where is heaven,the place where the tree of life is and the God of all creation lives
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Luke 17:20
The Coming of the Kingdom
20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
Ephesians 2:6
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
IMO, it is spiritual with some physical aspects [the spiritual effects the physical], later to be spiritual and physical but timeless.
2 Peter 3
The Day of the Lord
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.[c]11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. (also see Revelation 21:1)
The Coming of the Kingdom
20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”
Ephesians 2:6
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
IMO, it is spiritual with some physical aspects [the spiritual effects the physical], later to be spiritual and physical but timeless.
2 Peter 3
The Day of the Lord
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.[c]11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. (also see Revelation 21:1)
Heaven is described in the Bible as being a very physical and spiritual place that isn't on earth. Since God used invisible things to effect creation, heaven can easily elude the visual spectrum unless God allows a human to see it by spiritually blessed eyes.
It was the home of Jesus before he left there a short time to redeem men, the Father God having remained there, communicating with Jesus, now the Holy Spirit come in their stead.
It's a poor use of the imagination to make a metaphysical/metaphorical concept out of heaven, and obviously poor exegetical rendering of scriptures. If the Bible was found to have presented heaven like that, then everything else, Jesus and the blood included, would have to be taken metaphorically. If metaphorical, then all that is compared to....what? Buddhism?
A metaphor is a sometimes complicated figure of speech that describes a concept or object to be so similar to something else as to actually appear to be the same (due to similarities) as as an often totally unrelated concept/object as "being" the same. The object of a metaphor is to dwell on the similarities of the things being compared as though they are one and the same, with the understanding they are not the same things.
Heaven is not shown in scriptures as a metaphor since it isn't related to similar things. Other religions attempt that. It is so well separated that there is nothing to compare it to except with negative extra-biblical rhetoric comparing heaven to hell.
It was the home of Jesus before he left there a short time to redeem men, the Father God having remained there, communicating with Jesus, now the Holy Spirit come in their stead.
It's a poor use of the imagination to make a metaphysical/metaphorical concept out of heaven, and obviously poor exegetical rendering of scriptures. If the Bible was found to have presented heaven like that, then everything else, Jesus and the blood included, would have to be taken metaphorically. If metaphorical, then all that is compared to....what? Buddhism?
A metaphor is a sometimes complicated figure of speech that describes a concept or object to be so similar to something else as to actually appear to be the same (due to similarities) as as an often totally unrelated concept/object as "being" the same. The object of a metaphor is to dwell on the similarities of the things being compared as though they are one and the same, with the understanding they are not the same things.
Heaven is not shown in scriptures as a metaphor since it isn't related to similar things. Other religions attempt that. It is so well separated that there is nothing to compare it to except with negative extra-biblical rhetoric comparing heaven to hell.
Thank you...yes who is the tree and what is the garden? The bible is a picture book discerned only with spiritual eye sight one had so clearly suggested. Some can study and read and truly miss the simplisty of the text and then feel they have to defend it not truly understanding.God is a mystery and loves the humble.
It is literal, even as the heavenly dimension is literal (i.e., real).
Gen.2 showed us the Garden of Eden is where God's abode is, and that it once was upon this earth with its River flowing out of His Garden to feed four other rivers upon the earth, two of which are still known today (Euphrates and Tigris or Hiddekel).
Isaiah 19 shows God's future Kingdom on earth in three parts, with a highway running through them, Assyria, Israel, and Egypt.
Ezekiel 47 shows us the re-establishing of God's River upon the earth, flowing out from the Millennial sanctuary to feed other waters upon the earth, cleansing them. And the tree of life is shown on either side of the River bearings it many fruits per its months that cannot be consumed. It is a further detail of the waters of life and tree of life mentioned towards the end of the Book of Revelation.
On the "last trump" of 1 Cor.15, the asleep saints from heaven which Jesus brings with Him at His 2nd coming, along with those still alive on earth, will all be changed to the "spiritual body" type. Per Isaiah 25 that includes the unbeliever still on earth also. It is pointing to the heavenly opened and revealed here on earth, both dimensions existing in the same time and space, on earth.
