Why christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas.

[BradC]

We speak of paganism and defilement and idolatry and how we should refrain from these and we should, absolutely without equivocation, but don't you think it is ironic that God has redeemed us and while we are still here on earth he has us living in a body of sin and death, made of flesh, that is perishing in corruption daily, which includes an old sin nature still intact, a sick head and a heart that is deceitful and desperately wicked. In all of this He decides to take up residency and indwell us through the Holy Spirit until the day of our redemption, our hope of glory. How good God is and how secure He is in the work that he has begun IN us.

 

[RedTent]

We speak of paganism and defilement and idolatry and how we should refrain from these and we should, absolutely without equivocation, but don't you think it is ironic that God has redeemed us and while we are still here on earth he has us living in a body of sin and death, made of flesh, that is perishing in corruption daily, which includes an old sin nature still intact, a sick head and a heart that is deceitful and desperately wicked. In all of this He decides to take up residency and indwell us through the Holy Spirit until the day of our redemption, our hope of glory. How good God is and how secure He is in the work that he has begun IN us.

Isn't this the truth! We die to self and put on Christ.

That is why my posts are all for using the feasts to celebrate at least in addition to ours, if not instead of. Christians use man made ones to zero in on worship and they are made to bring out Christ to the world, but it is still true what God says about using pagan ideas and converting them to Christian ones, it doesn't work out for the best all around. Now, Christmas is pretty commercial. We can rely on God, even to follow God's ideas of how to celebrate. It could be commercialized, too, but at least we would have scripture to back up our celebration.

 

[spacefreak]

as Christians during Christmas it about celebrating Christ's birth, that is the true meaning

 

[CS1]

this is always a issue as the holiday season comes to be. the truth is Christ-Mas was created by the Church to combat pagan holidays but you will never hear that. In addition we really do not know when Christ birth happened. It is a walk of faith that we believe it did happen. Also Christmas is a tradition to celebrate the birth of Our Lord The Bible says to Render Honor were Honor is due... some traditions are not in the bible however, there is a lot of thing we do that is not in the Bible but bring glory to God. we need not to stop the celebration of Christmas but I think we are to redeem the day and make it a day that bring glory to God. those who would suggest it is idol worship or paganism only see it from one side of History and attack and call you names because you celebrate Christmas. Brother and sister God know the reason why you are doing it and if you are taking one day to celebrate Jesus Birth you go right ahead without any condemnation or concern of self-righteous church folk who are alone during the Christmas season send them a a Christmas card and tell them that Jesus loves them that will bring glory to God . oh hey Merry Christmas !!!!! Jesus Loves you

 

[TruthisPower]

[/FONT]

Do you wear a wedding ring? Did you have a traditional wedding? Do you use the names of the days of the week like everyone else? These are just a few of the normal behaviors Christians include themselves in that actually have pagan roots to them. Society is filled with nods towards ancient paganism, and Christians participate them. I hope for your sake, if you're going to make such a loud rant against pagan histories, you have made a person choice to cleat out ALL pagan roots from your life. Not just the ones that are convenient for you to make ranting posts at others about.

Granted, the fact that an object, a design, or a practice has roots or parallels in ancient false religion does not always rule such out for a true worshipper. Consider the pomegranate.The pomegranate seems also to have been used as a holy symbol in heathen religions. Nevertheless, God had pomegranates made of thread put on the hem of the high priest's garment, and pomegranates decorated the copper pillars of Solomon's temple. (Exodus 28:33 and 2 Kings 25:17) Moreover, the wedding ring at one time had religious significance. Yet, most people today do not know that, considering a wedding ring a mere evidence that someone is married.

Actually there are conflicting ideas as to the origin of the wedding ring. Here's few examples: Originally the ring was a fetter, used to bind the captive bride. (For Richer, for Poorer) The ring is a relatively modern substitute for the gold coin or other article of value with which a man literally purchased his wife from her father. The wedding ring is supposed to be of Roman origin, and to have sprung from the ancient custom of using rings in making agreements. Various explanations have been given of the connection of the ring with marriage. It would appear that wedding rings were worn by the Jews prior to Christian times.

