What was the LAW that was added?

[Eccl12and13]

I am here to discuss Gods word, if you want to discuss. Feel free. but when someone comes in here with a blatently false idiology (such as the levitical priests is a law which was added) I am sorry, but why keep going on with him?

Well.....let's do as you say. Let's discuss the word of God. Let's use reason and ALL scripture.


Let's first as the question.......did God have laws that ALL men were to obey BEFORE Moses? YES! Now let's prove this;

Gen.6
[5] And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
[6] And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
[7] And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
[12] And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

So although we can read of no written law, at some point God must have given man laws for him to follow. It is obvious that man was not keeping those laws, for God's words above tells us,

"...the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.", and "...for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth."

Now did God find fault with ALL of mankind? No He did not. Let's find one that was not wicked and always thinking evil.

[8] But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
[18] But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

Now what did God say would happen to those that were wicked? Who is it that God punishes? Is it those that keep His laws or those that do not? Let's read....

[13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
[17] And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

So although we cannot read of a written law, we know for a fact that ALL of mankind was breaking God's laws, thus He brought a flood upon the earth. Let's now prove this with scripture.

Josh 24
[2] And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.

So now it is clear that those on the 'other side' of the flood knew that it was wrong to serve other god's. How they knew is not recorded. But we know that they knew it was wrong, thus the flood from God.

Question...... Was there a Levitical Priesthood at this time? NO!

Was the above the only instance we know of where we can find an example of God's laws being known of by other nations BEFORE they were given to Moses? NO! Again....although we have no place where we can go to read of God's laws written down or given, we have MANY examples of other nations knowing about God's laws BEFORE they were given to Moses.

Question....... Can we find anywhere in the word of God that there was a Levitical Priesthood during those times when God's other laws existed? NO! And why not? You cannot have a Levitical Priesthood BEFORE the tribe of Levi exists! That's where common sense and reason kicks in. Moving on....


Let's jump to when God made the covenant with the nation of Israel.

Exod.19
[9] And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD.
[11] And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

So we have God preparing the people to hear what HE will have to say to them. The laws that will be given are NOT the laws of Moses, but are the laws of GOD! Let's continue....

Exod.20
[1] And God spake all these words, saying,
[2] I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

So God starts to speak all of His laws that the nation of Israel are to keep. Let's skip to the end.....

Exod.24
[3] And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do.
[4] And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.

So AFTER God gave all of His laws to the nations that choose to follow Him, the next morning Moses wrote all of the words of the Lord down.

Question........ Was the Levitical Priesthood laws a part of those laws given to the nations by God? NO! Let's continue.....

[6] And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
[7] And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
[8] And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.

Question........ What laws were part of the covenant made between the nations and God? ONLY the laws that were spoken by God up to this point.

Question........ Was the laws of the Levitical Prieshood part of the covenant? NO!

Question........ So when did God give the laws of the Levitical Priesthood?


They were added AFTER the covenant was made with those nations that choose to follow the true and living God!


The laws of the Levites and their job as priest were NOT a part of the covenant that God made with the nations. The laws of the Levites and their 'works and deeds' of killing animals was a set of laws that were ADDED after the covenant was made.


Question....... Is the above not true?




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[Eccl12and13]

I have been born of God, and I have his spirit in me, thus i can't live in sin, as John made quite clear. (see point 3)

But the scripture does not say what you claim above. Let's read God's words for understanding.....

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5
[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


God's words tells us those that are 'born of God' CANNOT SIN! It is IMPOSSIBLE for a person 'born of God' to sin!

Are you claiming that you can NEVER sin again? Are you claiming that you "...CANNOT SIN..." as the word tells us those 'born of God' cannot do? Are you claiming that you are now a PERFECT human being incapable of ever committing a sin either in action or in thought?


Let's not ADD to God's word's. Let's read them again.......


1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5
[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


Question..... When are we 'born of God'? When will be be like Him? When will we become part of the God family?


