What's the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
J

jaybird88

Guest
#141
#141
Ahwatukee said:
Yes, Jesus did follow the law of His Father and kept it perfectly and that on our behalf, satisfying God's requirements for the laws fulfillment. Jesus did not come to fulfill the law in order to keep in going so that we could continue to fail at it. Jesus fulfilled the law and we still fail at it. But for those who have faith in Christ, they are no longer under the curse of the law, for Christ satisfied it where we were unable to. Sin gets its power from the law and provides Satan and the powers of darkness with ammunition against us, so why would anyone one want to put themselves back under the law? *scratches head in confusion*
Click to expand...
so when Jesus says follow me, be like Him, what that means is do not be like Him when it comes to obeying the law of His Father?

Satan uses the law against us? obeying the law of not to murder is actually Satan making me not murder? should i go out and start killing people to defeat the powers of Satan?

since you brought Satan into it, here is an interesting fact. within the satanic and luceferian occult beliefs they have a saying Fais ce que tu voudras - do what you will. its a deliberate mocking of Christianity because they believe Christians follow the laws of the Lord Most High and they believe Satan has liberated them from such laws.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#142
Jul 3, 2015
56,601
26,553
113
#142
Ariel82 said:
Sorry not feeling well, something I ate is messing with my stomach, prayers appreciated.
Click to expand...
Lord, please help our beloved sister Ariel feel much better very soon, thank You
Lord for hearing our prayer and for Your great unending love for us, amen.
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#143
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
63
#143
jaybird88 said:
so when Jesus says follow me, be like Him, what that means is do not be like Him when it comes to obeying the law of His Father?
Click to expand...
we are to follow HIM, not be constantly referring to laws. He obeyed the VOICE of his Father.

Satan uses the law against us? obeying the law of not to murder is actually Satan making me not murder? should i go out and start killing people to defeat the powers of Satan?
Click to expand...
I do not avoid murder because the law says so. I do it in love. The law has lost its hold on me.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#145
#145
valiant said:
the Old Covenant did offer forgiveness of sins (Numbers 15.22-31)


.

The blood of the new covenant was poured out for forgiveness of sins. Partaking of the bread and wine was our constant reminder of it.



Christ's redeeming work at the cross and resurrection.
Click to expand...
Was asking the OP....but read numbers 15 and it says there is only forgiveness of sins done ignorantly...sin done knowly was stoned to death, like the man gathering stocks on the Sabbath.

Not sure where you were going, are you sure you cited the right verses?
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#146
#146
Magenta said:
Lord, please help our beloved sister Ariel feel much better very soon, thank You
Lord for hearing our prayer and for Your great unending love for us, amen.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your prayers, still recovering but God enabled me to drive the last 2 hours home with the kiddos...not fun being sick and traveling alone with 3 kids under the age of 11.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#147
#147
jaybird88 said:
so when Jesus says follow me, be like Him, what that means is do not be like Him when it comes to obeying the law of His Father?

Satan uses the law against us? obeying the law of not to murder is actually Satan making me not murder? should i go out and start killing people to defeat the powers of Satan?

since you brought Satan into it, here is an interesting fact. within the satanic and luceferian occult beliefs they have a saying Fais ce que tu voudras - do what you will. its a deliberate mocking of Christianity because they believe Christians follow the laws of the Lord Most High and they believe Satan has liberated them from such laws.
Click to expand...
We don't do what WE will but what God wills for our lives.

I seek to follow God not a set of dos and donts....but I prefer to avoid "grace versus law" debates because it seems pointless when neither side really listens to the other.

What are your thoughts on communion and Passover?

I know you and the grace camp have this urgent need to debate the importance of law, but just wondering what you believed on a different topic.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
NarrowRoadDisciple

NarrowRoadDisciple

Senior Member
#148
Jan 15, 2011
736
28
28
#148
There is an old saying that I think is applicable.

The Old Covenant is the New Covenant concealed
The New Covenant is the Old Covenant revealed

One important dynamic for the NT Church is to understand the law spiritually. We understand that what is born in the natural is reborn in the spiritual. The Mosaic Law and Prophets were quoted many times by Jesus, the 12, and Paul. Does this mean we have to follow the law by the letter?

The New Covenant contains everything the Old Covenant told us about. Even in the Tanakh, they spoke of the mystery that would be the Gentiles being grafted in. Did Jesus come to abolish the Law? No. He came to fulfill it. The Old Covenant is present in the spiritual form which is the New Covenant in Christ Jesus, our Testador of this new Covenant in His blood. For the born again, blood bought church, we now understand the spiritual application of Old Covenant.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#149
#149
Pouring new wine into old wine skins may seem like a good and practical thing to do, but the result will never be anything other than to make one big mess out of everything.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#150
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#150
The new covenant is the spiritual reality of the old covenant.

One is the completion of the other. The law defined one version of walking blamelessly before
the Lord. The failure of those who say the law is just a way of defining failure, is they missed
the real point. You cannot walk as the Lord desires without communion with Him, empowered
by love and purity in your heart. The law is just death when it is external to you as a goal, but
life when it is a measure of Christs work in our hearts.

But unfortunately some believers find the sermon on the mount condemns them, and every other
part of the law. It is because they a literally under law and not grace. If they were under grace
there would be no condemnation in their hearts.

