit...she is just too pretty...

We wont even go down the road of doctrine and preaching right or wrong, tithes and offerings held hostage over foolishness, the lying spirits, gossip spirits and accuser of the brethren spirit, all of who's assignment is to kill the church through its own sheep. We wont disucss how some people who never live for Jesus all through the week, BUT think it is their place to correct their shepherd, because they have the gift of discerning of spirits, or they judge righteous judgement...no Mr. Sheep all you have is a spirit of criticism, judgement and condemnation....Let is be clear, if you had come to my church and attempted to correct me in mid message or by appointment, you would get escorted out...

Lets talk about all the sheep who think it is their job to tattle on the pastors kids and make sure he knows how bad they are...I had a lady do that to my daughter once and she was just ranting over something she saw on my daughters facebook...well it was not atll what she thought it was, but that did not stop her from taking over as my daughters parent and scolding her and telling on her to me...I finally saw a chance as she took a breath and said...Do you tell God on your other christian friends? do you tell them all the things they do wrong? She said well of course not, because he knows what his kids do and don't do...I fired right back and said, yeah so do me and my wife about our own daughter...have a nice day...they left the church over that and of course the lies spread that I hurt and offended her so bad......

The only thing predictable about church people is their unpredictability.

Nothing is ever good enough for most people, because they seek a perfect church and a perfect pastor, because they themselves are perfect people....that never happens....

I loved all my sheep, but I never let them walk all over me either...My job is to spiritually mature them to where God is able to use them and their gifts to save the lost, heal the sick, deliver the oprressed, destroy yokes, lift burdens, change lives, take back what the enemy has stolen and advance the kingdom and be who God says they are and called them to be...

Thank you Jesus for the handful that do see this and grow.... about 10% get it....I never sweat the pain inflicted, the lies, the strife, etc, I learned a long time ago I will offend most people, and it is God who validates and approves me, so I don't really care if you attack me, because If I am hearing from heaven about something you need in your life, you will get it whether you like me or not...

I used to get in such hot water when I would hear people tell me, well you don't pray for the sick all the time...Yep, I would tell them I don't so why don't you pray for the sick? Well you don't preach right, well why don't you give it a try this coming Sunday night? You don't look poor enough, well my God supplies all my needs according to his riches in glory and I am blessed to be a blessing, whats your excuse? You don't give me guidance privately any more...yep I taught you how to get victory over that issue, but you won't rise up and take it over in the name of Jesus or put it under the blood and put the enemy under your feet and claim the victory over it...you guys take vacations 3 times a year...yep we do, because we have to recharge from parting your lips for the bottle, giving uou a cookie and wiping up all the poop in the sheep pen....now excuse me I have a message to deliver in about 5 minutes...

I could go on for hours...but I wont...

Allin · Apr 26, 2014

Woodartdon said:

We sometimes see God as we are in our hearts. I've never found a murdering, unmerciful, or judgmental God in the OT. Somehow I see more in the OT the Love of God than in the NT because the OT has more stories and follows more people's lives than the NT does. Regarding tradition, I figured, "Why be loyal to something that isn't loyal to you." Traditions are intangible and invisible concepts that have never defended or stood up for anyone, yet people often defend and stand up for tradition. There's no reason in it, so by default, I had to side with what is real and tangible and defends and is loyal to me.

Allin · Apr 26, 2014

The_highwayman said:

I tried to post this twice and lost both posts somehow. Here's the third edition:

You used the right word: mantle. A mantle is something bestowed on or bequeathed to another person. No one can take a mantle; it must be given. When Elijah was taken up, his mantle (God-given ministry and right to rule) fell from his shoulders to Elisha who then walked in a ministry of greater wonders; when Jesus ascended, He divided His mantle ("the government (authority or right to rule) will be upon His shoulders") into five governing ministries which He placed on the shoulders of certain people and gave them as gifts to build up and ready His Bride, being able, as He told His disciples, to walk in more wonders than He because they were many. (Some of us can say we know gifted pastors; but we'd be hard pressed to say we know pastors who are gifts to the Body or Bride.) "And He gave some to be apostles... prophets... evangelists... pastors and teachers" (Eph. 4:11). In old times, as in the Book of Esther, a woman who was chosen to marry a king had to go through a time of beatification; she was given maidens and other attendants to make this happen. John the Baptist was such an attendant, the friend of the Groom, who rightly said as any minister should, "He must increase; I must decrease." You can't take a mantle; if you do, you're inviting condemnation already and are definitely liable to try to steal the Bride's affections rather than prepare her for Jesus.

