Who told you the Bible was God's word ?

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Jul 22, 2014
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#21
Can the same not be said for protestants ? The Church is made up of sinners... so, it is a mistake to judge "a church" based on the actions of its members.
Besides all the other problems with the RCC, they break one of the 10 Commandments within their own Bibles. They bow down and worship idols. Do you think God would want you to bow down to statues? Especially if He told you not to do it? Does not bowing down to a statue naturally take away worship of God?

So, based on your response you believe that the Word of God as contained in the Bible was not perfected until 1769. Yet, since you are obviously protestant you hold that the Bible is the final christian authority...
So, what then ? The faithful have not had a perfect final authority for the first 1769 years ? God left His faithful without a perfect guide ? sounds a bit far fetched
Your not getting it, my friend. English people are not the kings of the world. We are not the center of the universe. God loves all people equally. A person can get saved by hearing a few verses in the Bible. God's guarantee or promise to provide a perfect Word is for reaching that world with the treasures of His knowledge. English was not the world language during the 1600's. Today. English is the world language. It was God's choice and timing of when He provided a perfect Word for our time. God's thoughts are not our thoughts. Are you saying you know better than God? Are you infinite in power and wisdom like God?
 
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JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#22

If your referenc is to including the Apocrypha, most people who love the Word have read the Apocrypha. Perhaps, were you to post a question taking a poll, you will find this to be true here.

I do know when the Holy Spirit first entered into me, I was taken to a backroom by the Spirit in a coffee house on my campus where I encountered a blue book opened face down. I had not read the Word, though I had made a few attempts at reading, it always seemd so luguborous and it did not seem to make a lot of sense.

I picked up this book and began reading. I started and could not put it down. Every word was alive. I looked at the top of the page and it said something about Isaiah. Looking at the cover, I discovered it was the Oxford University Study Bible. The followingday I high taled it to the student book store, bought my own Oxford Bible, and I have not stopped readingthe Word in one for or another since. Actually, Isaiah teaches all anyone need know, however love reading all of the Word, for it is Jesus Chrsit.

All Bibles I have read, ASV, KJV, Oxford, and more, d several New Testaments in English, French and Spanish. Not stopping there recently studied Hebrew just enough to read the Old Testament, the Tanakh, in Hebrew, and as of today I am reading a version of the New Testament in Hebrew.

When one is learned of the Holy Spirit, he learns he truth, be it one of the above mentioned Bibls, or be it from a computer manual. If it iis God's will, one may learn from any source as long as the Holy Spiri is in charge.

While sharing the Wod in the Rocky Mountains severa years, I discovered US American Indian folklore that hinted strongly of the coming of he Messiah, and the story is told in the star...............Beleive me, it is best to read the Wor of God, and He ill teach you..amen.
 
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Jul 22, 2014
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#23
Well, I have to disagree on the point of the Apocrypha. It is in direct violation to the rest of Scripture. I don't think any Christian should read it. Stay in God's Word.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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#24
So, who told you the Bible was God's word ? And why did you believe it ?

There were many early writings Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers , so... somebody decided to choose which ones were and were not going to be in the Bible.

Why do you accept their decisions ?



what a great Q? and it does deserve a good answer not sure if one will agree but that is not important that any agree with me :) "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb. 11:6

God is a God who desires to reveal Himself. He does not remain silent like the gods of the heathen, both ancient and modern. God took pleasure in making Himself known to His creatures. Now the thoughts of a man can only be disclosed by the man himself. Likewise , only God can make Himself known. The God of the Bible is a God who speaks , we Christians believe that. Why we believe that will come later please be patience. From creation , all down through history, God revealed Himself by speaking. He spoke and the universe sprang forth. " By the word of the Lord were the heavens made: and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth" Ps 33:6.

God has chosen to speak to men through the year and is seen in History and in the historical Narrative of the bible. But God had the greatest Revelation in the person of Jesus Christ, the word incarnate: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God , and the Word was God and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us( Jn 1:1-14). it is very important to defend the word of God as a Christian however, God Keeps His word all by Himself. there is plenty of evidence to the authoritative, inerrant, fully and completely the Word of God; that we Christians call the bible. And Jesus our Lord is the greatest testament to the Word of God because He is the Word of God. over 700 prophecies filled in relation to Jesus spoken 600 to 700 hundred years before His Birth. In addition we have the letters of Eyewitnesses and their recorded words that have not been proven untrue. The Word of the bible has been and continue to be examined, mocked, scoffed, studied, read, quoted, and believed for over 2000 years by Christian faithful. There are more manuscripts for the bible over 40,000 of them that can be studied as they continue to be. More historical data and archeological finding about the God of the bible than there is writings of famous philosophers Aristotle, Plato, and Socrates who if he wrote anything please try to find it. dates are very important the in context to these well known philosophers Plato 428 to c. 348 BC. many years before the new testament writings found in the bible but not before the writers of the old testament 39 books in the old testament and over 40 different authors over a period not less than 1,500 years, many of whom never saw each other. yet it's unity and continuity are so apparent it is easy to think of it having just one author - and that none other than God Himself. Remember he alone keeps His Word.