To justify their own guilt all they can do is condemn everyone as sinners including themselves,
so that Jesus is their righteousness and failure is their inheritence, which is simply a denial of
the power of the Holy Spirit, love and cross. But their unbelief and experience tell them defeat
is the reality, just like the pharisees who sold out to hypocracy and sin and failed to deal with
their hearts and emotions.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#151
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#151
Demi777 said:
That is false. Most sins were forgiven by blood sacrefices, which is why Jesus died the Lamb of God.
Click to expand...
Leviticus 17:11 [FONT=&quot]For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.[/FONT]
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#152
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#152
PeterJens said:
The new covenant is the spiritual reality of the old covenant.

One is the completion of the other. The law defined one version of walking blamelessly before
the Lord. The failure of those who say the law is just a way of defining failure, is they missed
the real point. You cannot walk as the Lord desires without communion with Him, empowered
by love and purity in your heart. The law is just death when it is external to you as a goal, but
life when it is a measure of Christs work in our hearts.

But unfortunately some believers find the sermon on the mount condemns them, and every other
part of the law. It is because they a literally under law and not grace. If they were under grace
there would be no condemnation in their hearts.

To justify their own guilt all they can do is condemn everyone as sinners including themselves,
so that Jesus is their righteousness and failure is their inheritence, which is simply a denial of
the power of the Holy Spirit, love and cross. But their unbelief and experience tell them defeat
is the reality, just like the pharisees who sold out to hypocracy and sin and failed to deal with
their hearts and emotions.
Click to expand...
1 Corinthians 12:9-10
[FONT=&quot]9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Its not about justifying guilt peterjens. Its about admitting weakness.

Why pretend to be strong when you aren't? Why not just rely on the One who is Strong?


Jesus loves me this I know
For the bible tells me so
Little ones to Him belong
They are weak but He is Strong


Did they sing this one in your sunday school? Its a really good one and there are more verses...[/FONT]
 
disciplemike

disciplemike

Banned
#153
Jul 1, 2016
2,639
22
0
#153
[video=youtube;6ms2IEIqaRA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ms2IEIqaRA[/video]
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#154
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#154
Going back to the Law for living is committing spiritual adultery on our Lord Jesus. Romans 7:1-6. We have died to the law so that we would be joined to Another - our Lord Jesus.

It is anti-Christ behavior to go back to the Law for living although it has the "appearance" of being good. We live now by His life in us.

"For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God." Col. 3:3

These are the New Covenant truths that the real Christian lives by. The Old Covenant was a shadow of the real which is to come - and it is Jesus Christ Himself living in us in our inner man created in righteousness and holiness.

1) We live by the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus

2) The law of love

3) The law of faith ( The Law is NOT of faith ) ( The just shall live by faith )

4) The law of liberty in Christ Jesus

5) The law of Christ - Himself - we don't need to "obey" Lev 18:23 to not have sex with animals - the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus will stop that from happening.

There are modern day Judaizers that are trying to get Christians to go back under the Law and it is anti-Christ behavior and Paul says that you become severed from Christ and His grace when you go back to the law for living.

Paul had very harsh words for these Judaizers that came in after the gospel of the grace of Christ was preached to pervert the gospel.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#155
#155
jaybird88 said:
so when Jesus says follow me, be like Him, what that means is do not be like Him when it comes to obeying the law of His Father?

Satan uses the law against us? obeying the law of not to murder is actually Satan making me not murder? should i go out and start killing people to defeat the powers of Satan?

since you brought Satan into it, here is an interesting fact. within the satanic and luceferian occult beliefs they have a saying Fais ce que tu voudras - do what you will. its a deliberate mocking of Christianity because they believe Christians follow the laws of the Lord Most High and they believe Satan has liberated them from such laws.
Click to expand...
So now we must throw out the truth because some Satanists believe Satan has liberated them??

Christians have been freed from one thing, the Law, to another, Christ, and the new Way of the Spirit. If you miss that second part you will never understand how we can be free of the Law.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#157
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#157
Hebrews 7:11-16
[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.


The old covenant was completely replaced by something much better.


Hebrews 7:18-19
 [SUP]18 [/SUP]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#158
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#158
I all for learning how the OT shows the reality of Christ fulfilling all the Law. I love to look at the Hebrew words and see the beauty of the Lord in them. I love to see how Jesus Himself is the fulfillment of the feasts and all the details of the tabernacle..etc. But Christ Himself is the very substance of it all.

The Law is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The Lord wants us to eat of Him now - the tree of Life. Notice it is NOT the tree of the "knowledge" of life but life Himself living in us now.

We live by the law of the spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

Jesus did not come to bring us back to the Law. Everything is the Law as a shadow of the real thing which is Christ Himself now living in us. This is why we are not bound to the Law anymore.

His life in us is all we need to now to live the Christian life.

He came to set us free from the Law by us dying on the cross with Christ and then raising from the dead in our new creation in Christ. The inner man of the heart - created in righteousness and holiness.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#159
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
#159
The old covenant was disannulled for the weakness and unproftableness of it.

The old covenant made nothing perfect.

The New Covenant brings in a better hope with better promises and a much better High Priest.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#160
#160
Grandpa said:
Hebrews 7:11-16
[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.


The old covenant was completely replaced by something much better.


Hebrews 7:18-19
 [SUP]18 [/SUP]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Click to expand...
That's right. The "new covenant" is not the "old covenant" renewed, reconstituted, refurbished, or reformed. The New Covenant is just that, new, entirely new; the new and Living way in the newness of life with Jesus Christ. You can no more bring over those old covenant precepts and principles into the new covenant than you can retroactively project new covenant precepts and principles back into the old covenant.

It is the failure to understand, accept and maintain that distinction that is the reason for the Judaized Christianity and Christianized Judaism that we see so much of today. Neither of which is Christianity.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.