Where does the idea of the immaculate conception come from?

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,015
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#41
Well what about how Jesus says to the disciple he loved; behold thy mother?
What about it? Jesus is giving Mary over into the care of John, as He, Jesus, is dying on the cross. Women were particularly vulnerable in that patriarchal society where they had essentially no rights of their own, unattached to men of their family. Is that really so difficult to understand? How does that in your mind become enlarged to Mary magically becoming the mother of humanity or the second Eve or the queen of heaven or being sinless or immortal or any of the other things RCC promote about her that you find so amenable to your way of thinking?

Sounds like the second Eve to me.

I haven't personally nor seen on that Catholic website them equating Mary or for that matter Eve to Christ. I see you equating Mary to Christ based on your beliefs of their beliefs, but I guess that's okay too. Neither is idolatry because living people aren't idols.

Philippians 2:5-6

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Living people aren't idols? Seriously. You don't seem to know what you are talking about at all.

 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#42
Just for Catholics - http://www.justforcatholics.org/immaculate.htm

THE DOGMA OF THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION

The modern Catholic Church teaches dogmatically that Mary was conceived without sin. The Catechism (paragraph 491) states:

Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, 'full of grace' through God (Luke 1:28) was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854: The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.

History

How was the idea of Mary's immaculate conception introduced in the catholic church? The doctrine was not a tradition in the early centuries of the church. Some Church Fathers taught that Mary led a sinless life, but they did not teach that she was conceived without original sin. On the contrary the Fathers opposed the heresy of Pelagius who insisted that Adam's sin was not imputed to the human race. For instance, Augustine writes: "He [Christ], therefore, alone having become man, but still continuing to be God, never had any sin, nor did he assume a flesh of sin, though born of a maternal flesh of sin" (De Peccatorum Meritis, Bk II, Ch 38). Christ alone never had any sin.

A feast of Mary's conception was celebrated in the Eastern church as early as the seventh century (and later in the West), but that does not imply a belief in "immaculate" conception. In fact, to this day the Orthodox Church does not accept the doctrine.
In the 13th-century, John Duns Scotus promoted the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. The Franciscan monks continued to preach and defend the doctrine, but it was opposed in the 12th-century by St. Bernard of Clairvaux, by St. Thomas Aquinas in the 13th-century and subsequently by the Dominican friars.

In the 15th-century the Franciscan Pope Sixtus IV established a feast of the Immaculate Conception to be celebrated on December 8.

Finally in 1854 Pope Pius IX issued a solemn decree, Ineffabilis Deus, declaring the Immaculate Conception an essential dogma for all the church.

Scripture

Catholic scholars acknowledge that this doctrine is not explicitly revealed in Scripture. The Catholic Encyclopaedia admits, "No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture."

The Catechism refers to Luke 1:28 for scriptural support. But "full of grace" could not possibly mean conceived without sin, for the very same word is used in Ephesians 1:6 referring to ALL believers. Certainly no-one would argue that all Christians are conceived without sin!

Contrary to the Roman Catholic teaching, the Scripture plainly teaches that all Adam's descendents share his sinful nature: "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12). Therefore all Adam's children need to be saved. Mary herself, a natural descendant of Adam, calls God "my savior" (Luke 1:47). Evidently she did not know the Roman Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception!

Of Christ alone, the eternal Son who was supernaturally conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of the virgin woman, it is ever expressly stated that He was "without sin" (Hebrews 4:15). Christ alone is immaculate from conception; therefore He alone is qualified to die in the place of sinners. Christ, who knew no sin, "bore our sins in His own body on the tree" (1 Peter 2:24).

In Ineffabilis Deus, Pope Pius IX also appealed to Genesis 3:15 as "unmistakable evidence that she has crushed the poisonous head of the serpent." He also states that with and through Christ, Mary was "eternally at enmity with the evil serpent, and most completely triumphed over him, and thus crushed his head with her immaculate foot."

But the Bible does not say that Mary crushed the serpent's head. Speaking to the serpent, the Lord says:
And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.
The woman's Seed, the Messiah, not the woman, bruised the serpent's head.

The paintings of the Immaculate crushing the serpent's head were inspired from a incorrect translation of Genesis 3:15 based on the Latin Vulgate: "I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel" (Douay-Rheims Bible). Modern Catholic Bibles, such as the New American Bible, correct the mistake: "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel."

Yet Mary is still portrayed crushing Satan's head. Let us not be misled by false images and false doctrine. Nobody but Jesus fulfilled the great prophecy and overcame our deceptive enemy. "For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil" (1 John 3:8). Through His death, Jesus destroyed "him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release[ed] those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage" (Hebrews 2:14,15). Let us therefore trust in Him alone to give us victory over Satan, sin and death.

Shipwreck in the Faith

The implications of the Catholic dogma are very serious. Pope Pius IX solemnly warned: "Hence, if anyone shall dare -- which God forbid! -- to think otherwise than as has been defined by us, let him know and understand that he is condemned by his own judgment; that he has suffered shipwreck in the faith; that he has separated from the unity of the Church; and that, furthermore, by his own action he incurs the penalties established by law if he should express in words or writing or by any other outward means the errors he thinks in his heart" (Ineffabilis Deus).

