Who did the witch of Endor and saul talk to ?

[Elin]

No it says, "Saul knew it was Samuel."
But if Saul were deceived by Satan, he would be wrong.

There are strong Scriptural indications that it was not Samuel.

Witches do not have the power to bring the redeemed back from their rest in God to this world.
Nor would Samuel have agreed that they could and responded to her summons.

However, Saul believed the delusion, which caused him to prostrate himself before it, and convinced him of the power of divination, thereby turning him over to the power of Satan.

Saul turned away from God and sought advice elsewhere.
But to turn from God is necessarily to turn to Satan.

And Satan's response is deliberately intended to drive Saul to despair and suicide.
Had it been truly Samuel, he would have told him to repent and make peace with God,
to recall David from his banishment of him, and he might hope to find mercy from God.

Satan could foretell his death because God had turned Saul over to Satan for destruction (1Kgs 22:20-22; 1Co 5:5).

2 Thessalonians 2

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Just to cement your point

I believed it was a demon, but I have learned more and believe it was Samuel. That makes more interesting questions about Ouija Boards and Seances though.

What think ye of the above?

 

[Isdaniel]

This was not Samuel witches cannot raied the dead but can talk to demons

Only God can raised the dead

 

[Isdaniel]

God sends angels in dream that looks like love ones at times because He knows you will be more receptive .

 

[jimmydiggs]

What think ye of the above?

All I need is a verse that indicates the dead can't be called under the OT system of "hell". Get me that, and I can work myself the rest of the way. It's because I can't think of anything that indicates as such for the OT system with the sheol business that makes me think, since in the immediate text there seems to be no question that maybe it really is him. I'm a little skeptical in that I'm not emphatic, but I believe at this point it probably was samuel. I don't think it is possible to call up the dead in the NT.

 

[jimmydiggs]

This was not Samuel witches cannot raied the dead but can talk to demons

Only God can raised the dead

As I recall Elisha and Elijah both did, though Elijah with some assistance as it says.

 

[Isdaniel]

1Samuel 28

11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

No it says, "Saul knew it was Samuel."
But if Saul were deceived by Satan, he would be wrong.

Wouldn't it have only said "Saul thought it was Samuel", if that's what it meant? Different words are used in Genesis, when we are told that Isaac mistook Jacob for Esau.

Witches do not have the power to bring the redeemed back from their rest in God to this world.

Agreed. But God does.

Nor would Samuel have agreed that they could and responded to her summons.

Agreed. Unless God had sent him.

And Satan's response is deliberately intended to drive Saul to despair and suicide.

Sometimes, God's judgements seem to us harsh. Look at what He gave Samuel to say to Eli.

Had it been truly Samuel, he would have told him to repent and make peace with God,
to recall David from his banishment of him, and he might hope to find mercy from God.

If Samuel would have told Saul this after his death, surely he also would have told him the same while he was yet alive? Samuel's message to Eli was not repentance, although we may wonder why repentance was not the natural result of such harsh judgement.

Satan could foretell his death because God had turned Saul over to Satan for destruction (1Kgs 22:20-22; 1Co 5:5).

Or God could have raised Samuel specially for the purpose, to surprise even the witch, who was probably expecting her familiar spirit.

1 Samuel 28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

 

[Elin]

Wouldn't it have only said "Saul thought it was Samuel", if that's what it meant? Different words are used in Genesis, when we are told that Isaac mistook Jacob for Esau.

God could have raised Samuel specially for the purpose, to surprise even the witch, who was probably expecting her familiar spirit.

1 Samuel 28:12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

Okay, so the difference is either:

God used a medium to bring Samuel to Saul to accomplish his purpose of Saul's death (1Ch 10:14), or

God allowed Satan, in response to the medium, to impersonate Samuel (2Co 11:14) to deceive Saul because he loved wickedness and did not believe the truth (2Th 2:11-12), in order to drive him to despair and suicide (1Sa 31:4).

In either case, God used a medium to accomplish his purpose of Saul's death (1Ch 10:14).

 

[Elin]

All I need is a verse that indicates the dead can't be called under the OT system of "hell". Get me that, and I can work myself the rest of the way. It's because I can't think of anything that indicates as such for the OT system with the sheol business that makes me think, since in the immediate text there seems to be no question that maybe it really is him. I'm a little skeptical in that I'm not emphatic, but I believe at this point it probably was samuel. I don't think it is possible to call up the dead in the NT.

Why do you think the dead could be called in the OT?

There was no hell in the OT, right?
There was Sheol, which consisted of Paradise, where the righteous were, and Hades, where the wicked were.
According to Jesus, there was fire in Hades.

But Hades is not hell, Gehenna is hell.