It is thus seen that the precise origin of the wedding ring is uncertain. Even if it were a fact that pagans first used wedding rings, would that rule such out for Christians? Not necessarily. Many of today's articles of clothing and aspects of life originated in pagan lands. The present time divisions of hours, minutes and seconds are based on an early Babylonian system. Yet, there is no objection to a Christian's using these time divisions, for one's doing so does not involve carrying on false religious practices.

Of course, our concern is greater as regards the use of wedding rings, since this relates, not to minor secular matters, but to the marriage relationship, which the Christian rightly views as sacred before God. Really, the question is not so much whether wedding rings were first used by pagans but whether they were originally used as part of false religious practices and still retain such religious significance. As has been shown, the historical evidence does not allow for any definite conclusion on this. What does the Bible say about the use of rings?

The Bible shows that some of God's servants in the past wore rings, even ones that had special meaning attached to them. Wearing a signet ring could indicate that one had received authority to act in behalf of the ruler who owned it. (Gen. 41:42; Num. 31:50; Esther 8:2, 8; Job 42:11, 12; Luke 15:22) So, while wedding rings are not mentioned, these true worshipers clearly did not scruple against using rings for more than mere adornment. But then again, I was talking about the celebration of a satanic holiday and its rituals which are still in view of false religious practices.

 

[TruthisPower]

So, when God called them through an astronomical sign...He was being against Himself?

What are you talking about God never called them through an astronomical sign. That was clearly Satan not God. Show scriptures, as well as reasoning, to why you would state such a thing, verse, your customs to what is installed from your Hollywood idea of church teachings.

God in now way of form used These Wise men, So you are saying God knew the intentions Of King Herod before the wise men came to him, and because of this star that first lead them to King Herod rather then Jesus only in turn he sent out and had all the boys in Bethlehem and in all its districts killed, from two years of age and under. You would be able to hold God accountable for all there deaths. Clearly that was one of Satan's plot to get Jesus killed not Gods. Those men practiced magic and look at the stars for future events which God condemned.

How many of these astrologers from eastern parts brought gold and frankincense and myrrh to the child Jesus is not disclosed, there is no factual basis for the traditional notion that there were three. (Mt 2:1, 11) As astrologers, they were servants of false gods and were, wittingly or unwittingly, led by what appeared to them as a moving “star.” They alerted Herod to the fact that the king of the Jews had been born, and Herod, in turn sought to have Jesus killed. The plot, however failed. God intervened and proved superior to the demon gods of the astrologers, so instead of returning to Herod, the astrologers headed home another way after being given “divine warning in a dream.” Mt 2:2, 12.

So, an angel came to Joseph and Marry and had them flee out of the city because of Gods lack of security that could lead them to harm? clearly that isn't so. God does not use pagan worshipers through an astronomical sign and then give a divine warning in a dream only to result in so much deaths.

 

[RedTent]

this is always a issue as the holiday season comes to be. the truth is Christ-Mas was created by the Church to combat pagan holidays

That isn't so according to the writings of Origen, Clement, and Constantine written way back when this was set up as our tradition. They said it was set up because Jews were such terrible people that anything they did had to be wrong, so they would set up something different. The only holidays, feasts, and celebrations not Jewish they knew about were those they grew up with and saw around them--ones celebrating idols. So they converted them to a celebration of the new God they were using, now.

 

[Lynx]

That's... some indictment there, claiming the star the wise men followed was put there by satan. Why would satan guide the wise men to Jesus? And if they were satanic, why in the world would they be wanting to find Jesus to give Him gifts in the first place?