At the very end of Ezekiel 48, the name of the holy city on earth will be, "The LORD is there". So those who have difficulty understanding how the heavenly dimension will be opened up and manifested upon the earth in the same time and space will not understand it using a fleshy mind.
Gen.2 showed us the Garden of Eden is where God's abode is, and that it once was upon this earth with its River flowing out of His Garden to feed four other rivers upon the earth, two of which are still known today (Euphrates and Tigris or Hiddekel).
Isaiah 19 shows God's future Kingdom on earth in three parts, with a highway running through them, Assyria, Israel, and Egypt.
Ezekiel 47 shows us the re-establishing of God's River upon the earth, flowing out from the Millennial sanctuary to feed other waters upon the earth, cleansing them. And the tree of life is shown on either side of the River bearings it many fruits per its months that cannot be consumed. It is a further detail of the waters of life and tree of life mentioned towards the end of the Book of Revelation.
On the "last trump" of 1 Cor.15, the asleep saints from heaven which Jesus brings with Him at His 2nd coming, along with those still alive on earth, will all be changed to the "spiritual body" type. Per Isaiah 25 that includes the unbeliever still on earth also. It is pointing to the heavenly opened and revealed here on earth, both dimensions existing in the same time and space, on earth.
At the very end of Ezekiel 48, the name of the holy city on earth will be, "The LORD is there". So those who have difficulty understanding how the heavenly dimension will be opened up and manifested upon the earth in the same time and space will not understand it using a fleshy mind.
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In Genesis 18 & 19, we are shown how "three men" appeared to Abraham at his tent door, and one of them Abraham called Lord. He prepared man's food for them and they did eat and drink. They were angels, one of them being our Lord Jesus Christ before He was born flesh through woman's womb. The Lord stayed behind talking with Abraham about the coming destruction of Sodom and Gomarrah while the two angels went to Abraham's nephew Lot.
When the two angels appeared to Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah, the sodomites outside Lot's house saw them as two young men, and told Lot to bring them out so they could Biblically 'known' them (i.e, have sex with them). The two angels blinded the sodomites. The two angels also ate food that Lot prepared, and stayed there in the house that night, and then led Lot and his people out of Sodom and Gomorrah.
In 2 Kings 6, the king of Syria sent a great army to the city where Elisha lived and surrounded it. Elisha's servant arose early that morning and saw the great host aligned against them and warned him. Then Elisha told his servant, "Fear not, for they that be with us are more than they that be with them."
Then Elisha prayed to The LORD that his servants eyes would be open, and his servant then saw a great heavenly host, the mountains around them full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. The LORD's host army was simply behind a veil flesh eyes could not see.
All these type of Biblical examples reveal the heavenly dimension is just as real as this earthly one, and even more, that the heavenly reality can... be revealed and exist right here, upon this earth.
When Mary went to the tomb of our Lord Jesus and saw His flesh body missing, two angels appeared to her also inside the tomb. Likewise when Jesus ascended to Heaven per Acts 1, two angels appeared to the Apostles there watching Jesus go up.
The devil's servants here on earth do not want people to understand this. But the Biblical examples of it are plentiful. The devil knows that if you begin to understand the heavenly dimension of reality, then you might be led to actually believe what God's Word reveals as actual Truth, and then through Jesus your spirit will be made free from the trappings of the flesh and the things of this world.
When the two angels appeared to Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah, the sodomites outside Lot's house saw them as two young men, and told Lot to bring them out so they could Biblically 'known' them (i.e, have sex with them). The two angels blinded the sodomites. The two angels also ate food that Lot prepared, and stayed there in the house that night, and then led Lot and his people out of Sodom and Gomorrah.
In 2 Kings 6, the king of Syria sent a great army to the city where Elisha lived and surrounded it. Elisha's servant arose early that morning and saw the great host aligned against them and warned him. Then Elisha told his servant, "Fear not, for they that be with us are more than they that be with them."
Then Elisha prayed to The LORD that his servants eyes would be open, and his servant then saw a great heavenly host, the mountains around them full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. The LORD's host army was simply behind a veil flesh eyes could not see.
