What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

seoulsearch · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

One of the results of these events is that it's making me come face-to-face with most everything about myself and my life.

For all we achieve, for all we think we know, for all we think we have done or accumulated, what good does any of it do if we can't use it, or if all of what we have or can do, is useless when it comes to helping someone we love? I have been asking myself this a lot lately.

And these are the questions I ask over and over again when I find myself looking in the mirror: "What good is my life, or anything I supposedly think I can do, if I can't effectively use it to relieve (these people's) suffering?"

For instance, I don't consider myself to be a writer, but writing is what I've done all my life. I can write out my inquiries here, but what good is is that if I can't find something worthwhile to write to the ones I am writing about? I have been asking God to help me formulate something to write to them that will be comforting, as well as Scripturally sound.

Thank you all very much for sharing your own struggles. It's inspiring to find other people who are choosing to look at the glass half full, no matter how many spills the glass may have taken.

Angela53510 · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

If anyone is feeling suicidal, and they want to talk, there are lots of options. There are suicide hot lines in a lot of countries. Talk to a friend, anyone. Don't be embarrassed. The worst thing for a friend to hear about is that someone they cared about committed suicide. They will torment themselves till the day they die, because they should have noticed it, they should have intervened, although the friend gave no sign they were planning to kill themselves.

If you are reading this, please send me a pm. I am trained in counseling, I've been through a lot myself. God says,

"This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him." Deut. 30:19-20a

Please chose life!

seoulsearch · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Angela53510 said:

Angela,

Thank you for this wonderfully loving and thoughtful post.

And thank you so very much for showing people who are struggling with these issues compassion and help... instead of of judgment.

As I said, many people I grew up around felt that if you struggled with suicidal thoughts, you were not a true believer and should be treated as such (an unbeliever, who is to be shunned.) It's so comforting to learn that not all who claim to be Christians feel this way.

God bless you for all you do for others, even as you soldier through your own challenges. <3

Anyone who has written about their own struggles here, or those of someone they know, will also be added to my prayer list. Thank you all so much.

Spokenpassage · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

I prefer to call it 'Perseverance of the Saints,' since it doesn't make it sound so openly antinominian (people who believe Christians aren't under any obligation to obey the commandments of God).

Of the different aspects of the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22, 23), we read that joy is among the list. Understanding that these characteristics in that passage are communicated to the believer through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in varying degrees, it is safe to conclude that believers enjoy an eternal, profound, and secure happiness in Christ, even in grief, in pain, and in sorrow."Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls." (1 Peter 1:8-9).

It is possible, yes, that a believer may experience deep, heart-crushing grief to the point of being "overwhelmed by excessive sorrow" (2 Cor. 2:7). It is possible to have that profound joy in Christ augmented, supressed, or even crippled/hindered as it was of David: "Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit" (Psalm 51:12). Ah! But we read in Scripture that God does not give his people to utter despair, "For the Lord will not cast off forever, but, though he cause grief, he will have compassion according to the abundance of his steadfast love" (Lam. 3:31, 32). And, "The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end; they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness" (Lam. 3:22, 23).

To your questions, beginning with the first:

"If a person believes that nothing they can do will compromise their salvation, what would keep them from committing suicide, if they came to that point? Would they refrain because God commands us not to kill?"

Their newly created and regenerate heart that is lead by the Holy Spirit, for he said, "I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules" (Eze. 36:26, 27). You are called to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Phil. 2:12, 13).

"And what about, what I personally call, "The Saul Dilemma"--in the Bible, King Saul opted to commit suicide rather than fall into the hands of his enemies and be subjected to their torture (1 Samuel 31)."

Saul shown himself to have been unregenerate in his life, even though as a king he was anointed with Holy Spirit. In the Old Testament we find that certain and divinely ordained offices came with an anointing of the Holy Spirit to have blessed the administration and success of that office. It did not guarantee that all of them that succeeded the throne were regenerate and saved. Notice that after the Holy Spirit had departed from Saul that his life as king dramatically changed and his own victories were hindered, and eventually his throne removed from under him.

