What of the dinosaurs?
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I'm surprised you are apparently ignorant of sociocultural anthropology as studied by some archaeologists, some focusing on the local 'socio', some the broader culture. There are other scholars that know the same basic unearthed facts, already revealed in the Bible, not needing science to detect vital facts. The physical evidences support the spiritual facts. The specific social commandments were directed to the nation Israel, not to Gentiles. Diet restrictions, marriage, criminal justice, etc. all served to set Israel apart from all other tribes of earth. Their social/cultural peculiarities never were carried over to other people groups, especially Christians. That is not to say none of those had value to other people groups. I voluntarily adhere to as much Med diet fare as is practical for better health, but it is not a sin for me to eat from the Paleo Diet. I would rather eat at a kosher cafe than eat a fast food cheeseburger, but I will not suffer eternal death for eating one without repentance.
T
Billyd, it's funny you say that the creationists here and are displaying hatred and ranting etc. And there is some, of that sadly, yes, but you and others here fail to see the extreme, burning hatred that stems from one or two particular theistic evolutionists here. It's almost like our very existence is an offense to them. How dare these creationists make us Christians look foolish in the eyes of the world!
I taught it at universities.
You are the literalist. You swear every dot, and jot of the Bible is directly inspired. So, now you beg-off. The rules only applied to some other people some of the time.
I even gave you some teaching from the Apostle Paul (or someone writing in his name).
2 Corinthians 3: 5. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6. who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter (Torah) but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
One more for good measure:
Titus 3:9. But avoid foolish controversies, and genealogies, and strife, and disputes about the Law (Torah), for they are unprofitable and worthless.
It seems that Paul knew better than the Young Earth Creationists; the Hovinds and Hams, Morris's and Gish's who scam the faithful with their Genesis mythologies, and "endless genealogies." So, Biblical Literalist- when will you follow the Bible literally?
You are the literalist. You swear every dot, and jot of the Bible is directly inspired. So, now you beg-off. The rules only applied to some other people some of the time.
I even gave you some teaching from the Apostle Paul (or someone writing in his name).
2 Corinthians 3: 5. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6. who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter (Torah) but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
One more for good measure:
Titus 3:9. But avoid foolish controversies, and genealogies, and strife, and disputes about the Law (Torah), for they are unprofitable and worthless.
It seems that Paul knew better than the Young Earth Creationists; the Hovinds and Hams, Morris's and Gish's who scam the faithful with their Genesis mythologies, and "endless genealogies." So, Biblical Literalist- when will you follow the Bible literally?
This is not a new problem.
Augustine of Hippo (A.D. 354-430) advised Christians trying to interpret Scripture in the light of scientific knowledge in his work "The Literal Meaning of Genesis" (De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim). The following translation is by J. H. Taylor in Ancient Christian Writers, Newman Press, 1982, volume 41.
“Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. I, xix, 39. {Augustine here has referred to 1 Timothy 1.7}”
Augustine of Hippo (A.D. 354-430) advised Christians trying to interpret Scripture in the light of scientific knowledge in his work "The Literal Meaning of Genesis" (De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim). The following translation is by J. H. Taylor in Ancient Christian Writers, Newman Press, 1982, volume 41.
“Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. I, xix, 39. {Augustine here has referred to 1 Timothy 1.7}”
That use of that writing's scripture reference has nothing to do with Genesis, science, the natural world. Here is that verse in context:
1 Timothy 1:5-11 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
[SUP]6 [/SUP] From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
I rarely see a supposed scholar stumble so much over something so easy to avoid.
1 Timothy 1:5-11 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
[SUP]6 [/SUP] From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
I rarely see a supposed scholar stumble so much over something so easy to avoid.
Let's review, "Al Sharpton is being allowed to pay out millions in taxes owed" and Kent Hovind filed a fake bankruptcy, was taped from jail instructing his family on how to hide assets, and last week was charges with another slew of felonies including mail fraud he committed from inside prison.
Here is a sympathetic version: Government Coming Down Harder On Kent Hovind - Forbes
Here is a sympathetic version: Government Coming Down Harder On Kent Hovind - Forbes
Take it up with St. Augustine when you get the chance. 
Aquinas on science wrote, "In discussing questions of this kind two rules are to be observed, as Augustine teaches. The first is, to hold to the truth of Scripture without wavering. The second is that since Holy Scripture can be explained in a multiplicity of senses, one should adhere to a particular explanation only in such measure as to be ready to abandon it if it be proved with certainty to be false, lest Holy Scripture be exposed to the ridicule of unbelievers, and obstacles be placed to their believing." - Thomas Aquinas, c.a. 1225 - 1274, Summa Theologica, Prima Pars, Q68. Art 1. (1273).