All these type of Biblical examples reveal the heavenly dimension is just as real as this earthly one, and even more, that the heavenly reality can... be revealed and exist right here, upon this earth.
When Mary went to the tomb of our Lord Jesus and saw His flesh body missing, two angels appeared to her also inside the tomb. Likewise when Jesus ascended to Heaven per Acts 1, two angels appeared to the Apostles there watching Jesus go up.
The devil's servants here on earth do not want people to understand this. But the Biblical examples of it are plentiful. The devil knows that if you begin to understand the heavenly dimension of reality, then you might be led to actually believe what God's Word reveals as actual Truth, and then through Jesus your spirit will be made free from the trappings of the flesh and the things of this world.
T
Adam walked with God in the garden of Eden. I believe the Tree of Life was a physical tree. There's no need to allegorise such things. Yes, later on, the Tree of Life was symbolic of Jesus, and it's true that the Tree of Life in the garden also points to the Jesus, but the tree in Genesis is a literal tree that brought life.
Yes, and in Ezekiel 47 the tree of life and God's River are shown to be literal things established upon the earth in the future.
This is probably one of the most difficult types of understanding in God's Word that brethren grapple with, i.e., distinguishing the differences between the two different dimensions of reality, the heavenly vs. the earthly, and then also their similarities.
Because God existed eternally PRIOR to His creating the universe and material matter through His Son, then which reality does that show is the more REAL?
We know per John 4 that "God is a Spirit". And since Hebrews 11:3 reveals that the things of this earthly that we see (i.e., material matter) were not created of things made (i.e., that material matter), then it means the earthly dimension was created by and from Spirit, God's Spirit.
Man's science with all its great studies and experiments is still limited to the bounds of this earthly dimension which God created. That includes this earth, the heavenly skies, the planets and stars, the whole seen universe.
So since the material universe was created by the dimension of God's Spirit, it means the world of Spirit is actually the greater reality, and as written in Rev.4:11, He created all things for His pleasure. Per Isaiah 45:18, He created this earth for His children to live upon.
So if Spirit created the earthly dimension, then couldn't God's Spirit live upon His Own creation? Yes, definitely. And that is what our hope is, as also the hope of His creation we await at the manifesting of the sons of God (Rom.8).
This is probably one of the most difficult types of understanding in God's Word that brethren grapple with, i.e., distinguishing the differences between the two different dimensions of reality, the heavenly vs. the earthly, and then also their similarities.
Because God existed eternally PRIOR to His creating the universe and material matter through His Son, then which reality does that show is the more REAL?
We know per John 4 that "God is a Spirit". And since Hebrews 11:3 reveals that the things of this earthly that we see (i.e., material matter) were not created of things made (i.e., that material matter), then it means the earthly dimension was created by and from Spirit, God's Spirit.
Man's science with all its great studies and experiments is still limited to the bounds of this earthly dimension which God created. That includes this earth, the heavenly skies, the planets and stars, the whole seen universe.
So since the material universe was created by the dimension of God's Spirit, it means the world of Spirit is actually the greater reality, and as written in Rev.4:11, He created all things for His pleasure. Per Isaiah 45:18, He created this earth for His children to live upon.
So if Spirit created the earthly dimension, then couldn't God's Spirit live upon His Own creation? Yes, definitely. And that is what our hope is, as also the hope of His creation we await at the manifesting of the sons of God (Rom.8).
Thank you you seem to have a great understanding of the word up until this. The garden/heaven has always been here. Nowhere in scripture was it removed ..yes sealed by His angles,but not removed! David's temple was an exzact physical example aside from the tree and river flowing beneath it. Then we have Jesus from the seed of David who established the kingdom here on earth now in a temple not made by hand. We now have the spiritual kingdom with God who is Spirit who rules on earth through His body. Not sure why so many think He needs to come yet again if He now resides in His people or body can He not accomplish what He has already said He has done?
The reason why our Lord Jesus must come and restore all things is because man has broken the everlasting covenant, and the earth is made a waste and a ruin.
