Which of Jesus' teachings were applicable only to the Jews?

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Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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Don't be fooled by theology that says that Jesus teachings aren't for us. That isn't true. Jesus teachings are just as applicable for us as they were for them.
The purpose of this thread is to verify if the following statements are true:

--- Not everything that Jesus taught, while He was on earth, apply to Christians;

--- Everything that Jesus taught, through Paul, apply to Christians
.


There are evidences that some (or a few) of Jesus' teachings were only for the Jews. Example: Jesus told the man who was cured of leprosy to show himself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded.

If the statements on the top are proven true they will explain the differences between the Gospels and the Pauline epistles, and will remove any shadow of doubt about Paul's reliability and authority.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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The purpose of this thread is to verify if the following statements are true:

--- Not everything that Jesus taught, while He was on earth, apply to Christians;

--- Everything that Jesus taught, through Paul, apply to Christians
.


There are evidences that some (or a few) of Jesus' teachings were only for the Jews. Example: Jesus told the man who was cured of leprosy to show himself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded.

If the statements on the top are proven true they will explain the differences between the Gospels and the Pauline epistles, and will remove any shadow of doubt about Paul's reliability and authority.
Scripture begs to differ:

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,... 2 Timothy 3:16

I wouldn't be preaching the opposite message to anyone.

Note also 2 Timothy 4:2: "preach the word; be ready in season and out of season with complete patience and teaching..."

That is, with all patience, and with all its teachings (doctrines) unto all.

I've heard the above argument before, but there is nothing in Scripture where Paul is teaching parts are only for this group, or that, specifically Jew or Gentile.

Note also 1 Corinthians 10:11; Romans 15:4.

Simply because Jesus instructed the leper to present himself to the priest does not make that Scripture inapplicable to us. Instead, that Scripture is profitable to us, and it is our duty to study it and find out exactly why.

If the theory in the above response is true, then most of the OT is not profitable or applicable at all to the church, which frankly Paul disproves in the above given Scripture quite concisely.

I'd be very careful in telling others that some doesn't apply to us, because to these it sends a wrong message. All Scripture is profitable, and if profitable, applicable in some way to the Gospel and to our lives.
 

Marcelo

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Feb 4, 2016
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Scripture begs to differ: All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,... 2 Timothy 3:1
I agree! All Scripture is breathed out by God. Jesus told the man who was healed of leprosy to show himself to the priest because the law of Moses was still in force. The Pauline epistles differ from the Gospels because they were breathed out by Jesus through Paul in the dispensation of grace -- when the Law was no longer in effect.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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I agree! All Scripture is breathed out by God. Jesus told the man who was healed of leprosy to show himself to the priest because the law of Moses was still in force. The Pauline epistles differ from the Gospels because they were breathed out by Jesus through Paul in the dispensation of grace -- when the Law was no longer in effect.
There is One Gospel witnessed and recorded according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Where in Paul’s writings can I find the words that give Everlasting life?

Paul gives much insight through the wisdom given him.. he explains so much.. but you do not make your house on His Word but the Words that the Messiah gave.. the Lord’s Testament... the New Covenant..

Paul an Apostle working tirelessly for the Faith... but this differ idea is absurd.
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 8:12, “Therefore [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall by no means walk in darkness, but possess the light of life.”[/FONT]

John 9:5, “While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”


John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”

John/Yahanan 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Scripture begs to differ:

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,... 2 Timothy 3:16

I wouldn't be preaching the opposite message to anyone.

Note also 2 Timothy 4:2: "preach the word; be ready in season and out of season with complete patience and teaching..."

That is, with all patience, and with all its teachings (doctrines) unto all.

I've heard the above argument before, but there is nothing in Scripture where Paul is teaching parts are only for this group, or that, specifically Jew or Gentile.

Note also 1 Corinthians 10:11; Romans 15:4.

Simply because Jesus instructed the leper to present himself to the priest does not make that Scripture inapplicable to us. Instead, that Scripture is profitable to us, and it is our duty to study it and find out exactly why.