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[eternally-gratefull]

So then, you beleive it is by works if faith is real or dead.

Your joking right?? do we have to continue to go over this? you keep twisting my words, and james words. and you don;t get it.

TRUE FAITH HAS WORKS. FALSE FAITH WILL NOT HAVE WORKS. WORKS ARE NOT THE ISSUE. FAITH OR LACK OF IS.

So it does not matter if the person was never saved, or lost his salvation, that is not the real argument.

Thats your opinion. James said a person who CLAIMS he has faith but HAS NO WORKS is a liar. Can faith save him?? If a person does not have faith, he is not saved. Salvation is the issue!

The arugemnt is, can one get to heaven having no works, being disobedient.

No, the argument is can a person does not have faith get to heaven. Works does not have anything to do with it.

You say NO! HE has dead faith. Therefore you MUST believe that works are essential to salvation. therefore you do not believe in faith alone, as in belief only.

And again you would be in error. James was exposing impostors in the church, who were claiming to have faith and be a true part of the church, He exposed their lack of faith by proving they had no works, As he said, You show me (prove) your faith by no works, and I will show (prove) my faith BY MY WORK.



[QUOTE]So then it is by God's grace + if we have works or not if we are saved in the end.[/quote]

And again you would be wrong. If I have true faith, I will work. it is not a matter of maybe I will or maybe I will not. nor even a matter of how much work i do, it is a matter of do I have real faith or just mere belief.

Yet you want to twist this and say this proves you can lose salvation? you don;t even get what james said!

If not then why not?

Because james is not about works. it is about who has true faith, and who is an impostor coming to church claiming to have faith. but does not have any faith at all. and giving the church a bad name.

So then your saying you no longer believe that if a Christian returns to a life of sin, God will bring him back? Those were your words not mine.

No, I am saying a Christian can not LIVE IN SIN. Living in sin is living as you did before you were saved. As John said, anyone who does this has never seen God, nor known God.

1 John 3: Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

God never promised us we would be sinnless. And he never said we would not fail, What he did promise, is that we CAN NOT LIVE IN SIN.

Or are you saying if he begins a life of sin, it is not really sin anymore?

I am saying what John said. your argument is with him!

or are you saying he was never saved.

1 John 3: Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

No, John said that! NEVER SEEN GOD, Means he was never saved. get it?? or do you still want to argue?

Yes it means he is forbidden, not allowed, does not mean he cannot because it is impossible, again that would mean no freewill.

has nothing to do with freewill. it has everything to do with being made a new creature. Being given the spirit, who will lead us in all areas. Having a repentant heart which is gratefull for what God has done for him, and having a knowledge of how truely evil we were before we came to Christ, and NOT WaNTING TO RETURN TO THAT PLACE!

SO then you CANNOT make the CHOICE to start sinning.

How can I make a choice to start something I have been unable to stop doing? this makes no sense. Yes, i no longer live in sin, But i still sin. I have never stopped. neither have you! if we say we have no sin, we decieve ourselves. are you decieved?

IF it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to make that CHOICE then when we become Christians we lose freewill - Correct?
If not explain how not be able to make a choice is still freewill.

twist it however you want. But you do not even comprehend what it means., If you had Gods spirit in you, and understood how truly sinful we are, you would not make such accusations.

This always gets you nowhere. My argument is NOT with John, I believe John, we cannot live in sin and go to heaven.

Well John never said we can;t live in sin and get to heaven. he said we can;t live in sin, And if we live in sin we have NEVER SEEN OR NOWN GOD. You want to add words to scripture. which are not there. This is evil in and of itself.

MY ARGUMENT IS WITH YOUR INTERPRETATION OF JOHN you know that, who are you trying to fool with this who argument with John?

My interpretation literally says what John said. Your interpretation is flawed because you have to add words and change meaning to the text.

Again, your argument is with John.

You have never stated that if a Christian returns to a life of sin, God will make his life so miserable he will return to the faith?

