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N
Maybe its just me....but sometimes maybe ppl confuse the sin and the sinner. We are supposed to not condone the sin, while still showin love to the sinner. You dont have to back up the lifestyle. You can say Hey, i care about you as a person, and your soul, but I wont back up your lifestyle. I have many family members that are sinners, do i love them any less? No. I would still do any thing in my power to help them when they ask, but they know where i stand.
Christ died for ALL sin and for ALL sinners. We should have that down pat with no problems because it is the center of everything we believe. Jesus Christ and Him crucified. The gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. We live by the faith of the Son of God, who died and gave His life for us and we do not frustrate the grace of God. Living in sin, of any kind, is frustrating the grace of God, so we preach the cross of Christ that crucified ALL sin. You can't preach the cross of Christ without involving sin and the sinner because Christ became sin. That means that He paid for ALL sin with His blood as the Sin Bearer and through death, He died in the sinner's place as the substitutionary Lamb.
The sinner, no matter what kind of sin they have lived and participated in, must turn to Christ and believe upon Him as their Sin Bearer. That turning has nothing to do with love but has to do with justice that was met by Christ on behalf of the sinner. For the sinner to be cleansed and forgiven of sin, they have no choice but to turn to Christ through believing upon the Son, who bore their sin upon His body. Once they believe, their own personal sin, that was put away by Christ, is no longer a part of their life, because they have been cleansed from it and have been given the righteousness of God to replace it through the new birth. God declares them righteous without imputing a single sin unto them and they are clean and justified and complete in Christ.
The point is, that you can't separate the sin and the sinner because they are one. You can't have a sinner without the sin. God's justice hates the sinner as much as He hates the sin of the sinner and will send the uncleaned sinner to hell without the Son. But God SO loved the world that He gave His Son to satisfy His justice to give life to the sinner that believes upon His Son. He that has the Son has life and he that has not the Son has not life. Many people have a problem with the sin of certain sinners because they don't understand the justice of God and the sacrifice of Christ. So God sent His Son to deal with sin, so that He could reconcile the sinner to Himself by imputing All sin to His Son and not to the sinner. The sinner is able to be reconciled by grace and through faith in Christ, who put away his sin through the finished work of Christ. The justice of God has been satisfied for us and in us, as sinners, when we believe upon Christ. When we receive Him, we are given grace and power over sin and death.
The sinner, no matter what kind of sin they have lived and participated in, must turn to Christ and believe upon Him as their Sin Bearer. That turning has nothing to do with love but has to do with justice that was met by Christ on behalf of the sinner. For the sinner to be cleansed and forgiven of sin, they have no choice but to turn to Christ through believing upon the Son, who bore their sin upon His body. Once they believe, their own personal sin, that was put away by Christ, is no longer a part of their life, because they have been cleansed from it and have been given the righteousness of God to replace it through the new birth. God declares them righteous without imputing a single sin unto them and they are clean and justified and complete in Christ.
The point is, that you can't separate the sin and the sinner because they are one. You can't have a sinner without the sin. God's justice hates the sinner as much as He hates the sin of the sinner and will send the uncleaned sinner to hell without the Son. But God SO loved the world that He gave His Son to satisfy His justice to give life to the sinner that believes upon His Son. He that has the Son has life and he that has not the Son has not life. Many people have a problem with the sin of certain sinners because they don't understand the justice of God and the sacrifice of Christ. So God sent His Son to deal with sin, so that He could reconcile the sinner to Himself by imputing All sin to His Son and not to the sinner. The sinner is able to be reconciled by grace and through faith in Christ, who put away his sin through the finished work of Christ. The justice of God has been satisfied for us and in us, as sinners, when we believe upon Christ. When we receive Him, we are given grace and power over sin and death.
S
God is not going to send SIN to Hell.
God is going to allow impenitent SINNERS to live apart from Him forever.
This is their choice. They don't want His will in their lives now. He isn't going to force it on them forever.
Unfortunately, the only place where God is not going to be is where sinners are going. This place was prepared for the devil and his angels.
It is called Hell (gehenna); lake of fire; where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched; where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth; a place described as outer darkness.
God is going to allow impenitent SINNERS to live apart from Him forever.
This is their choice. They don't want His will in their lives now. He isn't going to force it on them forever.
Unfortunately, the only place where God is not going to be is where sinners are going. This place was prepared for the devil and his angels.
It is called Hell (gehenna); lake of fire; where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched; where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth; a place described as outer darkness.