 

[TruthisPower]

That's... some indictment there, claiming the star the wise men followed was put there by satan. Why would satan guide the wise men to Jesus? And if they were satanic, why in the world would they be wanting to find Jesus to give Him gifts in the first place?

Exactly my point! Satan (STAR) would guide them to King Herod First, before that moving star that no one else seen moved over to where Jesus was stationed at of the time. Why not go straight to Jesus? only in result where babies were ordered to be killed.

Do you not understand that these men were seekers of the future, they most likely studied all aspect of literature and spirit mediums to understand the prophesy that was told of a "king to be born", other then that How would they know of it, if they didn't read or hear of this prophesy before hand.

Just because they were not true worshipers, does not give them a neglect in what is Divine. That's why Jesus said you cant serve two masters in which people till this day still do. People can be of God and Satan at the same time but Jesus said you would hate one more then the other. Just because one does evil like Paul, who killed Christians does not make the person evil because Jesus would have not chosen him to become one of his followers. These men were doers of evil but still wanted to see future events come true if false or not.

That star was not from God maybe you can read the scriptures again and see that nothing good came from this star that the men were following. Gifts are only given to Kings as a custom not because they wanted to. These scholars of the sky are intrigued by major events,they were not true worshiper of God

 

[TruthisPower]

Satan wanted Jesus Killed so he lead the wise men to king Herod, where he could have the boy's 2 and under executed. Why would God do such a thing? Clearly that is a wrong concept that the star was from God, only good comes from God, not murder of innocent blood.

 

[ELECT]

Exactly my point! Satan (STAR) would guide them to King Herod First, before that moving star that no one else seen moved over to where Jesus was stationed at of the time. Why not go straight to Jesus? only in result where babies were ordered to be killed.

Do you not understand that these men were seekers of the future, they most likely studied all aspect of literature and spirit mediums to understand the prophesy that was told of a "king to be born", other then that How would they know of it, if they didn't read or hear of this prophesy before hand.

Just because they were not true worshipers, does not give them a neglect in what is Divine. That's why Jesus said you cant serve two masters in which people till this day still do. People can be of God and Satan at the same time but Jesus said you would hate one more then the other. Just because one does evil like Paul, who killed Christians does not make the person evil because Jesus would have not chosen him to become one of his followers. These men were doers of evil but still wanted to see future events come true if false or not.

That star was not from God maybe you can read the scriptures again and see that nothing good came from this star that the men were following. Gifts are only given to Kings as a custom not because they wanted to. These scholars of the sky are intrigued by major events,they were not true worshiper of God

please provide scripture that says they were not worshipers of God thank you


The star was from God

 

[Lynx]

TruthisPower that was a fulfillment of prophecy. Jeremiah 31:15, remember? And it was quoted by Matthew himself in Matthew 2:18, and Matthew specifically stated it was so the prophecy might be fulfilled.

In fact the whole thing was according to prophecy. Matthew also says that Joseph and Mary fled to Egypt to fulfill the prophecy. They fled because Herod was out to get them.

And if the wise men were evil, why would they have any regard for the warning of an angel? The angel didn't threaten them, the angel warned them not to go tell Herod. If they had been satanic they would have said (loose paraphrasing here) "Oh goody goody gumdrops, let's go tell Herod right now before that angel can get us!"

 

[RedTent]

Exactly my point! Satan (STAR) would guide them to King Herod First, before that moving star that no one else seen moved over to where Jesus was stationed at of the time. Why not go straight to Jesus? only in result where babies were ordered to be killed.

Do you not understand that these men were seekers of the future, they most likely studied all aspect of literature and spirit mediums to understand the prophesy that was told of a "king to be born", other then that How would they know of it, if they didn't read or hear of this prophesy before hand.

Just because they were not true worshipers, does not give them a neglect in what is Divine. That's why Jesus said you cant serve two masters in which people till this day still do. People can be of God and Satan at the same time but Jesus said you would hate one more then the other. Just because one does evil like Paul, who killed Christians does not make the person evil because Jesus would have not chosen him to become one of his followers. These men were doers of evil but still wanted to see future events come true if false or not.