 

[Mark51]

When Saul went to the medium, Jehovah’s spirit had for some time been removed from him, and in fact, God would not answer his inquiries by means of dreams or by the Urim (used by the high priest) or by the prophets. (1 Samuel 28:6 ) God would have no more to do with him because of his unfaithfulness; and God’s prophet Samuel had not seen Saul for a long period of time, from before David’s being anointed to be king. Read 1　Samuel 28:15. So it would be unreasonable to think that Samuel, even if still alive, would now come to give Saul advice. And God would certainly not cause Samuel, whom he had not sent to Saul before his death, to come back from the dead to talk to Saul.-1 Samuel 15:35.

Jehovah would in no way approve of or cooperate with Saul’s action is shown by his later statement at Deuteronomy 18:9-11 and Isaiah 8:19.

Therefore, when the account reads: “When the woman saw ‘Samuel’ she began crying out at the top of her voice,” it obviously recounts the event as viewed by the medium, who was deceived by the spirit/demon that impersonated Samuel. (1 Samuel 28:12) As for Saul himself, the principle stated by the apostle Paul applied at Romans 1:28-32.
　

 

[st_sebastian]

Therefore, when the account reads: “When the woman saw ‘Samuel’

There are no such quotes in the text. Can we add whatever quotation marks we'd like to indicate that the word the Bible uses is meant to be suspect?

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only "Son," that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

That changes everything. How about:

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ "died" for us.

If we can insist that the Bible is being coy, the possibilities are endless!

it obviously recounts the event as viewed by the medium

Do we now have to question every time the Bible identifies someone? When Samson and Delilah talk, perhaps Delilah was mistaken and it was actually Samson's twin brother? Maybe it wasn't Jesus on the Mount. Maybe the women at the well just reported an aneurysm.

Furthermore, why didn't the Bible just say so? It had words for evil spirits. It didn't say "an evil spirit that appeared as Samuel," but just plain old "Samuel." Why make that unnecessary ambiguity?

 

[Elin]

Therefore, when the account reads: “When the woman saw ‘Samuel’

There are no such quotes in the text. Can we add whatever quotation marks we'd like to indicate that the word the Bible uses is meant to be suspect?

Read 1Sa 28:12 again.

 

[danschance]

To those who think it was not Samuel:
Please show me where in the bible it says it was not Samuel. Otherwise you are simply giving your opinion to me.

 

[The_highwayman]

No, it was a lying spirit...

2Ch 18:20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
2Ch 18:21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.
2Ch 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

This was a lying spirit impersonating Samuel.

Wrong, the story in 2 Chronicles 18 has zero to do with Samuel and everything to do with Jehoshaphat, Ahab, 400 false prophet of Ahab and One true prophet Micaiah the son of Imla. The lying spirit went into the 400 false prophets to appease Ahab and the lying spirit told Ahab the Lord was behind him when he was not Ahab wanted to attack on Syria at Ramothgilead. Ahab died that day.

Read the entire account and never again take something so far out of context it is basically a lie. you cause others to stumble, when you do this.

 

[The_highwayman]

when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets. (28:6)Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit . . . Behold, there is a woman with a familiar spirit at Endor.'

1: a spirit or demon that serves or prompts an individual

2: the spirit of a dead person invoked by a medium to advise or prophesy

I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him (the familiar spirit) up, whom I shall name unto thee.
>a consulter with familiar spirits - Deut. 18:10 - impersonates the dead using familiar spirits - the familiar spirits are very informed/familiar concerning the person they are speaking to or about.<

The spirit/demon spoke through the woman with the familiar spirit and called himself Samuel. . .Remember the LORD had departed from Saul and answered him not - even through the prophets (28:6)

Agreed and lets also look at at 1 Sam 28.13
And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

 

[The_highwayman]

To those who think it was not Samuel:
Please show me where in the bible it says it was not Samuel. Otherwise you are simply giving your opinion to me.

1 Sam 28.13
And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

The Bible does not say it was Samuel, the Bible says in verse 14:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

The Bible never said it was samuel, the Bible says Saul perceived it to be Samuel...those are 2 very different things.

 

[The_highwayman]

God told Hosea to marry a prostitute and adulteress (Hosea 1:2) I explained Ess. 9:10 above. God used Satan to kill Jesus through men.

What are you talking about!?!? God NEVER & DID NOT use Satan to kill Jesus through men

You should be very careful here, you are stating a unintentional lie.

Jesus said in red in John 10.17-18:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Stop thinking Jesus was killed he laid himself down. He even told us that

Be careful man, someone else wont go as easy as I did.

 

[Selihah]

the words i read tells me Saul spoke with Samuel

 

[Isdaniel]

As I recall Elisha and Elijah both did, though Elijah with some assistance as it says.

they both raised the dead by God power hmmm witches do miracles by satans power

 

[Isdaniel]

the words i read tells me Saul spoke with Samuel

hmmm how do you understand the MOunt of tansfiguration ? was that literally Moses and Elijah ?