Though we don't place much of a standard on leaders, God certainly never changed: Eve sinned first, but the curse came through Adam, because he was the leader. God therefore said unequivocally through David, "He who rules over men MUST be just, ruling in the fear of God" (2Sam. 23:3). One paraphrase of that is "Whoever has a position of leadership no longer can rule as they please but must rule the way that God rules/would rule", because everyone who rules (from minister to king/president to mayor to school teacher to boss to parent to husband) has, known to them or not, become an indirect representative of God Himself who is Ruler over the ruler of this world and over everything. This is why the Bible says that ALL authorities should be obeyed and held in regard and that ALL authority in from from God, why Moses' judgment for misrepresenting God was so harsh, and why James says Christians shouldn't be in a hurry to be teachers (ministers) since teachers have a greater responsibility before God than others have (though they generally don't know it) and so will have a greater judgment before God.

No one can handle the position of pastor or any other ministry; the burden on pastors is much more than they're able to or supposed to bear. However, many Christians want the pastor to do all the work, and many pastors want to receive all the attention; so what are we to do. The human genome is said to be coded with 6 billion letters (6 the number of man); if just two of these letters are switched around or one is out of place or missing, the body can have some pretty nasty deformities and problems. In the same way, when just one thing is out of place in the churches, when just one person who belongs to a fellowship (a member of the Body) is missing, there will be problems... and as the human genome-body shows, it only takes a little to be missing for a lot to be wrong; so with the churches. All Creation ties together: spiritual, physical, psychological, etc. So, since we're faced with so many problems in the churches, what are we to do. The only thing to do is to 'return' and build the Church like it is supposed to be so that 'all 6 billion letters' are in their right places and therefore everything naturally works just as it is supposed to work (Paul mentions this all the time-- every person, every part in its place; everything accounted for, every joint to its ligament, so that nothing is missing and the Body, BUILT as it's supposed to be built, will then FUNCTION as it's supposed to function). Outside of this, we'll only hold together a structure that's already fallen and defend and deny that anything is really wrong. There is only one right way; problems and issues are imminent outside of the right pattern. But this is what God says to such a situation and every time we go off track: “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; then you will find rest for your souls." Unfortunately, Israel's response then is often our response now: "But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.'" (Jer. 6:16.)

oldthennew · Apr 27, 2014

what a brief, well -written-summation of 2000yrs. of the Christian Church.
we surely do appreciate this post.

(so where-in lies the problem? for the admonition of Paul is universally broken)
'let there be no division among you'.

(((how do brethren dwell together in unity and harmony?)))

for certain, we have no control over another's behavior but
it is certain that we 'should' have control over our own behavior.

are we ruled by our own emotions and desires, or are we ruled by
God's will?
'For the flesh lusts against the spirit, and the spirit against the flesh,
and these are contrary the one to the other, so we cannot do the
things that we would,'.......

we ourselves thank God for the struggles and especially for the ones
that we have overcome through Christ Jesus our Lord.

every struggle/test each member can overcome brings the 'whole/body' closer together
in so many ways.

just think, if we all overcame, self-justification, pride, ego, impatience, intolerance, envy, wicked thoughts,
improper speech.

I tell you a truth, if this would happen, there would be so much rejoicing in heaven that the
whole universe would vibrate and glow with righteous, Holy Light.

resurrection33 · Apr 27, 2014

I think a lot of pastors succumb to the temptation of pride.

