where is heaven,the place where the tree of life is and the God of all creation lives

fredoheaven · Jan 19, 2016

Ezekekiel 31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
Ezekiel 31:18 To whom art thou thus like in glory and in greatness among the trees of Eden? yet shalt thou be brought down with the trees of Eden unto the nether parts of the earth: thou shalt lie in the midst of the uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword. This is Pharaoh and all his multitude, saith the Lord GOD.

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

This might fall to the Paradise where the rich man saw and wanted.

God bless

un2him · Jan 19, 2016

Tintin said:

Tintin thank you for following this thread could you please have some self-control here and keep your personal attacks out of this thread. Thank you

un2him · Jan 19, 2016

DP said:

My last paragraph I was speaking in relation to what Apostle Paul taught in Romans 8 about the future glory that shall be revealed in us. Paul showed that future glory cannot be compared to the sufferings of today's world, and by that he specifically showed how even God's creation which He placed in a state of bondage to vanity, also seeks that future time of glory.

Rom 8:18-25
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Even though believers in Christ Jesus are already today called "sons of God" per Rom.8 and 1 John 3, that Scripture shows the final manifestation of that state is still yet to occur in the world to come:

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
KJV

Our future appearing per that is about the resurrection body, i.e., the "spiritual body" type which Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15 and 2 Corinthians 5. It is not the same type of body we have today in this present world, though it has the appearance of flesh, and can live upon this earth. That's why John is saying there, that today it doesn't appear what we shall be, but at Jesus' second coming we are going to be changed. Paul taught this change also in 1 Corinthians 15 on the "last trump". The Isaiah 25 reference to it shows that change to the resurrection body type will occur for all nations and peoples on the earth, not just those in Christ Jesus. The "vail" removed per Isaiah 25 is about the veil over our present material dimension that hides the heavenly dimension being removed.

Rom.8:19-25
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who hath subjected the same in hope,

That word "creature" in the Greek is the same word for "creation" mentioned later. It's about God's whole creation. Just as we, God's children, have been subjected to vanity in this present world through flesh, which gets sick, dies, feels pain, basically showing a state of imperfection, God subjected His creation also in that vanity and bondage of imperfection, as His creation also seeks a release from today's state of vanity. This subject is very... profound and involves a mystery, which is why many brethren struggle with this section of Romans 8 by Apostle Paul.

Think about the creation for a moment. Is it really in a state today how God intended? Because Paul said God subjected His creation to vanity in hope (i.e., a hope of release from it), that shows the creation today is not in a state how God intends. He has a better plan for His creation in the future, in the time of the manifesting of the sons of God, i.e., in a perfect body that won't die, won't get sick, doesn't feel hot or cold nor pain, and is an everlasting eternal state living on this earth with Him.

Truly today, God's creation is still very, very beautiful in many parts of the earth. Even wonders like the Grand Canyon we deem as beautiful, and the desert in bloom is very beautiful, though both are pretty much a barren wasteland and mostly uninhabitable to man. That will change, as even in Isaiah 35 we are shown how the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose, even with the glory of Lebanon given to it (i.e, Lebanon was famous for its glorious cedar trees). This also is why God showed us in Isaiah 11 that the cow and the bear will feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like an ox. Even the little child will place its hand on the hole of the asp (snake) and not be harmed. Do we see those kind of things happening in today's world? No. Yet with these type of future events scattered throughout the OT prophets, He has shown some of how the world to come will be about His perfect creation. Likewise it will be with the manifesting of the sons of God.

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

For this reason, of God having placed His creation in a state of bondage for this present world, it groans and travails in pain, and in hope for the release to the perfect state in the world to come, waiting along with us for the redemption of our body. Just what body of ours is that? Our spiritual body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
KJV

Those in Christ Jesus have this hope, even in their soul, but if we saw it manifest already then that is no longer a hope for it, because what we already can see manifested why would a man still be in hope for it? But to have hope for what has not yet manifested, then in patience we wait for it to come.

Thank you for the time you've put into this thread. I better understand your belief in this and why. All I might add to this is man has been waiting for over 2,000 years for God to do just what you are sugesting based upon your study and the teaching you've been under. What if it is God who waits for man to come to the true uderstanding of what He has aready done and having achieved that... join Him in bringing about the fillment of heaven here on earth He certianly has givin us all of Him to do this. The only thing I can see that has stopped us is the body being truly fit together each part working together as one with the head being Christ.

resurrection33 · Jan 19, 2016

un2him said:

I believe heaven is what your life turns into when you repent of your sin:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

When we die, we pass on to the resurrection.