Again. Living in sin is living as you did before you were saved, One can walk away and struggle with sin issues, AND NOT LIVE IN SIN. And when he does this. god will chasten him. I guess you think Gods chastening will not have any affect? Wow why do you distrust the power of God so much?

If I show you that you said will you then admit it? Or will you at least say you dont ebleve that anymore? This is why it's so hard to talk to you, your flip flopping in your views.

I am not flip flopping anything, Your twisting everything I say, this is why we can;t communicate. because you don;t listen or understand a word anyone says who does not agree with you. all you want to do is fight,

No, I think about what you say, and I cant ignore the HUGE contradictions you make, and I will not ignore them.

yeah, And I just proves what you assumed were contradictions were not contradictions at all. And all you did was again twist what i said.

Thats why no one can discuss scripture with you. You twist the word of God, you twist what they say, you twist everything. As long as it makes them look bad and you look good. thats all that matters to you.

It is like your gospel. it is all about YOU. and nothing about God!

 

[Eccl12and13]

I am here to discuss Gods word, if you want to discuss. Feel free. but when someone ocmes in here with a blatently false idiology (such as the levitical priests is a law which was added) I am sorry, but why keep going on with him?

I have proven with the word's of God that the Levitical Priesthood was NOT a part of the covenant that God made with the nations.

I have proven with the word's of God that the Levitical Priesthood was added AFTER God gave His other laws to the nations.



Will you at least consider reading the posts I have concerning the topic of the law that was added? Here they are below;

This is the Law that God Added to His Other Laws. Part 1
This is the Law that God Added to His Other Laws. Part 2


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[eternally-gratefull]

But the scripture does not say what you claim above. Let's read God's words for understanding.....

1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5
[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


God's words tells us those that are 'born of God' CANNOT SIN! It is IMPOSSIBLE for a person 'born of God' to sin!

No it does not say that. it says they can not live in sin. The english text here is a poor translation. John did not say in his first chapter if we say we have no sin we are liars. then come back a few chap0ters later and say we can live sinless.

Are you claiming that you can NEVER sin again? Are you claiming that you "...CANNOT SIN..." as the word tells us those 'born of God' cannot do? Are you claiming that you are now a PERFECT human being incapable of ever committing a sin either in action or in thought?

rolls eyes. Try reading what I said, and stop assuming you kinow. if you read what I said, you would not be making false claims.

Let's not ADD to God's word's. Let's read them again.......


1 John 3
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5
[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


Question..... When are we 'born of God'? When will be be like Him? When will we become part of the God family?


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when are we born of God?

When we have faith in his finished work of the cross/. it is called being born again, being adopted/ being made alive in Christ. Regenerate, Renewed. watever you want to call it.

 

[Grandpa]

You have 3 people trying to show you your in a contradiction. If you want to pretend your not, then get frustrated and call names because you are, then be my guest.

I'm not frustrated. I'm just trying to show 3 legalists that the gospel is not works based.

The only contradiction exists in your own mind. I've tried to show you that but I'm not certain you even read my posts.

Show me where I contradict myself and I will clear it up. Don't show me how what I say contradicts your philosophy, I already know all about that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have proven with the word's of God that the Levitical Priesthood was NOT a part of the covenant that God made with the nations.

I have proven with the word's of God that the Levitical Priesthood was added AFTER God gave His other laws to the nations.

And this has bearing on anyones salvation how?

Will you at least consider reading the posts I have concerning the topic of the law that was added? Here they are below;

This is the Law that God Added to His Other Laws. Part 1
This is the Law that God Added to His Other Laws. Part 2


.

what would it add to the discussion? If your saying the levitical law was added. and this has anything to do with salvation. you would be incorrect. because the levitical law never saved anyone, jew or gentile!

And by the way, do you know that a gentile who wanted to be added to gods people had to ALSO obey the levitical law??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not frustrated. I'm just trying to show 3 legalists that the gospel is not works based.