Woodartdon · Apr 27, 2014

You could not have proven the points in my O.P. any better if you tried! You say you love your sheep, after ranting against them for three paragraphs. What is up with that? You speak as though you are preforming might works of God, yet only 10% of your church must see them or maybe you are doing them in secret. You have discribed yourself here as a lacking pastor full of loathing for 90% of your congregation. maybe you should get a job you are good at as you must hate the one you have.

The_highwayman said:

Not all woodartdon, not at all...

I know all of us want our congregations to know who God is, see them spiritually mature and be everything God has called them to be and rise up in their calling and gifting and go take back what the enemy has stolen...

90% of congregations never mature, they are still babes and they want their milk and their cookie and their way...they also poop everywhere and on everyone....instead of maturing spiritually they debate you on the color of the carpet, pews, and woodstain, the sanctuary is either too hot or too cold, the music is not their kind of music and certainly is always too loud...
or the real good ones like how come the pastor and hsi wife always dress better than I do, he cannot afford that suit...she is just too pretty...

We wont even go down the road of doctrine and preaching right or wrong, tithes and offerings held hostage over foolishness, the lying spirits, gossip spirits and accuser of the brethren spirit, all of who's assignment is to kill the church through its own sheep. We wont disucss how some people who never live for Jesus all through the week, BUT think it is their place to correct their shepherd, because they have the gift of discerning of spirits, or they judge righteous judgement...no Mr. Sheep all you have is a spirit of criticism, judgement and condemnation....Let is be clear, if you had come to my church and attempted to correct me in mid message or by appointment, you would get escorted out...

Lets talk about all the sheep who think it is their job to tattle on the pastors kids and make sure he knows how bad they are...I had a lady do that to my daughter once and she was just ranting over something she saw on my daughters facebook...well it was not atll what she thought it was, but that did not stop her from taking over as my daughters parent and scolding her and telling on her to me...I finally saw a chance as she took a breath and said...Do you tell God on your other christian friends? do you tell them all the things they do wrong? She said well of course not, because he knows what his kids do and don't do...I fired right back and said, yeah so do me and my wife about our own daughter...have a nice day...they left the church over that and of course the lies spread that I hurt and offended her so bad......

The only thing predictable about church people is their unpredictability.

Nothing is ever good enough for most people, because they seek a perfect church and a perfect pastor, because they themselves are perfect people....that never happens....

I loved all my sheep, but I never let them walk all over me either...My job is to spiritually mature them to where God is able to use them and their gifts to save the lost, heal the sick, deliver the oprressed, destroy yokes, lift burdens, change lives, take back what the enemy has stolen and advance the kingdom and be who God says they are and called them to be...

Thank you Jesus for the handful that do see this and grow.... about 10% get it....I never sweat the pain inflicted, the lies, the strife, etc, I learned a long time ago I will offend most people, and it is God who validates and approves me, so I don't really care if you attack me, because If I am hearing from heaven about something you need in your life, you will get it whether you like me or not...

I used to get in such hot water when I would hear people tell me, well you don't pray for the sick all the time...Yep, I would tell them I don't so why don't you pray for the sick? Well you don't preach right, well why don't you give it a try this coming Sunday night? You don't look poor enough, well my God supplies all my needs according to his riches in glory and I am blessed to be a blessing, whats your excuse? You don't give me guidance privately any more...yep I taught you how to get victory over that issue, but you won't rise up and take it over in the name of Jesus or put it under the blood and put the enemy under your feet and claim the victory over it...you guys take vacations 3 times a year...yep we do, because we have to recharge from parting your lips for the bottle, giving uou a cookie and wiping up all the poop in the sheep pen....now excuse me I have a message to deliver in about 5 minutes...

I could go on for hours...but I wont...

Woodartdon · Apr 27, 2014

First; there has yet to be unity of the body with literal hundreds of different denominations in total disunity of each other. All making promises that are never seen other then in their being hoped for. None can claim to have the outward appearance of the flow of blessings promised to those who come together in the practice of God's love between themselves!

second; you speak of over coming one's own burdens yet God teaches that the one who has more has the more for the one who has less, that the one who has more might lift the burden of the one who has less, causing our God to rejoice!