DP · Jan 19, 2016

un2him said:

Look around you. Do you really... think the majority of peoples on this earth even have a clue of what God in His Word has already said He will do? It is not us that will bring the end of this world, He will, and without us doing it, for we do not have that kind of power nor authority. But will His servants here on earth help Him in that spiritually? Yes. See Rev.11 about God's two witnesses and the two candlesticks. Those who will keep the Faith will be fewer and fewer as we get closer to the end.

un2him · Jan 19, 2016

DP said:

How many did Gideon need? You know your scripture John 4,5 Jesus tells the deciples He must finish His Father's work. John 14 speaks of who must do as He did and greater. Is it really He that will He has us to do the handy work now. And to a degree I do do see that taking place and others trained. God can raise dead bones is there anything He cannot do? No

Tintin · Jan 19, 2016

un2him said:

It's not a personal attack, it's an observation. Would you rather I swept non-biblical lines of thinking under the carpet?

DP · Jan 20, 2016

un2him said:

The reason I presented Apostle Paul's example from Romans 8 was so you might understand just to what level of changes God is going to do at the end of this world, and with the world to come. And that in order to show you that we... have NO power to do those things. Only GOD can and will do them. So you're really trying to compare apples to oranges here.

un2him · Jan 20, 2016

Tintin said:

No I'd rather you just do as I asked thank you

un2him · Jan 20, 2016

DP said:

I do understand some of your belief but clearly Romans 8 was to encourage the new believers in the workings of the Holy Spirit the new regerated life no longer pretaining to the physical but rather the spirit and adoption as children of God. Yes a very real but unseen change in the physical. The Lord does the work the hope of glory in you we are his work men Jesus came as the example of the man transformed regenerated impowered to do the work here on earth by God's Spirit in you to live to move and have His being in His new temple you. Do you not know you are the temple of the living God. It is not some future pie inthe sky dream.

DP · Jan 20, 2016

un2him said:

I still... don't think you've realized what Paul was teaching in that section of Rom.8.

Paul was revealing more about God's creation than just the manifesting of His children in the world to come. It's about the physical creation especially, i.e, this earth, and he's comparing two different world ages of the earth, this imperfect one we live in today, and the perfect one yet to come which will be different. So it most definitely is a matter pertaining to the physical. And the changes will be physical and very much 'seen'.

I picked that Rom.8 Scripture specifically because it shows we cannot simply apply ideas of spiritualism to it, because it involves the literal physical creation upon the earth. God's River that is shown to manifest on earth in the future is not a spiritual metaphor, it will be a real physical manifestation upon the earth, flowing in contact with other waters upon the earth which will be healed because of it (Ezek.47). Likewise with the Ezekiel description of the tree of life, it will be a literal manifesting upon the earth, as Ezekiel 47 even reveals its specific location in the future.

In the NT, we're not given as much detail about those things like the OT prophets show, and why should the NT Books go into that detail again when it was already written by God through His OT prophets. I cannot help that some men have failed to study those things from the OT prophets to learn those literal details, which is why some men instead have created a spiritualistic view of God's future eternity, seeing things only by the NT descriptions which lack those details. That's what has happened though with some men relying totally on the NT writings while disregarding the OT writings where both weave together to make a perfect whole. What true Christian would want to settle for just half of the full Loaf of Bread of God's Word anyway, for there are many things written in the OT prophets about the future that won't come to pass until after our Lord Jesus' second coming?

un2him · Jan 20, 2016

Thank you for your reply I am better understanding where your at. You see things based upon your teachings and I can relate was under a very literal bible teacher myself for years. It was the Holy Spirit who took me from a place where I thought I knew all about God and His word to a place where my love grew and what I thought I knew was replaced by how little I really know. I do know this until the Spirit teaches you in spirit and truth all the memorizing learning and study will be in vain. God is Spirit and uses physical concepts to teach us spiritual lessions always has always will.

Bessings on your journey

DP · Jan 20, 2016

un2him said:

Sorry, but what you're saying is simply a load of malarkey.

My Teacher on the above is Apostle Paul and God through The Holy Spirit. Trying to spiritualize those things about the literal changes in God's creation which Paul plainly wrote about is the sign of charlatans trying to change God's Word to suit their own agenda.

I will not be blessing your journey in the state you are in, but only hope you begin to listen to God in His Word instead of those charlatans you're listening to instead.

JesusIsAll · Jan 20, 2016

I've always seen God's heaven as a vast domain, on the other side what we call space, the firmament of the stars, that we could, if it were possible, go through some portal to, which is to say a real place, way out there. Leave it up to you to find all the many references of scripture to real beings and things existing in God's heaven, including the New Jerusalem. Here are some old, dusty notes on heaven you may find useful:

We are limited in our knowledge of heaven, the Bible telling us more about what will not be in heaven than what will. But the Bible tells us all we need to know about heaven. Heaven is a real place, not a condition or state of mind. Of that paradise where our spirits go after death,

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven. [3] And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) [4] How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

That man was Paul himself. Notice how one could go to heaven in the body, or out of the body. In James, it is noted the body without the spirit is dead,

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Also note that there are three heavens. There is the atmospheric heaven of the fowls, the stellar heaven of the stars, and the heaven which is the abode of God. The first we see by day, the second we see by night, and the third we see by faith. (See Genesis 1:6-8, interesting water above and below the firmament.)

The North Star is unique, a fixed location in earth's view, and heaven could be to the north,

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.