It too is interesting to note the Variety of Occupational backgrounds of authors who are known"

two were kings David / Solomon
two were Priests Jeremiah/ Ezekial
Luke a Physician
Two were fishermen peter/ John
Two were Shepherds Moses / Amos
Paul Pharisee/theologian
Daniel statesman
Matthew tax collector
Joshua Soldier
Ezra scribe

the occupations of other are not known.

Your statement and question about : "choose which ones were and were not going to be in the Bible.
Why do you accept their decisions ?"

Is a very good one and I think it desires respect.
this bring us to what is known as the " CANON OF SCRIPTURES" . That being said please know that I believe the Holy Spirit of God is more than capable to teach those who have relationship with the lord Jesus Christ, and as I try to explain why I have faith in Gods Word I must say it is ever settled for me that God is real and it is well known that many will attack the Bible because it is believed to be the word of God. why ? because if the bible is not the word of God then there is NO God. That is why it is important for all Christians to studied and be ready to give an answer to why they believe but it is not important for us as Christian to make other believe. They will accept it or they will not I choose to leave them in the hands of the Lord and keep my faith in God. What I don't know , I don't know and I am not able to fully remove any doubt to the existence of the Speaking God it is a walk of faith which I am not ashamed.


The word Canon comes from the Greek kanon, meaning " a measuring rod or reed. and signifies a rule , a standard. Hence, the Canon of the Bible consists of those books considered worthy to be included in the holy Scriptures. Canonization was the result of a centuries-long development, whereby only those writings that proved useful for faith and worship were elevated to such a role. now there is a whole lot to explain to your statement and question with hundreds of years to explain so please for give the snap shot in time.

The Apocrypha the word as usually understood means : "Apocryphal books" and refers to fourteen books which have been added to the Old Testament, and held to be a part of the sacred canon, particularly by the Roman Catholic Church. Protestants generally do not include these in the bible. the Septuagint ( LXX) contained the apochryphal books. Jerome included them in his Latin translation of the Old Testament, called the Vulgate. These books are not a part of the Hebrew bible. The Reformers were largely responsible for eliminating the Apocrypha from the Bible. because they contained things which are inconsistent with Protestant doctrine( e.g the doctrine of prayer for the dead and intercession to the saints).

why consider Canonization?

It is not difficult to understand that, at the time the canon was being considered, there were many books in existence which would lay claim to consideration. These writings were generally divided into what has been called the pseudepigrapha and the apocfrypha. there was a battle going on and many groups writers and heretical books which are considered false by Church fathers and many heretical doctrines held Gnostics who denied the incarnation of Christ; the docetics who denied the reality of Christ's humanity; and the monophysites, who rejected the dual nature of Christ are found in these books. over 280 of these books have been listed and grouped under the heading : gospel, Acts, Epistles. this is why we measure scripture in the light of other scriptures and accept certain writing over other that attack the standard or the truth of our Lord Jesus Christ. Deny Him your not authoritative, and labeled false and anti-Christ.

Christians believe in the Inerrancy of the Scriptures " meaning that in its original autographs the bible contains no mistakes. In the original languages in which it was written , it is absolutely infallible. - without error whatever. This has been the position of all the confessions of the great evangelical churches down through the years.

In contrast to this atheist, agnostics and liberal theologians have declared the Bible to be full of errors. Indeed there are those who teach "limited inerrancy", claiming the bible to be inerrant in the matters of faith and practice, but not necessarily so in scientific and historical matters. The problem with this position is, who is going to decide what is true and what is not? If one cannot have a positive faith in the infallibility of this book, how can we speak with final authority when it comes to matters of eternity?


The testimony to inerrancy

where did the doctrine of inerrancy come from?
the Scriptures themselves. it claims to be the inspired by God " All scriptures is given by inspiration of God " 2Tim 3:16
2pet 1:21 Dt 4:2, and many many more.

this is just my opening statement as why the bible is the Word of God. I believe that Genesis to Revelation is fully and completely the Word of God because each of the 66 books written by men as the Holy Spirit enabled them to do so concerning all about man need for God and the plan for man by God and a relationship with God through our Lord Jesus Christ and the testimony I have in HIM because HE saved me it is forever settled. God bless you I hope this helps ever man has to work out his salvation with reverence, humbleness.