Every one of those 90% you dismissed have burdens and how many of them have less then you? Are you a sinner to the 90%?

oldthennew said:

The_highwayman · Apr 27, 2014

Woodartdon said:

You could not have proven the points in my O.P. any better if you tried! You say you love your sheep, after ranting against them for three paragraphs. What is up with that? You speak as though you are preforming might works of God, yet only 10% of your church must see them or maybe you are doing them in secret. You have discribed yourself here as a lacking pastor full of loathing for 90% of your congregation. maybe you should get a job you are good at as you must hate the one you have.

I love you in the Lord brother.

Allin · Apr 28, 2014

oldthennew said:

You said, "How do brethren dwell together in unity and harmony?" I want to address just that, because everything else revolves around what Paul calls "the unity of the Spirit" or unity that comes BECAUSE OF the Holy Spirit leading and mending people together. First, I'll give an example of the difference between our own unity and that of the Spirit:

I knew a ministry couple; the husband was a pastor and his wife worship leader and counselor. She told me one day of a counselee with whom she was making no progress at all and couldn't figure out how to proceed. She shared that the counselee was a survivor of satanic ritual abuse and had dissociated alternate identities. I asked the Lord about it, and He gave me the answer (in the Bible, 'wisdom' is synonymous with answer, solution, and resolution) in a dream: I saw the woman and her husband ministering to who must have been the counselee together in the unity of the Holy Spirit. Because of their unity, a third Person was there-- the Lord ("where two or three are gathered in My Name, THERE I AM"); and because the Lord was there, the counselee felt safe enough to open up and allow Him to heal her which He did immediately and permanently. When I shared this with the counselor, she excitedly got her husband and tried what the Lord showed me. But that was the problem: she tried it. She reported to me that it didn't work at all. Of course it didn't; the Lord showed me that her and her husband had to be in the unity of the Spirit for it to work; she tried to do it in the strength of will or the flesh. What did her unity look like? She wore the pants in the marriage and her husband followed her wishes (God may bless each individual in such a situation but will bless that abominable relationship, ever); she was also territorial about counseling and saw it as hers since her husband had 'his own ministry' as pastor. She was all about minstry prestige and thought she could order the Lord around; therefore, she didn't know what unity meant (it meant the couple had to repent and get their relationship in order first, THEN the Lord would be in their midst and bless her ministry WITH HER HUSBAND PRESENT to be in agreement or unity). I don't think she's changed which means her counselees are suffering lack for it (as is the case when leaders want to lead but don't let the Lord lead them).

Jesus said in Jn. 10 that He came "that THEY may have life, and life more abundantly." I never saw a solitary person with this abundant Life nor any church. Can I really say this. Yes, because back in Ps. 133, God explains what Jesus would later say which is that that fullness of Life is had ONLY in a plurality (and not by individuals) who walk in the unity of the Spirit. Here's how Ps. 133 clarifies: "How good and how pleasant it is when brethren dwell together in unity... For there, the Lord COMMANDED the blessing-- Life forever." If you look at that Psalm, you'll see that the blessings of God's presence come on the place of unity AND order (the unity part is in verse 1, but read verse 2 for the order part). When these two conditions are met, then blessings which God COMMANDED (past tense: pre-decreed that they will and must happen when the right conditions are met) will effortlessly break on the people. How does it look "when brethren dwell together in unity" (or as I like to paraphrase, "when brethren agree agreeably in agreement"). It looks like the unity of the Spirit (meaning no one can ever do it by simply wanting or meaning to or trying hard or reading the Bible back to back ten times every year), which means selfless Love for each other, and the order that Jesus instituted in the Church where the anointing oil (the Grace of God in short) flows from the leadership down to the people, the leadership being composed of apostolic (ie. Kingdom-minded) ministers who are 'most apt' in bringing anywhere or to any place the presence of God: "For WE ARE to God THE FRAGRANCE OF CHRIST IN EVERY PLACE" (2Cor. 2). Without these two things being met (unity created and held together by the Spirit and God's order in any fellowship), we'll keep stumbling along, seeing miracles as extraordinary, and making sure the whole world knows when the Holy Spirit 'mistakenly' stirs just a little among us.