That star was not from God maybe you can read the scriptures again and see that nothing good came from this star that the men were following. Gifts are only given to Kings as a custom not because they wanted to. These scholars of the sky are intrigued by major events,they were not true worshiper of God

Do you really think that Satan has the power to guide the stars rather than the creator of the stars?

I don't think all these big reasons are from a mind that humbly sits before the Lord and listens. It is done with a mind proud of its ability to think things through on its own, thank you. Needs no help from the Lord. There are wonderful uses for a mind like yours, it is a good mind, but not good for absorbing scripture truth.

 

[TruthisPower]

please provide scripture that says they were not worshipers of God thank you
(Deuteronomy 18:10)There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer,

these men practice divination clearly then they were not worshipers of God, sorry to burst your bubble

The star was from God

So your saying God is responsible for all the children dieing by King Herod. How can you think of such thing about God? Because if your right thats what you are saying no matter which way you wanna look at it. Come on, I'm not bashing you but that false teaching needs to be exposed.

In the original Greek, the Bible calls them neither kings nor wise men. They were magi, or astrologers. They were evidently practicers of the pagan art of divination based on the stars. The Bible record reveals neither the names nor the number of those visitors.When did those men visit? Not when Jesus was a baby in a manger. The Gospel writer Matthew says: “When they went into the house they saw the young child with Mary its mother.” (Matthew 2:11) Note that Jesus was no longer a newborn baby, but a “young child.” Mary and Joseph were no longer spending nights in a stable, rather they were by then living in a house.

Your saying God sent that “star” to lead the astrologers? Religious leaders commonly teach that God sent the “star.” Did he really? Remember, the “star” did not first lead those astrologers to Bethlehem. Rather, it led them to King Herod in Jerusalem. They revealed Jesus existence to that jealous and powerful murderer and even gave him strong reason for hating the child who was to become “king of the Jews.” (Matthew 2:2) Craftily, Herod told them to report back to him on the precise location of this child, claiming that he wanted to honor it as well. The “star” then led the astrologers to Joseph and Mary. So the astrologers were on a course that would have doomed the young child had God not intervened. Happily, he did intervene. So enraged was Herod when the astrologers did not report back to him that he ordered all the male children two years of age and younger in and around Bethlehem to be killed at Matthew 2:16.

God later referred to Jesus as “my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.” (Matthew 3:17) Consider: Would that loving, righteous Father select pagan astrologers,practicers of an occult art forbidden in his Law as his messengers? (Deuteronomy 18:10) Would he use a star to lead them to the most dangerous and powerful murderer in the land, bearing a message sure to inflame Herod's jealous hatred? Would God then use the same star and astrologers to reveal the spot where his helpless son lay? Who, then sent the starlike object? Well, who had the greatest interest in seeing the child Jesus put to death, preventing him from growing up and fulfilling his mission on earth? Who seeks to mislead people and promotes lies, violence, and slaughter? Jesus himself identified the liar and the father of the lie, the one who was a manslayer when he began which is Satan the Devil John 8:44.

 

[TruthisPower]

Do you really think that Satan has the power to guide the stars rather than the creator of the stars?

I don't think all these big reasons are from a mind that humbly sits before the Lord and listens. It is done with a mind proud of its ability to think things through on its own, thank you. Needs no help from the Lord. There are wonderful uses for a mind like yours, it is a good mind, but not good for absorbing scripture truth.

First off, no one else seen the Star-like object and most likely it wasn't a real star but an image that they were seeing. Stars dont move that anyways.

 

[TruthisPower]

TruthisPower that was a fulfillment of prophecy. Jeremiah 31:15, remember? And it was quoted by Matthew himself in Matthew 2:18, and Matthew specifically stated it was so the prophecy might be fulfilled.