If the theory in the above response is true, then most of the OT is not profitable or applicable at all to the church, which frankly Paul disproves in the above given Scripture quite concisely.

I'd be very careful in telling others that some doesn't apply to us, because to these it sends a wrong message. All Scripture is profitable, and if profitable, applicable in some way to the Gospel and to our lives.
All Scripture...that means Genesis through Revelation. So why do some Bibles exalt the words of Jesus when He was on earth by coloring them red? All the words of the Bible are from God. But, we have to rightly divide the word of truth so that we know which words we are to directly obey and which words and commands are to different people in different ages.

The words of God given to Paul are for the Church, the body of Christ, after the nation of Israel has rejected their Messiah. God turns to the Gentile world through Paul. As we follow Paul, we follow what Christ gave to Paul through an abundance of revelations.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 - poimén)."

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]one Shepherd[/FONT]
[/FONT]
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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.. but you do not make your house on His Word but the Words that the Messiah gave..
This is what gays are doing! They are building their castles on the Gospels only -- they totally disregard what Paul wrote. They claim that Jesus never said anything at all about homosexuality.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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This is what gays are doing! They are building their castles on the Gospels only -- they totally disregard what Paul wrote. They claim that Jesus never said anything at all about homosexuality.
No one states to disregard what Paul wrote regard it and learn from it totally as all.. but it affirms what the Lord said... and those that do not accept that it is man and woman like GOD stated.. are not building their house on the Lord’s Testament looking for an excuse to continue.. but certainly not built upon the good Rock because they would not partake in those things.. let us be honest Christ is Righteous and no darkness in Him.

That behaviour was being condemned way before Paul was born... through GOD’s Word...

Thanks for informing me though I have not heard that before.

By the same token they could say it is not one of the 10 Commandments..

And that nothing they do changed their eternal security.. but we can recall Lot... and know what becomes..
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Isaiah 28:16, “Therefore thus said the Master יהוה, “See, I am laying in Tsiyon a stone for a foundation, a tried stone, a precious corner-stone, a settled foundation. He who trusts shall not hasten away.”

John/Yahanan 4:25-26, "The woman said to Him; I know that the Messiah comes, and when He comes, He will tell us all things. Yahshua said to her: I am He speaking to you."

That lady was a gentile. Her people changed the 10 Commandments and she asked Yahshua concerning the exact Law thathad been changed...
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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All Scripture...that means Genesis through Revelation. So why do some Bibles exalt the words of Jesus when He was on earth by coloring them red? All the words of the Bible are from God. But, we have to rightly divide the word of truth so that we know which words we are to directly obey and which words and commands are to different people in different ages.

The words of God given to Paul are for the Church, the body of Christ, after the nation of Israel has rejected their Messiah. God turns to the Gentile world through Paul. As we follow Paul, we follow what Christ gave to Paul through an abundance of revelations.
I think it is not Biblically accurate to suggest Jesus, and Paul taught different doctrines. Especially if you consider ALL of Paul's teaching, and not just the few that can be used to support Mainstream Teaching.

After all, Paul himself said:


Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

This is exactly what Jesus taught.








21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.







22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:




Should we not include these words in our understanding?











 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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All Scripture...that means Genesis through Revelation. So why do some Bibles exalt the words of Jesus when He was on earth by coloring them red?
The sayings of Christ are of great significance since those are the words of God -- teaching all men -- as a Man. There is absolutely nothing wrong with identifying them in red, since all Christians are supposed to give them the special attention they deserve. That certainly does not discount the rest of the Bible, since the OT was also the words of God, as were the epistles and the rest of the NT.

While we know that the words of Christ were addressed primarily to the Jews, they are certainly not limited to the Jews of His day. They are of eternal significance.