The Roman Catholic magisterium would have us believe a novel doctrine (that is neither taught in the Scriptures nor in the writings of the Church Fathers) as an essential article of the Christian faith. But we are convinced that the Scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation through faith in Christ Jesus (2 Timothy 3:15). We don't need any extra-biblical doctrines for our salvation. In fact, it is the Roman Church that has suffered "shipwreck in the faith" by embracing a doctrine that is contrary to the Bible; and "separated from the unity of the Church" which for centuries knew nothing of the theological inventions of Rome.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,426
3,479
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#43
So, I grew up in a family that was part Catholic part Protestant. I've heard about the theory of the Immaculate Conception for quite a while. The thing is, I don't see any Biblical evidence for it. Where does the theory come from?
It was a theory of men.. Not the inspired message of God..

To put it simply someone thought that if Jesus is perfect and sinless then to be that way He must have developed in the womb of a sinless perfect mother ... Of course the blasphemy and sheer stupidity of this doctrine is clear to most Christians.. If Jesus needed a sinless mother then that mother likewise would have needed a sinless and perfect mom and dad and then it goes on and on and on way back to Adam and Eve ... And as we know they as well as all human beings because faulty sinners.. So the immaculate conception is a denial of the scriptures and blasphemous because it states that a human being Mary a sinner was sinless..

The Bible gave us forewarning for those traditions of men that only get more and more blasphemous

2 Timothy 3:KJV
13 "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. {14} But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; {15} And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."
 
Last edited:
Mar 28, 2016
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#44
Where does the idea of the immaculate conception come from?


It comes from those who seek after an outward sign(walking by sight) before they will believe so that then they can glory in their own flesh , hoping it could profit for something. This is even though Christ said of His own flesh , it profits for nothing.


Christ said it’s an evil generation (natural man) that does seek after the things seen rather than the things of faith, the unseen, revealed by His word.


And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet. Luk 11:27
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#45
So, I grew up in a family that was part Catholic part Protestant. I've heard about the theory of the Immaculate Conception for quite a while. The thing is, I don't see any Biblical evidence for it. Where does the theory come from?
Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and his name shall be called Emmanuel"
(which means, God with us). Matt 1:23 RSV
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#46
This is a fiendish doctrine that elevates Mary to the status of demigod. Mary is not a co-mediator with Christ. Mary was simply a vessel that God chose to use in the incarnation of our Savior Redeemer.

Mary had additional children so there is no reason to create a doctrine wherein she remained sinless. If she had remained sinless she could not have died a natural death.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Feb 1, 2017
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#47
What about it? Jesus is giving Mary over into the care of John, as He, Jesus, is dying on the cross. Women were particularly vulnerable in that patriarchal society where they had essentially no rights of their own, unattached to men of their family. Is that really so difficult to understand? How does that in your mind become enlarged to Mary magically becoming the mother of humanity or the second Eve or the queen of heaven or being sinless or immortal or any of the other things RCC promote about her that you find so amenable to your way of thinking?

Living people aren't idols? Seriously. You don't seem to know what you are talking about at all.

Well if all the people whom are truly alive because of Jesus, as the beloved disciples of Christ, and Christ says to the beloved disciple; "Behold your mother", then it seems to stand to reason Mary is indeed mother of all living, a second Eve, a mother of the followers of Jesus.

Also indeed living people are not idols. The Bible, and specifically God says through his prophets that the idols have no breath of life in them.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#48
This is a fiendish doctrine that elevates Mary to the status of demigod. Mary is not a co-mediator with Christ. Mary was simply a vessel that God chose to use in the incarnation of our Savior Redeemer.

Mary had additional children so there is no reason to create a doctrine wherein she remained sinless. If she had remained sinless she could not have died a natural death.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
All I know is that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. Certainly she wasn't without sin.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#49
All I know is that Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. Certainly she wasn't without sin.
True God never set forth that requirement. Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit in the conception of Jesus. Sin is passed from generation to generation through the father not through the mother. Hence Jesus had no earthly father but His Father was in heaven.

A good and faithful servant was Mary which is all God asks of anyone.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
R

ROSSELLA

Guest
#50
Thank all of you for your replies!
 

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
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#51
Yeah, I always thought that "immaculate conception" referred to the birth of Jesus and the fact that Mary had to be a virgin.

Well I guess in the Gospels. Mary was a virgin and conceived Jesus, immaculate conception.

I'm not a Catholic though, but that's what I always thought it meant.
 

santuzza

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2013
1,609
38
48
#52
So, I grew up in a family that was part Catholic part Protestant. I've heard about the theory of the Immaculate Conception for quite a while. The thing is, I don't see any Biblical evidence for it. Where does the theory come from?
It is a lie from the pit of hell. There IS no biblical evidence because it is untrue.
 
Feb 1, 2017
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#53
Yeah, I always thought that "immaculate conception" referred to the birth of Jesus and the fact that Mary had to be a virgin.
Lol well guess we both learned something new at least even if we were both originally wrong lol. Though semantically I still think it makes more sense to call the conception of Jesus the real immaculate conception still imo lol.