The only contradiction exists in your own mind. I've tried to show you that but I'm not certain you even read my posts.

Show me where I contradict myself and I will clear it up. Don't show me how what I say contradicts your philosophy, I already know all about that.

becarefull. He will try to show you. then when you respond he will twist your words and make you say something you never said!

 

[feedm3]

Your joking right?? do we have to continue to go over this? you keep twisting my words, and james words. and you don;t get it.

[

I have not twisted anything and you know it. You just cant deal with your own implications.

TRUE FAITH HAS WORKS. FALSE FAITH WILL NOT HAVE WORKS. WORKS ARE NOT THE ISSUE. FAITH OR LACK OF IS.

Again "true faith" is determined by works. If we MUST have true faith to go to heaven, then your saying works are essential to salavtion if by works are faith is true or false.

Twisted? Or Implication?

Thats your opinion. James said a person who CLAIMS he has faith but HAS NO WORKS is a liar. Can faith save him?? If a person does not have faith, he is not saved. Salvation is the issue!

I agree with James. You seem to as well. Then you say works have nothing to do with salvation, at the same time saying we must have works to have true faith.

YOU ARE STILL JUST TRYING TO REWORD A CONDRATICTION

No, the argument is can a person does not have faith get to heaven. Works does not have anything to do with it.

Then your saying a person does not have to have true faith to get to heaven if it is by works one has true faith.

So do we have to have true faith to receive heaven?

If yes - then it is by works we have true faith, then works are eseential to salavation.

If no - then you have heaven filled with people having dead fake faith.

You cannot escape this, until you revise. YOU KNOW THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE

And again you would be in error. James was exposing impostors in the church, who were claiming to have faith and be a true part of the church, He exposed their lack of faith by proving they had no works, As he said, You show me (prove) your faith by no works, and I will show (prove) my faith BY MY WORK.

Agreed, works show true faith, true faith is essential to salvation, therfore works are sinse they make true or false faith.

I KNOW YOU GET THIS YOU JUST CANT DEAL WITH IT

And again you would be wrong. If I have true faith, I will work. it is not a matter of maybe I will or maybe I will not. nor even a matter of how much work i do, it is a matter of do I have real faith or just mere belief.

If you have "true faith you will work" - again making your work essential to having true faith.

You just keep reapting the same thing, you are saying works are esential to true faith, and true faith eseintal to salavtion.

That makes works essential to salvation!

Yet you want to twist this and say this proves you can lose salvation? you don;t even get what james said!

Okay for the sake of arguemtn, never had salvation. AND? Why not? becuse of not haveing true faith, determined by not having works, thus works are essential.

You say this over and over

God never promised us we would be sinnless. And he never said we would not fail, What he did promise, is that we CAN NOT LIVE IN SIN.

Why? Becuse we wont want to. If it's because of want, then it is poosible to walk away.

If it is NOT possible as you say for use to CHOOSE to want then we have no freewill.

Slice how you want, it forces the same conclusion.

I am saying what John said. your argument is with him!

Where did John say we will not have the chioce to want to sin?

1 John 3: Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

No, John said that! NEVER SEEN GOD, Means he was never saved. get it?? or do you still want to argue?

Why never saved? Living in sin. Yet its impossible for you to ever do this according to you, so your saying you have no sin. Or is it possible for you to sin, just not live in sin?

How can I make a choice to start something I have been unable to stop doing? this makes no sense. Yes, i no longer live in sin, But i still sin. I have never stopped. neither have you! if we say we have no sin, we decieve ourselves. are you decieved

So your saying there is no such thing as people who stop sinning, and fall back into sin?

According to you they were never saved. So by them living in sin, they do not have salavtion.

So living in sin/not living in sin is essential to salvation.

twist it however you want. But you do not even comprehend what it means., If you had Gods spirit in you, and understood how truly sinful we are, you would not make such accusations.