"If you had the option of killing yourself vs. falling into the hands of your enemies (or, let's say, a long-term, painful, and terminal illness), what would you do?"

I would suffer, "For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us," (Rom 8:18), and that "for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose" (vv 28). What is of his purpose? "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son. (vv. 29).

"Am I understanding correctly, or would someone who believes in Once Saved, Always Saved be at peace with the thought of killing themselves, and yet still making it to heaven?"

Genuine, converted believers would want to please their Lord and Savior, and the thought of ending their life is distant for the most part.

PrynceNY · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Though i am not one to condemn only God has that authority, i will say as the scriptures says "whoever endures to the end shall be saved". As tragic suicide is, by resorting to such extreme measures you are not enduring to the end. Not to mention in a sense you are giving up on God by taking it in your hands & not relying on him to help you through your tribulations

bestbefore1973 · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

seoulsearch said:

I very much doubt the bible will answer these questions. I think you should seek an answer from the spirit himself, or ask him to send someone to you who'll answer them.

I'd tell you if I knew, but I don't.

That's surprising since I've thought seriously about committing suicide, I've researched and studied the bible to this problem but I came out short.

All I know is that God may be a multidimensional being who has already seen your life at the point of your suicide, and your life lived if you didn't commit suicide.

So it's like a line that splits, which we don't see but he does. It only would apply to those he creates that die before they make a choice or have it prevented (Such as abortion)

Now that's a way out non biblical answer, the best one I came up with.

Myrtleford70 · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

I sincerely hope it doesn't take someone to hell as my dad had a strong faith but also struggled with depression and took his own life.

joaniemarie · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

PrynceNY said:

Jesus endured till the end. We are more than conquerors through Christ who LOVED us. Not conquerors through our works of endurance. Looking to Jesus Who is the Author and Finisher of our faith. Rom.8:31-39

[SUP]31 [/SUP]What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
[SUP]
32 [/SUP]He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
[SUP]
33 [/SUP]Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
[SUP]
34 [/SUP]Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
[SUP]
35 [/SUP]Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril,
or sword?
[SUP]
36 [/SUP]As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
[SUP]
37 [/SUP]Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
[SUP]
38 [/SUP]For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
[SUP]
39 [/SUP]Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Thanks to Jesus who accomplished a finished work., nothing can separate us from the Love of God now that we are IN Christ. Not even if it's our own confusion.

bestbefore1973 · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Myrtleford70 said:

By many possible ways we all have to die. But there is only one way to die peacefully

In your sleep

Every other way of dying creates unfortunate dilemma.

dcontroversal · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Roughsoul1991 said:

This sin is unbelief into the work of Jesus and one who will not believe in the work of Jesus and the source of his power cannot be forgiven and saved!

FreeNChrist · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Because they have been bought at a great price. They are not their own. They belong to Another, and it is He who decides when it is time to bring them home to Himself.

dcontroversal · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Myrtleford70 said:

The only sin that cannot be forgiven is the failure to believe and acknowledge Jesus and his work on your behalf....

Samson asked for his strength back to not only kill himself but also get revenge on the Philistine Lord's for taking his eyes and making sport of him....God granted his strength knowing full well he was about to kill himself and the 7000 Philistine Lords

God's holiness would not have done that if it had been sin!

mailmandan · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Roughsoul1991 said:

The "blasphemy against the Spirit" is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and Matthew 12:22-32. The term blasphemy may be generally defined as "defiant irreverence." This case of blasphemy is a specific one, called "the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" in Matthew 12:31. In Matthew 12:31-32, the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that the Lord was possessed by the demon "Beelzebub" (Matthew 12:24). Now notice that in Mark 3:30 Jesus is very specific about what they did to commit "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit." This was not something that born again Christians committed. The sin that is unpardonable for us is the state of continued unbelief.