Every knee shall bow and every Tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father.
 
I

IAm3rd

Guest
#25
Your not getting it, my friend. English people are not the kings of the world. We are not the center of the universe. God loves all people equally. A person can get saved by hearing a few verses in the Bible. God's guarantee or promise to provide a perfect Word is for reaching that world with the treasures of His knowledge. English was not the world language during the 1600's. Today. English is the world language. It was God's choice and timing of when He provided a perfect Word for our time. God's thoughts are not our thoughts. Are you saying you know better than God? Are you infinite in power and wisdom like God?
I never spoke about language... what difference does language make ? Im talking about which books belong in the Bible, not what language they are in. Not sure why you are talking about that...

So I ask again... if the Bible is the final authority, and it wasnt perfected until 1776, what was the perfect final authority prior to 1776 ?
 
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IAm3rd

Guest
#26
1769, sorry
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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#27
in answering your Q? languages was not all I wrote about :) and perfected in 1776 please provide your ref's to that statement
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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#28
Well said, most assuredly. It actually seems silly to think, on the one hand we have inspired scripture, are instructed to learn from scripture, on the other hand the Lord allows His word to be corrupted such that no translation of purity exists. The Lord tells us we must seek and obey truth, then that truth be lost, with all creation under the supervision of Almighty God? In other words, tell us to pay attention to all scripture, without all scripture being truth? The Lord can create the heavens and the earth, create life, raise the dead, but can't see to a reliable book? Just the notion seems so ridiculous to me. I couldn't have faith in and trust a God I couldn't also trust to competently write a book, and
perhaps it's trying to cast such doubt of the Holy Bible the devil is really up to?
Dat's da truf.

God-breathed the Scriptures to reveal himself to us so that we might savingly know him and his truth.

That alone tells me that he will fulfill his purpose by preserving his word to the end of time.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#29
Dat's da truf. God-breathed the Scriptures to reveal himself to us so that we might savingly know him and his truth. That alone tells me that he will fulfill his purpose by preserving his word to the end of time.
I know'd it, know'd it, know'd it, too!
 

Elin

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Jan 19, 2013
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#30
Interesting responses.

So it sounds like you all believe that God was guiding the men who made the decisions on which books belonged... Yet here is the thing : The Bible that you are most likely talking about contains 7 less books that the original Bible.
Think about this...
you cannot find a single Bible in the entire history of Christianity prior to a few hundred years ago
that didn't have 73 books/epistles
.

So, the question becomes, If God had his hand in guiding those men in the beginning,
who had the authority to remove them ?
The same one who had the authority to remove the Aaronic priesthood and the sacrifices.

Surely God did not suddenly reveal the true canon just recently... or change his mind.
The apocrypha are in the Jewish canon, which the Catholic church adopted.

As far as I am concerned, it is evident they are not Scripture from the lack of majesty in their style,
and the lack of power and effectiveness on mind and heart.
 
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phil112

Guest
#31
Jul 22, 2014
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#32
I never spoke about language... what difference does language make ? Im talking about which books belong in the Bible, not what language they are in. Not sure why you are talking about that...

So I ask again... if the Bible is the final authority, and it wasnt perfected until 1776, what was the perfect final authority prior to 1776 ?
First, it is 1769. Second, like, I said, Christians knew the Apocrypha is not inspired. Today there are a ton of study Bibles. You will see all kinds of added notes and articles in these Bibles. Christians know these added notes are not inspired. Third, language makes all the difference. It shows God did preserve his Word still.
 
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Jul 22, 2014
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#33
In fact, your user name is " I Am 3rd." Do you know that the number 3 in the Bible is not just a random occurence? Also, Jesus calls Himself the " I AM " several times in Scripture (See John chapter 8). Why is this important? Because in Exodus 3. There is that number again. We learn that God wants Moses to declare to His people that He is called the " I AM ." it's why the Pharisees went ape crazy when He said He said He was the " I AM " as an explanation as to why He seen Abraham.

Anyways, there is a pattern of the Number 3 that you can't tear out of the Bible. It is there whether we like it or not. It's appearance and theme speaks either of the Trinity or the resurrection. Over and over. Other Numbers do the same thing. It's not that we are to put our trust in Bible Numbers as if they are some kind of magical thing whereby we tell the future with them (Like some wrongfully do), but these numbers exist within the Scripture as a part of confirming the divine inspiration of God's Word and for us to be in awe of God.