You cry twist, never show how or where this is done. You know nothign is twisted, if it was, you would be able to at least give one example.

You cant beleive what you teach.

I am not flip flopping anything, Your twisting everything I say, this is why we can;t communicate. because you don;t listen or understand a word anyone says who does not agree with you. all you want to do is fight,
yeah, And I just proves what you assumed were contradictions were not contradictions at all. And all you did was again twist what i said.

Your still in condratiction. You have not changed that. No I dont want to fight, that is why I try so hard to NOT talk with you, but if I dont you poke at me until I do.

I am tired of apoliging to you, your attacking everyone who beleives they must obey God to get to heaven, and trying to convince them of the evil feeling you have that they are trying to earn.

That is evil for anyone to try and convince another of. You who do this will have to answer for it.

Believing you cant fall into sin is a trap from Satan, because now how can you ever correct yourself, sense you wont be able to see when you fall?

Heb 5:9, Ecc 12:13, Luke 17:10 all tell us our duty is to obey God, and your fighting tooth and nail to prove that we are earning, despite teh fact Jesus tells us we are not earnign anything but doing ONLY that which is our duty.

You are a worker of Satan, I dont say that lightly, and I know it is a harsh thing to say.

You are persecuting poeple on here because be they beleive they cannot live in sin and go to heaven. You want them to believe sin has nothign to do with their salavtion, because you have been tricked into thinking if your obeying then yoru deserving and earning.

I expose your condatictions ONLY so others can see their is no weight in what your saying, and they should continue to believe they must obey Almightly God.

 

[Eccl12and13]

And this has bearing on anyones salvation how?

what would it add to the discussion? If your saying the levitical law was added. and this has anything to do with salvation. you would be incorrect. because the levitical law never saved anyone, jew or gentile!

And by the way, do you know that a gentile who wanted to be added to gods people had to ALSO obey the levitical law??

ALL that choose to follow the true and living God had to keep ALL of His laws.

And the bearing this has on the topic is this. There are some, even most that believe they are not under God's laws. They believe that ALL of God's laws have been nailed to His cross. This is not the case.

The truth of the matter is that if you do not obey God's laws, Christian AND sinner you will not enter into His kingdom.

The Christian that has turned away from sinning must continue to do so for entrance into God's kingdom, and the sinner that has not stopped sinning must stop for entrance into God's kingdom.

Teaching that faith ALONE is all that is needed for salvation is not correct. A person needs to have faith in the words of God then OBEY those words they now have faith in.


Heb.5
[9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

1 Pet.4
[17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?


Salvation comes to those that OBEY God and keep His commandments.


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[Eccl12and13]

what would it add to the discussion?

At least you now know that a law was added. And the law that was added was that of the Levitical Priesthood.



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[angelofmercy]

ALL that choose to follow the true and living God had to keep ALL of His laws.

And the bearing this has on the topic is this. There are some, even most that believe they are not under God's laws. They believe that ALL of God's laws have been nailed to His cross. This is not the case.

The truth of the matter is that if you do not obey God's laws, Christian AND sinner you will not enter into His kingdom.

The Christian that has turned away from sinning must continue to do so for entrance into God's kingdom, and the sinner that has not stopped sinning must stop for entrance into God's kingdom.

Teaching that faith ALONE is all that is needed for salvation is not correct. A person needs to have faith in the words of God then OBEY those words they now have faith in.


Heb.5
[9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

1 Pet.4
[17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?


Salvation comes to those that OBEY God and keep His commandments.


.

This makes no sense. I ask you, what power does a law have over one who has died?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[

I have not twisted anything and you know it. You just cant deal with your own implications.



Again "true faith" is determined by works. If we MUST have true faith to go to heaven, then your saying works are essential to salavtion if by works are faith is true or false.

Twisted? Or Implication?

This is why no one can talk with you. It is not an implication. It is a twist of What James says, and contradicts other aspects of scripture.