Allin · Apr 28, 2014

Woodartdon said:

Love is so hard to define. Solomon said that everyone claims to love by that finding a faithful person (because love is synonymous with faithfulness) is hard to find. There are many pastors who feel the way highwayman feels, but most of them would never admit it. I think that honesty shows hope rather than dishonest people who hide everything that's wrong about them as they're scared of what people think of them. Instead of expecting or hoping that ministers will be perfect or good, why don't you encourage them to be honest instead. Who do you think God is closer to-- the minister who hides his imperfections or the one who shows them. Then you should be the same. Help liberate people; there are enough burdens to be fake to please everyone.

oldthennew · Apr 28, 2014

Allin,

indeed, let everything be done decently and in order.
and let all that we do be done through the leading of The Holy Spirit.

dis-unity comes from simply stepping out of the God-Ordained-Order.
the husband is the Head of the Wife, Christ is the Head of Husband
and The Father is the Head of Christ.
(and thanks be to God that we never have to worry about the Father & Son
stepping out of the Holy Order.)

we have seen many husbands/wives/parents/children - step out of the Order.
dis-functional households are definitely the norm in today's world,
from children throwing tantrums in public to husbands violently abusing
their wives, and as you pointed out in your example, 'the-wife-wearing-the-pants.
(As Paul points out, 'all un-natural-perverted behavior.)

(we love this quote that we read many years ago, it read,
'my wife is strong enough to wear the pants in the family,
but she's never had the desire to.'
in our own words, 'if I, the husband cannot rule our household
due to illness or any Biblically legitimate reason, I want my wife
to take the reins and perform all duties as God would will.
in short,
MARRIAGE should reflect Christ and His Bride,
FAMILY should reflect The Father and His children.
and Christ should not be ashamed to call us brethren.

we love the Psalm that you quoted,' we long for the day
when we see The Spirit dripping down upon the beard of
our Great and Holy High Priest, after The Order of Melchizedek'.

The_highwayman · Apr 28, 2014

Woodartdon said:

Your whole response is typical. I don't hate, rant or loath , but I was blessed to have learned early on, exactly what true and perfect agape love is and how it operates. True God like agape love is not some gooey, syrupy, love...its a love that gives what people need and not want they want and never seeks even a remote expectation of a return.

Because I am honest, you marginalize and you attack me on something that you really and absolutely have no clue about. It also provides critical insight for me into your lack of spiritual maturity. Your response seems to indicate you like a Pastor that is a push over, or one you can push over.

My responses were not out of contempt, loathing or anger, they were simply things that all pastors face and trust me those are the mild ones. While it would appear I feel loathing and anger I never did nor do I ever. I don't need you or any other church member/board member/deacon or elder to validate or approve me, God is my validation and approval, I answer to him. At the local church level I do not answer to a lay member, a board member, a deacon, or even an elder. I alone am accountable to God and held at a higher accountability to God than the lay person for your maturing, equipping and completing. Guys like you never get this and never do, but you respond with the typical way you did to me. This response should not misinterpreted that I do not listen to those in a church or take guidance form elders...that is a whole different conversation...The Pastor that never learns or who was never taught to let God alone be his approval and validation usually burn out and are out of ministry within 2 years...

There is a serious misconception of the church as to the role of the Pastor. The church demands the pastor be the end all, that is not Biblical in the least. Any truly spiritual mature believer would know this Some of my responses indicated that, but went right over your head, because that little root of bitterness you have is blinding you.