PrynceNY · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

joaniemarie said:

Jesus endured till the end. We are more than conquerors through Christ who LOVED us. Not conquerors through our works of endurance. Looking to Jesus Who is the Author and Finisher of our faith. Rom.8:31-39 [SUP]31 [/SUP]What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? [SUP] 32 [/SUP]He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? [SUP] 33 [/SUP]Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. [SUP] 34 [/SUP]Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. [SUP] 35 [/SUP]Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [SUP] 36 [/SUP]As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. [SUP] 37 [/SUP]Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. [SUP] 38 [/SUP]For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [SUP] 39 [/SUP]Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Thanks to Jesus who accomplished a finished work., nothing can separate us from the Love of God now that we are IN Christ. Not even if it's our own confusion.

Never implied "works endurance". Even Paul stated I have kept the faith I have finished the race. He endured to the end through faith in Christ.

NetChaplain · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

[TABLE="width: 608"]
[TR]
[TD]2Ti 1:7 "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
If we're not born again we are not in Christ and thus our profession of faith is untrue, and the above passage cannot be the condition of one unsaved!

Galatea · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Hello, I believe in the doctrine of once saved, always saved. I don't know that I can add much light, since what I wanted to say as already been said by others. I think mainly it is knowing that God loves us no matter what the circumstances of our lives may be in that keeps people from falling completely into despair. It is a sense of security, no matter what happens- God still loves, and will never leave us nor forsake us.

People who commit suicide are sick, they are not in a right frame of mind. I know God does not hold illness against people, so He would not hold mental illness against one of His own.

Above all, God is merciful and ever loving, longsuffering.

I hope the people you know will get better, I would suggest they see a doctor to be treated for depression. Please don't feel that it is all up to you to get them well.

God bless.

Utah · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

seoulsearch said:

Hello Everyone,

I apologize if this is a topic that has already been debated to death. I did a topic search on both "Once Saved, Always Saved" as well as the subject of suicide, but I didn't find the specifics of what I was hoping people could answer.

I grew up in a church that does not believe in Once Saved, Always Saved, but several people whom I currently know and highly respect believe in this teaching, and their influence has led me to try to study it as in-depth as possible.

If a person believes that nothing they can do will compromise their salvation, what would keep them from committing suicide, if they came to that point? Would they refrain because God commands us not to kill?

And what about, what I personally call, "The Saul Dilemma"--in the Bible, King Saul opted to commit suicide rather than fall into the hands of his enemies and be subjected to their torture (1 Samuel 31).

If you had the option of killing yourself vs. falling into the hands of your enemies (or, let's say, a long-term, painful, and terminal illness), what would you do?

Am I understanding correctly, or would someone who believes in Once Saved, Always Saved be at peace with the thought of killing themselves, and yet still making it to heaven?

(I'm asking because this is the complete opposite of what I was taught as a child--we were told that suicide was pretty much a guaranteed ticket to hell, although they did say that in the end, only God knows.)

I am very new to the Once Saved, Always Saved teaching, so I apologize if any of my questions seem naive or out of place. However, I have not found a clear answer to these issues in my studies and would appreciate any input you may have.

Thank you, and God bless.

I'm a conservative Christian living in New Jersey -- suicide's got nothing on me. God's grace reigns supreme; look at the totality of Christ's victory over sin and death, and be at peace. Hallelujah!

John146 · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

When a believer separates oneself from the word of God and all other spiritual things, they are subject to the voices of the enemy. The enemy has come to destroy. Not one time in Scripture has Satan murdered anyone, yet he finds man that will carry out his lusts for him, even oneself.

dcontroversal · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

John146 said:

Ummm, God told Satan that he could do anything he wanted concerning Job except take his life...the indication is that he has the power to take a life if not kept in check by God.......I agree with the bolded, but also believe that

a. Not everything has been written
b. The indication is there
c. Based upon God's reply to Satan concerning Job it is possible that Satan has killed people

If Satan or a demon possesses someone and they kill themselves...is it them or the possessing entity that drove them to kill themselves?

wwjd_kilden · Apr 9, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Are you suggesting that suicide automatically sends you to hell if there isn't a once-saved-always-saved?
What if you stub your toe and say **** and then die? Still a sin.

PS: I don't believe in OSAS, but I am tired of people suggesting that suicide equals hell "because you can't repent"
...as if we always and immediately repent of all other sins we commit

What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

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