Paul says we are saved by grace through faith, not of WORKS. Lest any man should boast (of earning his own salvation)
Paul said Abraham was saved by faith. Not of any of the work he did. And makes it clear. if we was saved by his works, he would have something to Boast of.
James said that there are some in the church who are hearers not doers of the word. They have mere belief, but they have no faith. According to both of Paul's examples (I only used 2 of his many examples) someone who does not have faith was never saved.

All 3 in agreement, yet you want to twist James, who clearly said zero works = zero faith, into some sort of twisted means of saying we can LOSE salvation. which is not even close to the case.

I agree with James. You seem to as well. Then you say works have nothing to do with salvation, at the same time saying we must have works to have true faith.

YOU ARE STILL JUST TRYING TO REWORD A CONDRATICTION

Your the one contradicting. James did not say if we do not do enough works, or stop doing work we will lose salvation, thats YOUR TWISTED VERSION. James said if we SAY WE HAVE FAITH, but have zero works. Can that faith save us? A simple question which should be given to all in the church who claim faith, but still live licentious lifestyles. Are they saved? Should they not inspect their own lives and faith to see that they have failed to repent and given another chance? James seems to think so. That's why he confronted them. James did not say they must have work to have true faith. He said they must have true faith, WHICH WOULD PRODUCE WORKS.

Then your saying a person does not have to have true faith to get to heaven if it is by works one has true faith.

No, your twisting me to say this. You want me to contradict Paul and Jesus. I can;t do that. True faith WILL PRODUCE TRUE WORK. If Abraham did not have faith in what God said, we would never have heard about him. But he did have true faith. that why he did the works God wanted him to. Yet even he failed to trust God in everything and committed grave sins. Did he lose his salvation because he did not do enough work. and sinned gravely??

So do we have to have true faith to receive heaven?

If yes - then it is by works we have true faith, then works are eseential to salavation.

If no - then you have heaven filled with people having dead fake faith.

You cannot escape this, until you revise. YOU KNOW THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE

How does it make sense? Paul said NOT BY WORKS. Can I cause James to contradict Paul? Not by works of righteousness which we have done, But by the washing and renewing of the hs.

You want to make it. By the works we have done, and by the washing of men (baptism) we MAY be renewed to new life. The contradiction is in your head because YOU REFUSE TO HARMONIZE SCRIPTURE and REFUSE TO SEE WHAT WE ARE SAYING!

Agreed, works show true faith, true faith is essential to salvation, therfore works are sinse they make true or false faith.

I KNOW YOU GET THIS YOU JUST CANT DEAL WITH IT

I can deal with it, you can't

Saved by faith, not by works. Believe in the name of Jesus and you WILL BE (not might be) Justified by FAITH Apart from works. It is all over the NT, you just can't deal with it, because you would have to admit your wrong. And your to proud to do it.

If you have "true faith you will work" - again making your work essential to having true faith.

You just keep reapting the same thing, you are saying works are esential to true faith, and true faith eseintal to salavtion.

That makes works essential to salvation!

Okay for the sake of arguemtn, never had salvation. AND? Why not? becuse of not haveing true faith, determined by not having works, thus works are essential.

You say this over and over

No. I say over and over if you do not have faith, you will not be saved. Works have nothing to do with it.

We are SAVED before we do our first work. so how can works be essential? Works just show us we are born of God. It does not even help anyone else. because people do work who do not have faiht in God. thus work can not help us determine if someone is saved or not. it can only help us determine if OUR ATTITUDE IS RIGHT WITH GOD or not.

Why? Becuse we wont want to. If it's because of want, then it is poosible to walk away.

If it is NOT possible as you say for use to CHOOSE to want then we have no freewill.

Slice how you want, it forces the same conclusion.

