Where do women stand before God?

[Joidevivre]

I'm standing before God allowing Him to wash my feet today.

 

[cmarieh]

OK I'm really hungry now can you throw some blueberries in on that oatmeal while I watch TV, I promise you I will cut the grass today lol...

Will do, I prefer strawberries, but blueberries taste delicious too. Consider it done. Lol

 

[JackRT]

When we look at the bible, both old and new testaments, we realize that they emerged from an extremely patriarchal society. This society devalued women to the extent that they were not even considered to be persons before the law. Not only were they devalued but they were in many ways considered to be of inferior intellect and of a carnal nature even moreso than the male. Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men in every respect except physical size and strength. Jesus himslf seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends. Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonomously some 60 years after Paul's death. This was more than enough time for patriarchy to once again take charge. In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be the ugliest evil that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today. As a Christian I am convinced that we should make every effort to ensure the full equality of women in every aspect of the life of our churches and indeed in society at large.

 

[atwhatcost]

The weak lead the strong and the strong lead the weak, behind every great man there's a even greater woman.
the strong wrote the bible.

I thought Strong wrote the concordance. lol

 

[atwhatcost]

OK I'm really hungry now can you throw some blueberries in on that oatmeal while I watch TV, I promise you I will cut the grass today lol...

That would be how it works out for me, if I made breakfast. We don't have grass to mow. lol

(I did make blueberry cobbler. I make desserts. Hubby makes dinner. lol)

 

[Utah]

At least, drooling forces us to talk less.

Talking less. Now there's the perfect woman!

 

[JesusLives]

LOL. Oh, would that it were so. LOL

This does not seem to be what Paul is saying. What he says is "If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home." The word for husband here is ἄνδρας - men. This is also sometimes translated as husband as in 1Cr 14:35. Yet, the intent of the word seems to be "her men" i.e the men within her household whether it be a father, brother, or husband but at the same time her submission is to be to all the men in the body within the established context.

What does an unmarried woman do? Stay in the dark?

 

[atwhatcost]

When we look at the bible, both old and new testaments, we realize that they emerged from an extremely patriarchal society. This society devalued women to the extent that they were not even considered to be persons before the law. Not only were they devalued but they were in many ways considered to be of inferior intellect and of a carnal nature even moreso than the male. Today we know that women are the intellectual and spiritual equals of men in every respect except physical size and strength. Jesus himslf seems to gave been largely gender blind in that he numbered women among his disciples and apostles and even close friends. Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonomously some 60 years after Paul's death. This was more than enough time for patriarchy to once again take charge. In my personal opinion patriarchy just might be the ugliest evil that humanity has ever inflicted on itself. It still exerts its malevolent influence in some circles even today. As a Christian I am convinced that we should make every effort to ensure the full equality of women in every aspect of the life of our churches and indeed in society at large.

So not that!

1. God blew away a society right before he gave Moses the law, so I'm not buying God played along with trends of the time.

2. I refuse to believe the Bible is a lie to uphold feminism or modern trends. If the letter said it's from Paul, it's from Paul. That Paul! (The timing was right. I have no idea where you learned what you learned. I learned my beliefs from F.F. Bruce's book, The Books and the Parchments.)

3. Patriarchy is the biggest evil? Sorry. Canada isn't all that different than America. I was raised in a matriarchal society -- the America of the 60's and 70's. The womenz folkz were making the family decisions and the community decisions while the menz folkz were off bringing home the bacon. Women were the ones telling the men what to do or think all the way to the top. Ladybird Johnson, Pat Nixon, and Betty Ford were forces to be reckoned with, and their husbands knew it. The entire country knew it. Since then, the womenz folkz often have to help bring home the bacon too, but, apart from God's people, they still run the family and community most of the time, and let men play along. As for believers, we're loved by our hubbies, so were not sidelined either. Feminism hasn't improved society. It helped destroy it.

As for biggest evil? Really? Really? So murders, muggings, rapes, dictators, bombs, and all that stuff is child's play comparatively? Sorry the biggest evil is the heart of man. (human's not the male gender.)

I don't know where you're getting your info from, but the matriarchal society I learned in sociology class back in college. And your beliefs in the Bible? Well, not much believing in God there.

 

[atwhatcost]

Talking less. Now there's the perfect woman!

You dream big. lol

 

[JesusLives]

Jacob had at least one daughter besides his 12 sons. The family was still wandering around (like Abraham did -- right in the Promised Land, but it wasn't yet theirs to own), stayed outside a town, when a big celebration took place. All of Jacob's kids went to the hoedown and had a good time, except for Sis. Some rich man's son had been eyeballing her since they came to the area, and picked that moment to "meet" her, except he didn't. He raped her.