I believe a healthy church is a church in which the Pastor builds his church to be who God says they are and called them to be. A Pastor or Bible teacher can only take you so far, sooner or later you must spiritually mature on your own. 90% never grow past the personal revelation of who Jesus is to them and what he did for them. 10% will get the revelation of who Jesus is and what he did for them and go onto to get the revelation of who God says they are and finally the revelation of what God has called them to do. I do not loath, hate or get angry or rant about the 90% that stay where they are, far from it sir, it grieves my heart and breaks it, because they are missing out on everything God wants to do for them and the blessings that are bestowed for obedience.

Every born again believer is called and has a divine purpose of God for their life, just not those who are called into a ministry gift/office, this is whee we have fallen down in the church today, we have failed to educate the congregation that they are ALL ministers of reconciliation and the sole burdens of the body never rest solely on the pastor. This Bible truth is rarely taught anymore.

Sheep and SHepherds do foolish and silly things all the time, myself included, but you should never misunderstand nor mistake a true pastors heart for his sheep.

Sirk · Apr 28, 2014

The_highwayman said:

Your whole response is typical. I don't hate, rant or loath , but I was blessed to have learned early on, exactly what true and perfect agape love is and how it operates. True God like agape love is not some gooey, syrupy, love...its a love that gives what people need and not want they want and never seeks even a remote expectation of a return.

Because I am honest, you marginalize and you attack me on something that you really and absolutely have no clue about. It also provides critical insight for me into your lack of spiritual maturity. Your response seems to indicate you like a Pastor that is a push over, or one you can push over.

My responses were not out of contempt, loathing or anger, they were simply things that all pastors face and trust me those are the mild ones. While it would appear I feel loathing and anger I never did nor do I ever. I don't need you or any other church member/board member/deacon or elder to validate or approve me, God is my validation and approval, I answer to him. At the local church level I do not answer to a lay member, a board member, a deacon, or even an elder. I alone am accountable to God and held at a higher accountability to God than the lay person for your maturing, equipping and completing. Guys like you never get this and never do, but you respond with the typical way you did to me. This response should not misinterpreted that I do not listen to those in a church or take guidance form elders...that is a whole different conversation...The Pastor that never learns or who was never taught to let God alone be his approval and validation usually burn out and are out of ministry within 2 years...

There is a serious misconception of the church as to the role of the Pastor. The church demands the pastor be the end all, that is not Biblical in the least. Any truly spiritual mature believer would know this Some of my responses indicated that, but went right over your head, because that little root of bitterness you have is blinding you.

I believe a healthy church is a church in which the Pastor builds his church to be who God says they are and called them to be. A Pastor or Bible teacher can only take you so far, sooner or later you must spiritually mature on your own. 90% never grow past the personal revelation of who Jesus is to them and what he did for them. 10% will get the revelation of who Jesus is and what he did for them and go onto to get the revelation of who God says they are and finally the revelation of what God has called them to do. I do not loath, hate or get angry or rant about the 90% that stay where they are, far from it sir, it grieves my heart and breaks it, because they are missing out on everything God wants to do for them and the blessings that are bestowed for obedience.

Every born again believer is called and has a divine purpose of God for their life, just not those who are called into a ministry gift/office, this is whee we have fallen down in the church today, we have failed to educate the congregation that they are ALL ministers of reconciliation and the sole burdens of the body never rest solely on the pastor. This Bible truth is rarely taught anymore.

Sheep and SHepherds do foolish and silly things all the time, myself included, but you should never misunderstand nor mistake a true pastors heart for his sheep.

You could be my pastor! You guys have a huge target on your backs. Blessings to you Pastor Highwayman.

Woodartdon · Apr 29, 2014

If you and all the other preachers and priest's think that a 10% brag stipulates that the correct teaching about God are being presented, then you know no truths about God and are persistent in disappointing those with a heart for God! You all live in the precepts of divine inspirations that devour the basic truths about God! Now that said; I have a heart for the demands that a pastor faces and the Satan driven attacks that come from the congregations. The Gossip, backstabbing and judgmental attitudes are disgraceful. But realize this: As the confessed Shepherd of your flock, who's shoulders does the 90% failure rate fall on but your own. If you read my O.P. again you would see that Yhvh has already corrected my heart toward pastors, but that does not negate the message I am given to express about the twisting of who Yhvh is at heart and how it has been lost in traditionalism.