In fact the whole thing was according to prophecy. Matthew also says that Joseph and Mary fled to Egypt to fulfill the prophecy. They fled because Herod was out to get them.

And if the wise men were evil, why would they have any regard for the warning of an angel? The angel didn't threaten them, the angel warned them not to go tell Herod. If they had been satanic they would have said (loose paraphrasing here) "Oh goody goody gumdrops, let's go tell Herod right now before that angel can get us!"

So if it was a prophecy for them to flee the land because King Herod wanting to kill baby Jesus, then it was God's fault for them fleeing as well as making sure the Magi men did not go back to king Herod that resulted in the death of children. So you can rightly blame God for this terrible act, in which case he was the cause of it all. How does one put a human life over the other?

See you need to read the story again. There was no angel that warned them but God gave them a dream that showed them probably, why, they wouldn't want to go back to king Herod because of the warning of what could happen to them, if they did. Your loose paraphrasing is not reasonable, because what ever they saw in that dream prevented them from going back to king Herod. God might have struck them dead before that got a chance to tell, who knows, but they were afraid because they all had the same dream while they were sleeping (assuming they were sleeping verse given that they had a vision) but they must have talked among themselves about the dream when they decided not to go back tell the King.

 

[elf3]

I guess my family is really messed then if Christmas is so bad...we watch the movie "A Christmas Story" year round. And we still have lights up from last year (easier to just keep them up).

Awe man we are so messed...what can we do, what can we do!!!!

 

[Word_Swordsman]

God promised Israel in Joel 2:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.

Peter referred to Joel at Pentecost in Acts, linking that prophet to the New Covenant so whatever he passed on also must apply through the ages through the Church.

The cankerworm represents destruction by the enemies of Israel, i.e. those against Israel in those days. The same enemy behind such enemies is Satan. It is Satan who took every opportunity then, and now, to cheat the people of God out of joy, rob us of victory and celebration of the magnificent gift of God, our Lord Jesus. It is impossible that anyone can use the Bible to prohibit celebration of that. God sent angels to announce the birth of Jesus, with unbelievable fanfare. Men of earth witnessing the event did so. We also ought to do no less.

My family has taken the celebration of the birth of Jesus back from Satan. We do many things pertaining to the celebration. It is not at all linked to paganism. From my earliest childhood memory I have retained the same genre. My family of wife, children, and grandchildren include use an evergreen tree as a focal point because that the only type of pleasant natural structure available in our area at that time of year. Above it I hang a lighted (LED) star hanging from the ceiling over the sweet smelling tree. At the top of the tree are arranged a host of angels. Below them are other heavenly beings like cherubs, scrolls of scripture. Below them then are layers of other Bible characters and reminders. At the base is a nativity scene. Whenever we are all together we go through the Bible Christmas story and discuss the ornaments, what they mean, and add new ornaments as the children feel important. The lights represent the overall scene over Bethlehem that night.

Please someone tell me what sin there is in that. Our grandchildren will soon pull out the ornaments and tell the significance of each before hanging them, delighting in all that. There is no other time of year that fits. The middle of August doesn't fit well. December 25 does. It fits because there is agreement among a majority of Christians.

Instead of demeaning a precious event. join in and reclaim your joy.

 

[Lynx]

elf3 you could... hmm... what could you do?

I know! Let's all sing "O Christmas Tree" together!


Word_Swordsman that would be better, to join in and reclaim the joy... but some find it easier to kvetch. Every single year there are multiple "Christmas is eeeeevil!" threads doing just that, kvetching. It seems very popular these days.

 

[elf3]

elf3 you could... hmm... what could you do?

I know! Let's all sing "O Christmas Tree" together!


Word_Swordsman that would be better, to join in and reclaim the joy... but some find it easier to kvetch. Every single year there are multiple "Christmas is eeeeevil!" threads doing just that, kvetching. It seems very popular these days.

Lol! How about "little drummer boy" too