As to the false notion that Christ did not address homosexuality, the very fact that He spoke of the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah, and said "Remember Lot's wife" (Lk 17:32) indicates that He was the one who brought severe judgment upon sexual perversion.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Sadly,we can't really classify anyone "non-Christian" anymore. Once protestant reform happened, we started with 3 splits and now I've heard there are over 30,000. Who gets to decide? There are so many who call themselves apostles or get others to call them apostles. And, all think they are "rightly dividing" the Scriptures. Very very sad.

There are so many (usually of the baptist persuasion)--who don't believe the gifts of the Holy Spirit and therefore aren't qualified to be "heresy hunters," yet post messages against almost everyone who actively walks in the gifts. Those that do walk in the gifts just ignore the "heresy hunters" and some come to a bad place where they think they are above accountability and that makes the environment worse for those who are constrained by Scripture and accountability.

There are so many weird variants now that there is no longer a central body to decide (like Acts 15) or even what happened in Act 11 with Peter explaining himself to the brethren.

I recently had an encounter with what I call the "gospel of Paul church." They claim that only what Paul says is for the Gentiles. That is absolutely FALSE, but they pull Scriptures from Paul's writings to claim it and make it believable enough to deceive many. You have seen that deception acknowledged on this thread, as if it were true. But, it is not. Who gets to decide? Jesus Christ!

So, Jesus said that His Words will judge when He returns. I wouldn't want to be one of the ones who decided His Words weren't for them. Luke 9:26: "Whoever is ashamed of Me and My Words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when He comes...." Matt 10:33: Whosoever denies Me before men, ...." And, they might just hear: "I never knew you, depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness." (Matt 7:23)

Have a blessed day and stay on the narrow path!
You go with the Apostles Creed. It was created a long time ago to seperate Christians from non Christians. It is a short definition of the core beliefs Christians have. Everything else is relatively minor distinctives we can agree to disagree with.

Apostles creed


I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried.
He descended into hell.
On the third day He rose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty.
From thence He will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Christian Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
 
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Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
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No one states to disregard what Paul wrote regard it and learn from it totally as all.. but it affirms what the Lord said... and those that do not accept that it is man and woman like GOD stated.. are not building their house on the Lord’s Testament looking for an excuse to continue.. but certainly not built upon the good Rock because they would not partake in those things.. let us be honest Christ is Righteous and no darkness in Him.

That behaviour was being condemned way before Paul was born... through GOD’s Word...

Thanks for informing me though I have not heard that before.

By the same token they could say it is not one of the 10 Commandments..

And that nothing they do changed their eternal security.. but we can recall Lot... and know what becomes..
wait! what became of Lot?
did you mean 2 Peter 2:7-10 ?

(honest question :eek:)
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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I agree! All Scripture is breathed out by God. Jesus told the man who was healed of leprosy to show himself to the priest because the law of Moses was still in force. The Pauline epistles differ from the Gospels because they were breathed out by Jesus through Paul in the dispensation of grace -- when the Law was no longer in effect.
I think you missed an important Biblical fact regarding the man Jesus healed. He healed him without any of the Levitical Priesthood "Works and Deeds of the Law" set apart for the cleansing of a leper. He forgave people without any of the Levitical Priesthood ceremonies and sacrificial "Deeds or works of the Law" for remission of sins. He was the High Priest bore He was murdered. He was healing and forgiving sins without one drop of blood as prescribed by the Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial "Works and Deeds of the Law". This is true, yet it isn't taught in any of the Religious Franchises that make up Mainstream Christianity. Jesus wanted the healed leper to show himself to the Levite Priests as a witness to them. They would surely have know him and his illness and they would also know he was healed and not by their version of the Law.

But the Mainstream Preachers of His time continued to preach the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial, ceremonial "works of the Law" for remission of sins, even after Jesus was killed and resurrected. Both Paul and Peter fought with them over this teaching through out the New Testament.

This doctrine of the Mainstream Preachers even infected some believers in Acts 15, and bewitched the Galatians as well.