The_highwayman said:

Your whole response is typical. I don't hate, rant or loath , but I was blessed to have learned early on, exactly what true and perfect agape love is and how it operates. True God like agape love is not some gooey, syrupy, love...its a love that gives what people need and not want they want and never seeks even a remote expectation of a return.

Because I am honest, you marginalize and you attack me on something that you really and absolutely have no clue about. It also provides critical insight for me into your lack of spiritual maturity. Your response seems to indicate you like a Pastor that is a push over, or one you can push over.

My responses were not out of contempt, loathing or anger, they were simply things that all pastors face and trust me those are the mild ones. While it would appear I feel loathing and anger I never did nor do I ever. I don't need you or any other church member/board member/deacon or elder to validate or approve me, God is my validation and approval, I answer to him. At the local church level I do not answer to a lay member, a board member, a deacon, or even an elder. I alone am accountable to God and held at a higher accountability to God than the lay person for your maturing, equipping and completing. Guys like you never get this and never do, but you respond with the typical way you did to me. This response should not misinterpreted that I do not listen to those in a church or take guidance form elders...that is a whole different conversation...The Pastor that never learns or who was never taught to let God alone be his approval and validation usually burn out and are out of ministry within 2 years...

There is a serious misconception of the church as to the role of the Pastor. The church demands the pastor be the end all, that is not Biblical in the least. Any truly spiritual mature believer would know this Some of my responses indicated that, but went right over your head, because that little root of bitterness you have is blinding you.

I believe a healthy church is a church in which the Pastor builds his church to be who God says they are and called them to be. A Pastor or Bible teacher can only take you so far, sooner or later you must spiritually mature on your own. 90% never grow past the personal revelation of who Jesus is to them and what he did for them. 10% will get the revelation of who Jesus is and what he did for them and go onto to get the revelation of who God says they are and finally the revelation of what God has called them to do. I do not loath, hate or get angry or rant about the 90% that stay where they are, far from it sir, it grieves my heart and breaks it, because they are missing out on everything God wants to do for them and the blessings that are bestowed for obedience.

Every born again believer is called and has a divine purpose of God for their life, just not those who are called into a ministry gift/office, this is whee we have fallen down in the church today, we have failed to educate the congregation that they are ALL ministers of reconciliation and the sole burdens of the body never rest solely on the pastor. This Bible truth is rarely taught anymore.

Sheep and SHepherds do foolish and silly things all the time, myself included, but you should never misunderstand nor mistake a true pastors heart for his sheep.

The_highwayman · Apr 29, 2014

Woodartdon said:

I see clearly this is not just about me at all.....but all of US...

wow....

One thing you better understand and get into your spirit, the 90% that fail are not on any pastors shoulders, it is on the 90% that fail....I was blessed to have mentors that taught me something else very valuable in ministry...you are not going to save all of them from themselves... Pastors and ministers that are never taught this and understand it burn out...

Your hatred is making you ignorant of the Bible, stating I or any pastor personally bear the blame for the 90% that don't change would be like telling a Old Testament Prophet he is the reason The kingdoms went into exile...it was the people themselves that put themselves into exile, because they do not listen to the Man of God and change...The Prophet Jeremiah was not part of the Babylonian captivity/exile...he was taken to Egypt.

Did you ever think about that maybe you outgrew your church? It happens all the time...if a church is dead, you wont grow...

Your attacks are not driven by any talk with God or Yhvh....have you tested the spirits here? it would appear evident your hatred and bitterness has now given away to the Spirit of Error and possibly a spirit of anitchrist and all of it is a form of witchcraft, and not a message from Yhvh. You are now attacking any pastor, which means you seek to stop the proclaiming of the word of God and now are controlled by the spirit of an accuser of the brethren and friend, that is a very dangerous place to be in.

I urge you to check yourself or allow someone to help you here...the fact you are speaking things against the word of God, gives me pause and great concern for your spiritual condition..