Isa 24
24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.
3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.
4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
7 The new wine mourneth, the vine languisheth, all the merryhearted do sigh.
8 The mirth of tabrets ceaseth, the noise of them that rejoice endeth, the joy of the harp ceaseth.
9 They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.
10 The city of confusion is broken down: every house is shut up, that no man may come in.
11 There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone.
12 In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction.
13 When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is done.
14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the LORD, they shall cry aloud from the sea.
15 Wherefore glorify ye the LORD in the fires, even the name of the LORD God of Israel in the isles of the sea.
16 From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.
17 Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.
KJV
Isa 24
24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.
3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.
4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
7 The new wine mourneth, the vine languisheth, all the merryhearted do sigh.
8 The mirth of tabrets ceaseth, the noise of them that rejoice endeth, the joy of the harp ceaseth.
9 They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.
10 The city of confusion is broken down: every house is shut up, that no man may come in.
11 There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone.
12 In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction.
13 When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is done.
14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the LORD, they shall cry aloud from the sea.
15 Wherefore glorify ye the LORD in the fires, even the name of the LORD God of Israel in the isles of the sea.
16 From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.
17 Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.
KJV
I agree. It was a sin to partake of the first tree. If an allegory or type, then what was referenced to be evil concerning something similar to knowledge of good and evil? There being no apparent logical answer, I'll proceed to the second tree, leaving the first tree a literal tree.
If allegorical of Jesus being the Tree of Life, then why exclude mankind from it via armed angelic guards? Well, the consequence of Adam eating of it would have let him never die physically, while possibly never repenting, being in the same situation as Satan.
Seeing that Jesus commanded we 'eat of his flesh and drink his blood', which saying was rejected by most of his disciples, then if the tree was to provide eternal spiritual life for the eater, then it could not be denied to a seeker. So why stop mankind from finding and partaking of Christ?
Therefore that tree was a literal tree growjng in a specific place in that literal garden where the literal man and woman lived, with literal leaves that would impart immortality irrespective of spiritual condition. The same species of tree will be found lining the banks of the River of God, there called the Tree of Life. I doubt that means Jesus will line the banks of that river.
So now let's re-read this...Gen 3: 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
As for where it was, the Flood changed up the entire riverine system in the region making it impossible now to locate it by the Bible description. Satellite radar imagining shows a confused mess of old river channels demonstrating huge changes in the continent, even showing old rivers under the sand dunes of the deserts. There was no stated expiration date for the angels to release it, and Jesus never declared he was that tree, nor that the Kingdom of Heaven is that garden. Jesus is LIKE the tree of life for all who believe on him as prescribed by scriptures. It's all "more gone" from discovery on earth than the Solomon/Herod Temples at Jerusalem.
If allegorical of Jesus being the Tree of Life, then why exclude mankind from it via armed angelic guards? Well, the consequence of Adam eating of it would have let him never die physically, while possibly never repenting, being in the same situation as Satan.
Seeing that Jesus commanded we 'eat of his flesh and drink his blood', which saying was rejected by most of his disciples, then if the tree was to provide eternal spiritual life for the eater, then it could not be denied to a seeker. So why stop mankind from finding and partaking of Christ?
Therefore that tree was a literal tree growjng in a specific place in that literal garden where the literal man and woman lived, with literal leaves that would impart immortality irrespective of spiritual condition. The same species of tree will be found lining the banks of the River of God, there called the Tree of Life. I doubt that means Jesus will line the banks of that river.
So now let's re-read this...Gen 3: 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
As for where it was, the Flood changed up the entire riverine system in the region making it impossible now to locate it by the Bible description. Satellite radar imagining shows a confused mess of old river channels demonstrating huge changes in the continent, even showing old rivers under the sand dunes of the deserts. There was no stated expiration date for the angels to release it, and Jesus never declared he was that tree, nor that the Kingdom of Heaven is that garden. Jesus is LIKE the tree of life for all who believe on him as prescribed by scriptures. It's all "more gone" from discovery on earth than the Solomon/Herod Temples at Jerusalem.