Sis went running home to Dad. Dad went to talk to Rich Man. Rich Man's son wanted to marry her. Jacob decided Rich Man should pay him some big bucks. Two oldest brothers found out and did what older brothers tend to do at that moment. Went in and killed Rich Man's son and either half or the whole town. Sis got stuck living with Dad in shame for the rest of her life (or the rest of Jacob's life. No idea who died first.)

Where was her say? No where does it say she got a say in this matter, and, later on, when the Law came, that was the law. I'm also assuming since Jacob was following God by this time in his life, (a bit suspect when he was young and in love, but by now, he had matured into God's man), so the whole pay for this thingy was definitely not about "young and in love" all the time.

I'm a married woman. If we had children and my daughter was raped, I absolutely know hubby's mind wouldn't be pulled between, "Gee, should we let our daughter marry the guy, or how much does he owe me now?" I also know a little nudge from me would set the course of which way he'd really go. And he'd really go with "Let me kill that (beepbeepbeepbeep)." And, hoping God would grace us enough not to find out without the rapist in easy reach, eventually, he would calm down enough to talk to our daughter and find out what she wants -- let it go or press charges.

That's the American culture talking. That's not God's law. In God's law, I might have rights to nudge hubby. (God really has graced me enough not to pull hubby toward violence, but the impulse remains in both of us.) But daughter, no matter her age, still is supposed to take her cue from Dad?

And all this because women submit to men, like men submit to God? So, we're submitter's submitters?

Maybe that's what I'm trying to find out. "Submitter's submitter," but I still am not supposed to ask God, "Why in the world did you let that happen to Jacob's little girl?" Are men allowed to ask, or simply supposed to submit too? (American! Took me a while to grasp submitting to hubby. Got to figure out it's going to be harder to grasp the bigger picture of what submit means. lol)

"Not my will but thine be done" is a forever hard thing for me to get.

I get that the sister probably was forced against her will, but as I recall the story the young man that did this really like or thought he loved her and did want to marry her he just did not wait....and if I recall the story he ended up paying with his life as some of the brothers did go and kill him for defiling their sister.

 

[Rosesrock]

I get that the sister probably was forced against her will, but as I recall the story the young man that did this really like or thought he loved her and did want to marry her he just did not wait....and if I recall the story he ended up paying with his life as some of the brothers did go and kill him for defiling their sister.

Yep they did.

 

[Blain]

man vs. women? uhhh lets see if I answer this by saying that women are just as good as men and God loves and respects both equally (which is what I know to be true) then the ones who see men as superior will post all sorts of scripture how women should not teach or should be quite in church how the should be submissive to their husbands ect.

But if I say that the bible obviously shows men being in more authority all the women on here will slap me on the back of the head saying you dunce! lol. How about this? true the bible seems to show message and picture of men being superior and in more authority but what I have noticed about the bible is it often times requires us to see the message hidden within the message and the picture within the picture

 

[oldhermit]

What does an unmarried woman do? Stay in the dark?

I answered that in that post. "the intent of the word seems to be "her men" i.e the men within her household whether it be a father, grandfather, brother, or husband..."

 

[atwhatcost]

I get that the sister probably was forced against her will, but as I recall the story the young man that did this really like or thought he loved her and did want to marry her he just did not wait....and if I recall the story he ended up paying with his life as some of the brothers did go and kill him for defiling their sister.

Hmmm, let's just say I'm a little slow on the uptake.

So, even though her bros did the wrong thing, God had justice served on a warm plate?

 

[Eva1218]

The Bible speaks to humanity meaning us all. In the Old Testament GOD made covenant with man this in no way diminishes women it is GOD's Divine Plan. GOD made it very clear that HE is the Head of the husband, the husband the head of the wife (Ephesians 5:21-25). This is speaking as a covering as well as in to rule over. The husbands men were to Honor this but as time went on the dishonor of GOD and self grew. GOD therefore spoke on the issues at hand (for example as you stated in the case of a man raping a woman etc). All through the Bible it shows the LOVE GOD truly has for HIS creation and how valuable women are. Women bare the seed for one to be birthed into the world. The Bible when it spoke of Adam also mentioned Eve, the Bible also tells of Adam and Eve having sons and daughters Genesis 5:4 The Bible mentions the man and his wife as well as the children but keep in mind GOD makes the covenant with man. This is not to degrade women it is HIS Divine Order and Plan. Women are not to bare the burden of carrying such weight. Many take the covenant GOD made with man lightly with each command came a weighty price. We as women should thank GOD we are not to bare such weight but what we are to do is be a helpmeet for our husbands. This takes some of the weight off of them for them to be able to do what GOD has Called them to do. Now keep in mind that there are women mentioned who carried out some weighty tasks such as Deborah, Ruth and even Jezebel. So the Bible in no way shape or form diminishes us it is showing forth GOD's Order and Plan thus even the men today are to follow.

In the NT Mary, Mary Magalene, Elizabeth show great courage and in no way are they portrayed as less than. In fact the Bible teaches us that when JESUS rose with Resurrection Power it was a woman Mary who HE first told to tell that HE is Risen (John 20:18).