There is only one conclusion. John said those who sin have never seen or Known God. This someone who plays church for awhile and then returns to a life of sin (his own vomit) proves they have never been saved period. Ignore it all you want. It does not make your belief true. We can;t force our beliefs on God. God is the final judge. and he gave us his word to prove what he says.
Why go forward. You do the same thing every time. You call me a liar. You twist my words. You puff yourself up in pride THINKING you know it all. Why go? You actions and twisting is all anyone needs who has an open mind to see what is true and what is not true. Enjoy!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ALL that choose to follow the true and living God had to keep ALL of His laws.

Yep, and the only one who did this was Christ, thus ALL have sinned and fall short. NO ONE WAS EVER SAVED BY THE LAW.

And the bearing this has on the topic is this. There are some, even most that believe they are not under God's laws. They believe that ALL of God's laws have been nailed to His cross. This is not the case.

Nope. the penalty of Gods laws (Condemnation and death) has been nailed to the cross. It had to be, because EVERYONE HAS SINNED (BROKEN GODS LAWS) THUS BY THE LAW, NO ONE CAN SAVE THEMSELVES.

The truth of the matter is that if you do not obey God's laws, Christian AND sinner you will not enter into His kingdom.

The truth is you have already failed, and will continue to fail until you die. If the Blood of Christ does not wash you, You have no hope. because you will NEVER BE ABLE TO STAND IN FRONT OF A HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS GOD OF YOUR OWN MERIT. YOU HAVE ALREADY FAILED>

The Christian that has turned away from sinning must continue to do so for entrance into God's kingdom, and the sinner that has not stopped sinning must stop for entrance into God's kingdom.

Then no one will make it. As John said, if we (Christians) say we HAVE NO SIN, we are LIARS, and THERE IS NO TRUTH IN US.

Teaching that faith ALONE is all that is needed for salvation is not correct. A person needs to have faith in the words of God then OBEY those words they now have faith in.

A person does have to have faith. But God does not expect us to be perfect. HE KNOWS WE CAN:T BE. WHy do you want to put yourself back under law. the law condemns you, and will condemn you for ALL ETERNITY.

Heb.5
[9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

1 Pet.4
[17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?


Salvation comes to those that OBEY God and keep His commandments.


.

Obay the gospel. What is the gospel? He did not say obey the law, he said obay the gospel. And people will be condemned for not obaying th egospel. but trusting in their own flawed false gospel.

He who believes is not condemned, but passed from death to life. he who does not believe is condemned already, why? they did not believe in the only name of Christ. THEY DISOBEYED THE GOSPEL>

 

[eternally-gratefull]

At least you now know that a law was added. And the law that was added was that of the Levitical Priesthood.



.

lol.. Did that law ever save anyone? Can you give a yes or no answer?

 

[feedm3]

This is why no one can talk with you. It is not an implication. It is a twist of What James says, and contradicts other aspects of scripture.

Paul says we are saved by grace through faith, not of WORKS. Lest any man should boast (of earning his own salvation)
Paul said Abraham was saved by faith. Not of any of the work he did. And makes it clear. if we was saved by his works, he would have something to Boast of.
James said that there are some in the church who are hearers not doers of the word. They have mere belief, but they have no faith. According to both of Paul's examples (I only used 2 of his many examples) someone who does not have faith was never saved.

All 3 in agreement, yet you want to twist James, who clearly said zero works = zero faith, into some sort of twisted means of saying we can LOSE salvation. which is not even close to the case.





Your the one contradicting. James did not say if we do not do enough works, or stop doing work we will lose salvation, thats YOUR TWISTED VERSION. James said if we SAY WE HAVE FAITH, but have zero works. Can that faith save us? A simple question which should be given to all in the church who claim faith, but still live licentious lifestyles. Are they saved? Should they not inspect their own lives and faith to see that they have failed to repent and given another chance? James seems to think so. That's why he confronted them. James did not say they must have work to have true faith. He said they must have true faith, WHICH WOULD PRODUCE WORKS.