Leviticus 1:10 And if his offering be of the flocks, namely, of the sheep, or of the goats, for a burnt sacrifice; he shall bring it a male without blemish. [11] And he shall kill it on the side of the altar northward before the LORD.

Note how, in Psalms 75, nobody from the east, west, or south can promote (exalt) a man, but only God,

Psalms 75:6 For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south. And note how the devil wanted to set his throne in the north, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north." This implies God is of the north?

The spirits of the saved saints go immediately into the presence of the Lord Jesus at death. Consider these verses:

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: [7] (For we walk by faith, not by sight) [8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

So, a spirit can travel quite fast! (Eat your heart out, Einstein...)

Almost forgot to mention, if you're south of New England, there's Heaven Heights in Massachusetts. Can't vouch for it being perfect, would probably check the crime stats, before simply picking up and moving there.

DP · Jan 20, 2016

JesusIsAll said:

I've always seen God's heaven as a vast domain, on the other side what we call space, the firmament of the stars, that we could, if it were possible, go through some portal to, which is to say a real place, way out there. Leave it up to you to find all the many references of scripture to real beings and things existing in God's heaven, including the New Jerusalem. Here are some old, dusty notes on heaven you may find useful:

We are limited in our knowledge of heaven, the Bible telling us more about what will not be in heaven than what will. But the Bible tells us all we need to know about heaven. Heaven is a real place, not a condition or state of mind. Of that paradise where our spirits go after death,

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven. [3] And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) [4] How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

That man was Paul himself. Notice how one could go to heaven in the body, or out of the body. In James, it is noted the body without the spirit is dead,

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Also note that there are three heavens. There is the atmospheric heaven of the fowls, the stellar heaven of the stars, and the heaven which is the abode of God. The first we see by day, the second we see by night, and the third we see by faith. (See Genesis 1:6-8, interesting water above and below the firmament.)

The North Star is unique, a fixed location in earth's view, and heaven could be to the north,

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.

Leviticus 1:10 And if his offering be of the flocks, namely, of the sheep, or of the goats, for a burnt sacrifice; he shall bring it a male without blemish. [11] And he shall kill it on the side of the altar northward before the LORD.

Note how, in Psalms 75, nobody from the east, west, or south can promote (exalt) a man, but only God,

Psalms 75:6 For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south. And note how the devil wanted to set his throne in the north, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north." This implies God is of the north?

The spirits of the saved saints go immediately into the presence of the Lord Jesus at death. Consider these verses:

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: [7] (For we walk by faith, not by sight) [8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

So, a spirit can travel quite fast! (Eat your heart out, Einstein...)

Almost forgot to mention, if you're south of New England, there's Heaven Heights in Massachusetts. Can't vouch for it being perfect, would probably check the crime stats, before simply picking up and moving there.

That's how I see the state of things right now, like your above Scripture references. But it's not the same with Scripture references to the future time after Christ's return and establishing of His Kingdom here on earth.

I used to think God's River of the waters of life and the tree of life were but metaphors for Christ's Salvation, but when I got into study of all of God's Word, I discovered where God gives us literal details of those things existing on earth in the future, meaning they stopped being just spiritual metaphors in my understanding.

un2him · Jan 20, 2016

DP said:

DP we can certainly agree to disagree but there is no call for you being rude to me. That is just immature and surly is not of God. Maybe you should just run along if you can't control yourself.

JesusIsAll · Jan 20, 2016

DP said:

An interesting thing that comes away, on careful examination, is how some things on earth are mirrors of what is in heaven, on a grander scale. You have Ezekiel's quite exactly specified millennial temple and surroundings, which is larger than any other temple before, but puny, compared to the New Jerusalem (and no temple, anymore). Yet both have living waters flowing from them, trees of life and healing, etc. There's an earthly Mount Zion and a heavenly Mount Zion, when you put it all together. Like the Old Testament being, in fact, about Jesus Christ, when it all clicks, so does one see heaven having earthly mirror images in God's creative design. The depths and unity of all creation is some concept to behold, amazing!

skylove7 · Jan 20, 2016

When I was little our pastor would tell us heaven is more beautiful than anyone could imagine.
This I believe it's true......
Lol
But I do tell Jesus everyday how beautiful He is to me

And for a nature lover here lol
If heaven looked like the forests and mountains of earth
I'd be tickled lol

I told Jesus in prayer
"Jesus....if heaven's too beautiful I may be crying all the time"

No tears in Heaven
Tears of sorrow that is

I imagine it is beyond beautiful!
How I'd handle that
I don't know
But I will be in Jesus hands
So I will be alright

JesusIsAll · Jan 20, 2016

skylove7 said:

When a very young Christian, studying Revelation for the first time, I'd never read anything more beautiful than Revelation chapters 21 and 22. What a glorious, cosmic ending to the New Testament!

Grace777x70 · Jan 20, 2016

Amen!......

[video=youtube;-o7uIwx04SE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o7uIwx04SE[/video]

JesusIsAll said:

where is heaven,the place where the tree of life is and the God of all creation lives

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