C
You're right, I'm not gay, but I know that the Bible is clear about homosexuality being a sin. I certainly empathize with them, we all struggle with temptation and I can't say I know how they feel. I also don't know how lots of people feel who commit other sins that I haven't committed yet I know what they're doing is wrong.
Just because it's hard to resist temptation and not sin doesn't mean that we condone it. Honestly Grim, I'm able to say it easily because of what the Bible says. You do have to love the sinner and hate the sin Grim.
Saying I can't say something's wrong because I'm not engaging in it doesn't make sense. For example, I'm not an adulterer but I know adultery is wrong.
Just because it's hard to resist temptation and not sin doesn't mean that we condone it. Honestly Grim, I'm able to say it easily because of what the Bible says. You do have to love the sinner and hate the sin Grim.
Saying I can't say something's wrong because I'm not engaging in it doesn't make sense. For example, I'm not an adulterer but I know adultery is wrong.
Adultery has direct victims, people get hurt. Homosexuality is no more able to hurt anyone than a normal relationship. It's not harmful, so why should God care? More what I meant by my previous comment was that it makes GENUINELY (sp?) happy. It's two people getting together to spend the rest of their lives together, and sometimes it ends up better off than a heterosexual relationship. Something I am not rather fond of is people saying that the bible says it's wrong, so it is. I think there is such a thing as healthy skeptacalism (sp again?). Nothing should be undoubted, or people (note that the bible was written by men, not directly from god) are going to use you to promote their own agenda. I'm not saying go out be gay for a day and tell me what you think, but base it on your own experiences.
C
I understand what you're saying and I want to mention that this isn't something that I treat nonchalantly. I've thought about this over and over again myself. I wonder to myself what it would feel like if I had those feelings for the same sex and how hard that might be. I wonder if maybe the references were meant for a different time. But Grim, when you read the scripture it seems pretty direct, clear and not even able to be written off as "figurative."
You should question things, there's no doubt about that. You should pray and ask God for guidance and continue to learn all you can. The problem I see though Grim is that you want to base morality on your experience and that's the experience of what the world says is right.
About adultery, no one is hurt by that logic if the couple agrees to sleep with other people. Just because they reason in their heads that it's okay, doesn't mean it is.
Romans 1:24-32:
rig
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
In regards to the Bible being written by man...
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16).
You should question things, there's no doubt about that. You should pray and ask God for guidance and continue to learn all you can. The problem I see though Grim is that you want to base morality on your experience and that's the experience of what the world says is right.
About adultery, no one is hurt by that logic if the couple agrees to sleep with other people. Just because they reason in their heads that it's okay, doesn't mean it is.
Romans 1:24-32:
rig
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
In regards to the Bible being written by man...
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16).
S
lol you say homosexuality is not able to hurt anyone???? What if you were a homosexual... and your mom wanted grandchildren... would you be able to give them to her??? do you think that would not be hurtful? would you ever be able to reproduce at all??? no.... obviously not. Did you know AIDS in america is spread most through homosexual couples..... Your absolutely right though... WHY should god care psshhh its only AIDS! being a homosexual isnt harmful at all is it! The bible was written by men but god gave them what to say.......
C
The bible was written by God inspired people so lets not just say the bible was written by man.Lets not try and adjust the Word to suit our understanding or our situations. Lets pray for wisdom in understanding what we read. Seek understanding from mature christians who might have a better understanding of the subject than us.
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Homosexuality is clearly wrong. But we are not supposed to hate anybody. Just hate the sin.
Homosexuality is clearly wrong. But we are not supposed to hate anybody. Just hate the sin.
E
Oh boy... I'm not a fan of bringing this up, but I'll do it again. I used to be homosexual. And yeah, I'll agree, it does seem that people have an easier time condemning homosexuality compared with other things because they've never struggled with the temptation... that doesn't make what they're saying any less true. It's still wrong, and awesomely, God can set us free from it.
How can we claim to love someone if we don't condone what brings them joy? Let's say they like vandalizing houses... or cutting themselves... obviously you can point out that these hurt themselves or others in more blatant ways than homosexuality, but the point is you can still love people who do these things so much that you wish they would stop for THEIR sake... you don't want to see them go down the path they're going EVEN though they enjoy what they're doing. Love is not about letting someone do whatever they want... it's about wanting the very best for them
How can we claim to love someone if we don't condone what brings them joy? Let's say they like vandalizing houses... or cutting themselves... obviously you can point out that these hurt themselves or others in more blatant ways than homosexuality, but the point is you can still love people who do these things so much that you wish they would stop for THEIR sake... you don't want to see them go down the path they're going EVEN though they enjoy what they're doing. Love is not about letting someone do whatever they want... it's about wanting the very best for them