This seems similar to;
Luke 17
1. He said to His disciples, "It is inevitable that stumbling blocks come, but woe to him through whom they come! 2. "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumble. 3. "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
Matthew 18:
7. "Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!”
Or as the Apostle Paul wrote, "determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way" (Romans 14:13).
Possibly they were thinking of;
Lev 19:14 Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but fear your God.
Aquinas on science wrote, "In discussing questions of this kind two rules are to be observed, as Augustine teaches. The first is, to hold to the truth of Scripture without wavering. The second is that since Holy Scripture can be explained in a multiplicity of senses, one should adhere to a particular explanation only in such measure as to be ready to abandon it if it be proved with certainty to be false, lest Holy Scripture be exposed to the ridicule of unbelievers, and obstacles be placed to their believing." - Thomas Aquinas, c.a. 1225 - 1274, Summa Theologica, Prima Pars, Q68. Art 1. (1273).
This seems similar to;
Luke 17
1. He said to His disciples, "It is inevitable that stumbling blocks come, but woe to him through whom they come! 2. "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumble. 3. "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
Matthew 18:
7. "Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!”
Or as the Apostle Paul wrote, "determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way" (Romans 14:13).
Possibly they were thinking of;
Lev 19:14 Do not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block in front of the blind, but fear your God.
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I have always acknowledged that some very bright people, including scientists, believe in God -- the geneticist Francis Collins is one of them, but he also fully accepts evolution. Richard Dawkins and other very public atheists certainly know such individuals and have spoken of them in their talks. Dawkins has interviewed them, so I know that he and other so-called new atheists recognize that many Christians are very well educated.
They don't have to do much to make us look foolish. We are doing a pretty good job on our own. The absolute worst thing, assuming that he is saved, is to attempt to debate YEC with a non believer. I've been a Christian for almost twice as long as you have been alive. I have witnessed a Christian win the debate. Jesus told us to shake the dust off our sandals and move on when?
I don't see hatred in them. I see them sitting back and laughing at a large portion of those attempting to debate with them.
I love you brother.
Billy
I don't see hatred in them. I see them sitting back and laughing at a large portion of those attempting to debate with them.
I love you brother.
Billy
Have you guys not seen the father of modern day evolution? squirm in his seat as he was asked if it all started without imtelligent design. lol it so funny. I never read the past 51 pages yet. So sorry if some one else posted this. Its in youtube.
Little film that was made by a scientist. Its called. Expelled No Inteligence allowed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c63awtAyHdU
Little film that was made by a scientist. Its called. Expelled No Inteligence allowed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c63awtAyHdU
There are many brilliant scientists who are Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, or Muslim, or Agnostic (eg Charles Darwin). What they are not is a creationist.
In the Christian faith there are many living scientists who are active in faith and science. I recommend:
Ayala: Roman Catholic and biologist.
Giberson: Evangelical Protestant and physicist. He did not star in his history studies.
Miller: Roman Catholic, and biologist.
Roberts: Anglican priest and geologist.
Stearley: Evangelical Protestant, and geologist.
Young: Evangelical Protestant, and geologist.
Ayala, Francisco
2006 Darwin and Intelligent Design Minneapolis: Fortress Press
Collins, Francis S.
2006 The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief New York Free Press- Simon and Schuster
Giberson, Karl W.
2008 “Saving Darwin: How to be a Christian and believe in evolution” New York: HarperCollins
Ken Miller
1999 "Finding Darwin's God" New York: HarperCollins
Roberts, Michael
2008 "Evangelicals and Science" Greenwood Press
Young, Davis A., Ralf F. Stearley
2008 "The Bible, Rocks and Time: Geological Evidence for the Age of the Earth" Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press
In the Christian faith there are many living scientists who are active in faith and science. I recommend:
Ayala: Roman Catholic and biologist.
Giberson: Evangelical Protestant and physicist. He did not star in his history studies.
Miller: Roman Catholic, and biologist.
Roberts: Anglican priest and geologist.
Stearley: Evangelical Protestant, and geologist.
Young: Evangelical Protestant, and geologist.
Ayala, Francisco
2006 Darwin and Intelligent Design Minneapolis: Fortress Press
Collins, Francis S.
2006 The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief New York Free Press- Simon and Schuster
Giberson, Karl W.
2008 “Saving Darwin: How to be a Christian and believe in evolution” New York: HarperCollins
Ken Miller
1999 "Finding Darwin's God" New York: HarperCollins
Roberts, Michael
2008 "Evangelicals and Science" Greenwood Press
Young, Davis A., Ralf F. Stearley
2008 "The Bible, Rocks and Time: Geological Evidence for the Age of the Earth" Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press