Just check out the Number 3 or any other Number at this link here:

http://gracebbc.dyndns.org:81/TheSignificanceOfBibleNumbers.pdf
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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#34
Phil112 amen :)
 
Jul 22, 2014
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#35
First, it is 1769. Second, like, I said, Christians knew the Apocrypha is not inspired. Today there are a ton of study Bibles. You will see all kinds of added notes and articles in these Bibles. Christians know these added notes are not inspired. Third, language makes all the difference. It shows God did preserve his Word still.
On my third point, I want to explain a little better.

Imagine 8 index cards.

4 Index cards say:

(1) Hebrew
(2) Greek
(3) Latin
(4) English

The other 4 index cards say:

(1) Israelite Nation (Which Spoke & Wrote Hebrew) is Chosen Nation to Reach the World.
(2) Greek is World Language.
(3) Latin is World Language.
(4) English is World Language.

Now, if you were to line up the first 4 set of cards with second set of 4 cards you would have a perfect alignment. Each language corresponds with the fact that it was God's intention to provide a perfect Word for the world language or in the case with the Israelites, it was the chosen language (or chosen people) God used to spread His love and salvation to other nations.

Okay, we have a perfect alignment of the cards. But we know, that there was a Bible in English that was not perfect yet before the English language became a world language. So which Scriptures at that time was the perfect Word of God then? Well, you would then revert back to the previous card that says, Latin is the World language. Meaning the Scriptures were preserved perfectly for mankind in the world language of Latin before the KJV came into being the next chosen language that the Bible would be preserved into perfectly in 1769.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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#36
God speaks to me in his own language and shows me things as he wants me to see them..
he will speak to us just as he did to everyone he spoke to in the bible.
Well actually, not quite.

God gave new and authoritative revelation in the OT and NT Scriptures.

God gives no more new and authoritative revelation since he has spoken his final revelation
to us by his Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.

All that God wants and intends for us to know is in the Scriptures.
So anything we think God gives us apart from the Scriptures will always agree with Scripture
or it is not from God, for he does not contradict himself.

when I started reading the bible I thought... "these people didnt have a book , or anything" , so where did their inspiration to write what was written come from... from whom did they recieve ? . from that point i thought... im reading what god has already done in a different era a different time a different place...
god is here in this place "now"and I can have a relationship and write what god is doing here now just like they did then...
I keep wondering...
are we subjected to the bible to keep our own relationship with god from developing? There are so many people in the bible none the same, all used in different ways and instead of looking at how god individually created each of us for his own purpose
we keep comparing who we are with what he already created.
Well, Scripture is not just history.

It is God's revelation of himself personally and of his truth.

So the Bible doesn't keep our own relationship with God from developing,
for there can be no real relationship in Spirit and in truth with the God who is,
as distinct from the God of our own notions,
unless it is based in and on his revelation of himself and his truth in Scripture.

My god is huge, his ideas are original... I mean just look at everything in the world..new things are always popping up at warp speed... are we limiting god by our limited thinking... or
are we enlarging "his" territory
"knowing" he can manifest something greater in who he has created us to be...

im having a hard time wrapping my mind around a book written that long ago that we are to be exactly like the people in it... we are always comparing instead of allowing god to manifest himself what he is doing "today" . We are missing today keeping our eyes locked on years already passed. Im excited about what god is doing, today he is with us, today he is walking and talking with us, today is his hour his second his moment...
the question I ask myself is... how well am I walking with him in it
Keeping in mind that we must be sure we take our notions of God from the Scriptures in order that
the God whom we seek is the God revealed in the Bible, rather than a God of our own notions.
 
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CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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#37
if the 1769 translation is accurate from the latin translation and you can measure the accuracies from the Original translation from the Hebrew and Greek into English language what is the point of 1769 or any other year for that matter if the translation if from the original writings?
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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#38
Excellent question!

It is a certainty that the bible is a collection of books written by people who lived in quite different cultures.

It is a certainty that the bible provides significant insights on the societies and customs of these old epochs.

Everything else is pure speculation
!
It's obvious you have never experienced the Bible's power.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#39
Keeping in mind that we must be sure we take our notions of God from the Scriptures in order that
the God whom we seek is the God revealed in the Bible, rather than a God of our own notions.
As if not to mention how many servers would have so much less secondary storage space wasted.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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#40
Can the same not be said for protestants ? The Church is made up of sinners... so, it is a mistake to judge "a church" based on the actions of its members.

So, based on your response you believe that the Word of God as contained in the Bible was not perfected until 1769. Yet, since you are obviously protestant you hold that the Bible is the final christian authority...
So, what then ? The faithful have not had a perfect final authority for the first 1769 years ?
God left His faithful without a perfect guide ? sounds a bit far fetched
The protestant canon did not add anything that was not already there, so the perfect guide was always there.

They removed what did not agree in doctrine with the NT, like praying for the dead.