I am praying that God almighty will deliver you from the root of bitterness and anger you have in your heart towards his shepherds as a whole...I am praying that God will send someone you can receive from, that will preach deliverance to you, I am praying that you will let this anger go against all pastors, because you will never grow spiritually until you resolve this issue. I do not know which pastor hurt you or why, but I do know, that someone is going to help you and I love you.

Sirk · Apr 29, 2014

Woodartdon said:

Dear mr woodartdon

there is some toxicity being nurtured in your heart. You have made yourself responsible FOR others behavior when in reality the Godlike perspective is to be responsible TO others thru your behavior and attitudes......I believe this is the point this good pastor is trying to make.....that, and the best followers of Jesus teach through there actions and occasionally with their words. There are so many people who have adopted your personal crusade to make others conform to their sense of righteousness that they have neglected their own hearts and have rendered themselves as a "crashing cymbals and banging gongs". If you want to use the Word as a weapon it should first be used on yourself. IMHO.

Woodartdon · Apr 30, 2014

Now you are trying to judge my heart? You as do other pastors live in denial and self justifications and your response to anyone you disagree with is to belittle and judge? You have demonstrated the heart of Satan in all it's self righteousness and self justifications and you then point a finger at me? I pray that Yhvh open your eyes to your blindness, but may I remind you that it is you who are persisting in an attack on my O.P., not me on your O.P., who is the invasive person of ridicule, loathing, bitterness and anger but you!

The_highwayman said:

I see clearly this is not just about me at all.....but all of US...

wow....

One thing you better understand and get into your spirit, the 90% that fail are not on any pastors shoulders, it is on the 90% that fail....I was blessed to have mentors that taught me something else very valuable in ministry...you are not going to save all of them from themselves... Pastors and ministers that are never taught this and understand it burn out...

Your hatred is making you ignorant of the Bible, stating I or any pastor personally bear the blame for the 90% that don't change would be like telling a Old Testament Prophet he is the reason The kingdoms went into exile...it was the people themselves that put themselves into exile, because they do not listen to the Man of God and change...The Prophet Jeremiah was not part of the Babylonian captivity/exile...he was taken to Egypt.

Did you ever think about that maybe you outgrew your church? It happens all the time...if a church is dead, you wont grow...

Your attacks are not driven by any talk with God or Yhvh....have you tested the spirits here? it would appear evident your hatred and bitterness has now given away to the Spirit of Error and possibly a spirit of anitchrist and all of it is a form of witchcraft, and not a message from Yhvh. You are now attacking any pastor, which means you seek to stop the proclaiming of the word of God and now are controlled by the spirit of an accuser of the brethren and friend, that is a very dangerous place to be in.

I urge you to check yourself or allow someone to help you here...the fact you are speaking things against the word of God, gives me pause and great concern for your spiritual condition..

I am praying that God almighty will deliver you from the root of bitterness and anger you have in your heart towards his shepherds as a whole...I am praying that God will send someone you can receive from, that will preach deliverance to you, I am praying that you will let this anger go against all pastors, because you will never grow spiritually until you resolve this issue. I do not know which pastor hurt you or why, but I do know, that someone is going to help you and I love you.

Dan_473 · Apr 30, 2014

Woodartdon said:

well, imo possibly it matters because the nt writers used the same idea... using the greek word 'kyrios' where the 4 letters are found...

my understanding is that once the jewish people stopped saying the name, the way to say it was lost... since the old written hebrew didn't have vowels... do i understand right? did i go wrong somewhere?

peace to you!

Woodartdon · Apr 30, 2014

You must be another pastor. Do you have anything specific to say about anything specific? If not then your post is nothing more then "crashing cymbals and banging gongs"! What makes you think I have not judged myself, finding myself needing the correction I am in pursuit of now? But is clear here that your judgment has been given against me, so where does that place you in the Bible!

Sirk said:

Dan_473 · Apr 30, 2014

posthuman said:

cool... thx... reminds me of the part in revelation... people from every tongue and tribe and nation...

what Lord told me about my anger at pastors

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