Blessings!!!!!!!

 

[atwhatcost]

man vs. women? uhhh lets see if I answer this by saying that women are just as good as men and God loves and respects both equally (which is what I know to be true) then the ones who see men as superior will post all sorts of scripture how women should not teach or should be quite in church how the should be submissive to their husbands ect.

But if I say that the bible obviously shows men being in more authority all the women on here will slap me on the back of the head saying you dunce! lol. How about this? true the bible seems to show message and picture of men being superior and in more authority but what I have noticed about the bible is it often times requires us to see the message hidden within the message and the picture within the picture

And, speaking of me being a little slow on the uptake, it just dawned on me about half an hour ago that men could well be damned if they do and damned if they don't for answering my questions. lol

Not my intent. I'm really trying to figure it out. On the good side, all but one person so far (and this is page three) hasn't brought up which gender is better yet. I'm proud of all my bros and sises for not going there, since that really never was my intent.

Also, we're all about the same in standing with God -- we're all far, far FAR inferior to him.

 

[atwhatcost]

The Bible speaks to humanity meaning us all. In the Old Testament GOD made covenant with man this in no way diminishes women it is GOD's Divine Plan. GOD made it very clear that HE is the Head of the husband, the husband the head of the wife (Ephesians 5:21-25). This is speaking as a covering as well as in to rule over. The husbands men were to Honor this but as time went on the dishonor of GOD and self grew. GOD therefore spoke on the issues at hand (for example as you stated in the case of a man raping a woman etc). All through the Bible it shows the LOVE GOD truly has for HIS creation and how valuable women are. Women bare the seed for one to be birthed into the world. The Bible when it spoke of Adam also mentioned Eve, the Bible also tells of Adam and Eve having sons and daughters Genesis 5:4 The Bible mentions the man and his wife as well as the children but keep in mind GOD makes the covenant with man. This is not to degrade women it is HIS Divine Order and Plan. Women are not to bare the burden of carrying such weight. Many take the covenant GOD made with man lightly with each command came a weighty price. We as women should thank GOD we are not to bare such weight but what we are to do is be a helpmeet for our husbands. This takes some of the weight off of them for them to be able to do what GOD has Called them to do. Now keep in mind that there are women mentioned who carried out some weighty tasks such as Deborah, Ruth and even Jezebel. So the Bible in no way shape or form diminishes us it is showing forth GOD's Order and Plan thus even the men today are to follow.

In the NT Mary, Mary Magalene, Elizabeth show great courage and in no way are they portrayed as less than. In fact the Bible teaches us that when JESUS rose with Resurrection Power it was a woman Mary who HE first told to tell that HE is Risen (John 20:18).

Blessings!!!!!!!

It looks funny to see huffy Tweety Bird write those things, but once I get past Huffy Tweety, I think you finally helped me see what I'm trying to see. It does make more sense that the men would deal with a rape, because, if I were asked how to deal with it, my quietly little answer would look the same as what the daughter's brothers did do, "Kill them all and let God sort it out." Yeah, probably not wise to not cover me nor let me too loose.

 

[atwhatcost]

I answered that in that post. "the intent of the word seems to be "her men" i.e the men within her household whether it be a father, grandfather, brother, or husband..."

I suspect that I missed that one because we no longer keep extended families near us.

 

[p_rehbein]

Where do women stand before God?

I dunno... I think they stand in the kitchen.

Here, you left this out...........

 

[Stephen63]

Here's where it began:
Genesis 3:16 (KJV) Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Because of the first sin, the woman was to submit to her husband. This doesn't mean all men, to make them second class citizens. Before the 1st sin, there was full equality.
Genesis 2:23-24 (KJV) [SUP]23 [/SUP]And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Here's where we're at now:
Romans 8:1-2 (KJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP]There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. [HR][/HR]Romans 6:7 (KJV) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[HR][/HR]Romans 6:18 (KJV) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
[HR][/HR]Romans 6:22 (KJV) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
[HR][/HR]Galatians 3:28 (KJV) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[HR][/HR]Galatians 5:1 (KJV) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
[HR][/HR]Colossians 3:10-11 (KJV) [SUP]10 [/SUP]And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: [SUP]11 [/SUP]Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Freedom from what? Sin! The power of sin, the bondage of sin, and, oh yes, freedom from the curse of sin! The only part of us that's still cursed is our flesh. It's corrupt, it's carnal. But the new man, the inner man is free!

We are now this:
Romans 8:14 (KJV) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[HR][/HR]Romans 8:19 (KJV) For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
[HR][/HR]Philippians 2:15 (KJV) That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
[HR][/HR]1 John 3:1 (KJV) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
[HR][/HR]1 John 3:2 (KJV) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall (all) be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

It's unanimous..... we're the sons of God..... equal, with exception that the wife submit to her husband.