Paul had to keep reminding them that no flesh is justified by these "works or deeds of the Law", for remission of sins given by God through Moses, "Till the Seed should come". But by the Faith of God as Abraham showed. Abraham did not have the Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial, "works of the Law" for remission of sins as Levi was not even born yet, yet his sin was forgiven anyway. How? By God's Grace as it is written.

Todays Mainstream Preachers refuse to teach this Biblical truth. To defend their man made doctrines and traditions they preach that the "Works of the Law" Paul speaks to in Romans and Galatians, for the remission or justification of sins is the entire Law structure of God, including the Laws that Abraham was blessed for keeping, and not the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "Works and deeds of the Law" specifically designed for justification and remission of sins until Jesus came..

This is a huge deception that creates contradictions and confusion of Paul's words through out the Bible. Because people don't accept the truth about this issue they are forced to choose between Paul,s words in order to defend man made doctrines and traditions.

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Rom. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Gal. 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal. 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Until you separate yourself from the Mainstream Preachers of today and Paul did of his time, and study the Word of God outside their influence, you will never understand Paul's letters and will be forced to pick and choose what words of his you can use, and what words of his you must ignore to defend man made doctrines and traditions.
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
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The sayings of Christ are of great significance since those are the words of God -- teaching all men -- as a Man. There is absolutely nothing wrong with identifying them in red, since all Christians are supposed to give them the special attention they deserve. That certainly does not discount the rest of the Bible, since the OT was also the words of God, as were the epistles and the rest of the NT.

While we know that the words of Christ were addressed primarily to the Jews, they are certainly not limited to the Jews of His day. They are of eternal significance.

As to the false notion that Christ did not address homosexuality, the very fact that He spoke of the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah, and said "Remember Lot's wife" (Lk 17:32) indicates that He was the one who brought severe judgment upon sexual perversion.
Col. 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


So this means Jesus was the God of the Old Testament, Yes? So it was Jesus who spoke to Cain, and Noah, and Abraham. It was Jesus that created His Sabbath for man, it was Jesus who created his Salvation plan and called them "These are MY Feasts" in Leviticus. Jesus created His Laws. Jesus became a man and lived in those Laws and told us to live in them, told us to "Walk even as He Walked".

How can man separate His Word's between what He said before He became a man, and after He became a man?

I think this is a huge problem with man's doctrines and traditions and how they pick and choose which Word's of Jesus they use, and which Word's of Jesus they reject.
 

Marcelo

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2016
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How can man separate His Word's between what He said before He became a man, and after He became a man?

I think this is a huge problem with man's doctrines and traditions and how they pick and choose which Word's of Jesus they use, and which Word's of Jesus they reject.
We don't need to invent excuses to not obey God, and twisting the Bible truth will only make us deserving of a more severe punishment.

Jesus commanded: "Sell your possessions and give alms". I had a friend some 30 years ago who did that -- he arrogantly claimed to be the only Christian in town (perhaps in the world) who really followed Jesus. A year or so later he had to be supported by his friends and ate a big humble pie.

Before the cross Jesus commanded: "Sell your possessions", but after the cross He didn't confirm the commandment (through Paul). Selling our homes and giving the money to the poor is a nice thing to do provided we are being guided by the Holy Spirit.

What Jesus preached before the cross was Law, so "Sell your possessions" was Law. Jesus' words are eternal, but after the cross they were no longer Law -- they don't have to be obeyed in a read-and-do fashion. Christians will only sell their homes if they are guided by the Holy Spirit to do so.

Jesus told the man who was healed from leper: "show yourself to the priest and present the offering Moses prescribed for your cleansing". Does this teaching apply to Christians? This is what is being discussed here.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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How can man separate His Word's between what He said before He became a man, and after He became a man?
God never was a man a created being. God remains not a man as us. As the Son of man he resisted all forms of worship. He informs us blasphemy will be forgiven unto men to include the Son of man. But will not be forgiven in respect to that not seen the Son of God.

And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is "none good" but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.Mat 19:16