No, your twisting me to say this. You want me to contradict Paul and Jesus. I can;t do that. True faith WILL PRODUCE TRUE WORK. If Abraham did not have faith in what God said, we would never have heard about him. But he did have true faith. that why he did the works God wanted him to. Yet even he failed to trust God in everything and committed grave sins. Did he lose his salvation because he did not do enough work. and sinned gravely??



How does it make sense? Paul said NOT BY WORKS. Can I cause James to contradict Paul? Not by works of righteousness which we have done, But by the washing and renewing of the hs.

You want to make it. By the works we have done, and by the washing of men (baptism) we MAY be renewed to new life. The contradiction is in your head because YOU REFUSE TO HARMONIZE SCRIPTURE and REFUSE TO SEE WHAT WE ARE SAYING!




I can deal with it, you can't

Saved by faith, not by works. Believe in the name of Jesus and you WILL BE (not might be) Justified by FAITH Apart from works. It is all over the NT, you just can't deal with it, because you would have to admit your wrong. And your to proud to do it.



No. I say over and over if you do not have faith, you will not be saved. Works have nothing to do with it.

We are SAVED before we do our first work. so how can works be essential? Works just show us we are born of God. It does not even help anyone else. because people do work who do not have faiht in God. thus work can not help us determine if someone is saved or not. it can only help us determine if OUR ATTITUDE IS RIGHT WITH GOD or not.





There is only one conclusion. John said those who sin have never seen or Known God. This someone who plays church for awhile and then returns to a life of sin (his own vomit) proves they have never been saved period. Ignore it all you want. It does not make your belief true. We can;t force our beliefs on God. God is the final judge. and he gave us his word to prove what he says.
Why go forward. You do the same thing every time. You call me a liar. You twist my words. You puff yourself up in pride THINKING you know it all. Why go? You actions and twisting is all anyone needs who has an open mind to see what is true and what is not true. Enjoy!

Did not deal with anything. Contradictions still there. Paul does not contradict James, your interpretations of what they are saying is what is contradicting. I am tired of showing you, if you want to stay in a paradox, go for it. As long as they are there, you arguments have zero weight.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did not deal with anything. Contradictions still there. Paul does not contradict James, your interpretations of what they are saying is what is contradicting. I am tired of showing you, if you want to stay in a paradox, go for it. As long as they are there, you arguments have zero weight.

lol. whatever. I will trust God. not any man. So go on believing what you will. It is your eternity at stake. not mine. As for my eternity. My faith is in Christ. Not myself.

 

[Grandpa]

Did not deal with anything. Contradictions still there. Paul does not contradict James, your interpretations of what they are saying is what is contradicting. I am tired of showing you, if you want to stay in a paradox, go for it. As long as they are there, you arguments have zero weight.

Ahhh. The truth comes out.

Those who mis-interpret your works based gospel are contradicting themselves.

I count myself blessed to be among them.

 

[Eccl12and13]

lol.. Did that law ever save anyone? Can you give a yes or no answer?

First of all..... Now you know that a law was ADDED to God's already existing laws. And that law was the Levitical Priesthood. Something you earlier claimed was,

"...a blatently false idiology (such as the levitical priests is a law which was added)..." Post #89 Page 5

Next..... The laws of the Levitical Priesthood could NEVER save anyone. I, nor God's word ever said they could.....as a matter of fact the scriptures clearly states this;

Heb.10
[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.


But now for another lesson........


Do you know which law DOES give life?


Rom.7
[10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.


.

 

[feedm3]

Ahhh. The truth comes out.

Those who mis-interpret your works based gospel are contradicting themselves.

I count myself blessed to be among them.

I said his interpretations of what Paul and James are saying is contraindication.

How you got what you said out of that is beyond me. It shows how you read my statemnts, just as you do the Bible, you hear what you want to hear. EG "likes" it though, go figure.

If my gospel is works based, then I am blessed to be a part of it, seeing you all just fight to hold on to sin, and still enter the gates of heaven.

If obeying God is a works based gospel, then I am guilty. Not ashamed. I will not join your fight for sin.